The Middle Ground

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  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Happy to merge with another thread if it helps keep the community going.  I read in a few others, e.g. sub 3h15 but don't post there as I'm not on for marathons.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hi WJH, good to hear from you. Sounds like you have had a lot on. Just take it slowly and be patient and things will return.

    Sounds sensible, Andrew.

    I've tried following the p and d thread before but found it just moved too fast, and as I wasn't following a p and d schedule wasn't entirely relevant. Perhaps if I venture a little further into the forums there is a sub 3 mara thread I could follow, as that would be quite relevant to me.

    Leg feels much better today after a complete rest yesterday and quite a bit of home treatment over the last few days.

  • DT: Sub 3 thread (under Spring marathons section) is one of the best!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, thanks, just had a read back over a few pages. It looks a bit high end with the posters more those that can comfortably run a sub 3 as opposed to those endeavouring to do so. Might have a look at the 3.15 thread.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Another 4 easy miles tonight, came out marginally quicker than yesterday at 8:28 pace even with holding myself back in places. Just within the very bottom end of my easy pace range! Rest tomorrow.
  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭
    Thanks all - yes I will stick around and need anything to motivate me at the moment. The less you do the less likely you are to get out there. That’s how it is with me anyway. Needing someone in at all times to cover phones during work doesn’t help my lunchtimes either as it’s unpredictable each day - something which helped in my previous job which was very different on that front. 

    I will be moving from Winchester to Eastleigh, Alehouse. Not too far from the 10k route actually (about a mile from the start / finish areas) but will be able to incorporate many new interesting routes which will help the motivation. 

    Keep up the good work all I will let you know how it’s all going but as noted, don’t think there will be much progress until moving has been dealt with.  
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Churned out 6 miles today at approx 8.45 pace. Bit quick but felt ok, until the last half a mile or so. Guess it has just been a few weeks since I did as far as 6, so legs just need to get used to it again.

    Couple of days off, then 10k plan starts on Wednesday night.

    How is the leg doing DT?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Troublesome, Andrew. Had physio yesterday morning then did 5 miles at 8.30mm yesterday evening. Felt stuff but much improved. Want out for a longer run today but immediately sore. I persevered for 5 slow miles but decided there was more to lose than gain from continuing. I've some more physio tomorrow.

    Last week wasn't a complete right off. I still ran 30 miles and spun twice which coming off a race Sunday is ok. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Hope the physio can improve matters. Is it a case of a few days rest might help?


  • > @Curly45 said:
    > So I've been thinking for a little while that there's not really a thread on here for people who train hard (5-6 days a week) and write their own schedules, but are still at the beginning of their running journey relatively speaking and are testing what things work best for them over months and years.
    >
    > Surely it cant just be me? 
    >
    > So I thought a place to share ideas might be good - I love to lurk on the Sub 3 Thread for example, but I'm not currently training for a marathon and I'm a lot slower than sub 3!
    >
    > An idea I'm currently testing:
    >
    > WP - wall pace - marathon pace + 25%, or the pace you drop to when you hit the wall, this then becomes your easy run pace so you arent putting the body under stress on easy runs.
    >
    > An idea I've tested in the past:
    >
    > back to back hard sessions (i.e. over successive days) - this worked really well for me in terms of times, but it did leave me very tired and prone to injury.
    >
    >  So who's testing what and why? I'll do a fuller intro to my aims a bit later, but for now I'm off out for a run.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Currently averaging 20km per week, not bad on top of the other stuff I'm doing.  

    7.5k when I went out yesterday, slow pace and felt tough but then I am in the third week of block.  Recovery week next week to look forward to.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Struggling here with a heavy head cold, so not been sleeping great the last couple of night. Not sure what to do about running tonight. Was planning a tempo run, but think this might be a bit foolhardy?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hi Luisben- I look forward to hearing more....

    Andrew, the main issue for me doing tempo runs when ill is the results are always disappointing. I personally wouldn't try and do one beyond mara pace.

    No running for me still. Leg is improving and continuing with bike work and strength stuff and trying to get weight back down post xmas. Physio again tomorrow which will hopefully be enough to push recovery on to a fixed status.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    I didn't bother with a run at all, I suspected it might set me back and prove counterproductive.

    So I will do an easy paced run this afternoon and then hopefully feel good enough by tomorrow to complete an intervals session.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Lunch intervals 8x400m run at 1m24s per interval - roughly 5.35mm pace (the loop is more like 410m).  I dropped it to 1m22 for the last 2 intervals, guess I had a bit more in reserve.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    JGav, that is very quick.

    For comparison, Daniels recommends interval times of 1.34 for 400m intervals for runners at 19.59 for a 5k standard (your target).

    Doing reps in 1.24 equates to being able to run a 5k in 18:00!

    Don't overdo it!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Probably sensible, Andrew.

    Jgav- How long was the recovery? When I do 400s I do them at 1.19-1.21 off 60-90 seconds and that feels quite challenging come reps 6 onwards.

    Heavy threshold session on the spin bike over lunchtime. I am quite enjoying focusing on bike work for a bit, albeit it is much less convenient than just going out for a run.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    @AndrewD one of my 2018 targets is a 39:59 10k with a 19:59 5k.  I suspect I'm in shape to hit the 5k target soon but the 10k target is a big stretch.

    @DT19 target was 60 seconds static, however I was running with a slower guy (1.40 is intervals) so I ended up with around 75 seconds.  It is a tough session and my plan is to work up to 10 reps by Spring.  

    The other session I like is 400/800.  400m with 60 seconds then 800m on 90 seconds.  The 800s always feel hard but the 400s which are run only slightly quicker feel so short in comparison.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Fair enough. A session I like is a pyramid of 400, 600, 800, 1000, 800, 600, 400. It's a nice mix of different efforts. 

    I've always found that if I'm 19.30 or below at 5k, then I'm in sub 40 shape. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Did my 5 miles easy paced today. Felt ok.

    Planning 6x400 off 60 secs static tomorrow myself, by coincidence. Pace will be closer to 6:30mm (or 1.38-1.40 per rep) though.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I went out last night for an easy run, mainly because I had physio this morning so I wanted to be able to give decent information as to what hurt where. Last few days I have been feeling much improved so whilst I wasn't expecting it to be good, I was expecting an improvement. Despite all the treatment, rest, stretch, rolling, anti inflams, icing etc within 500m it was extremely uncomfortable, worse than it has been so turned around.

    Had I not done that run I would have got there today and told him it was much improved so it was a worthwhile exercise. Some more treatment this morning and no firm diagnosis beyond muscular issues and the advice to lay off it for another week.

    Frustrating, however I don't think I need to panic re London goals just yet as I ran a marathon in October and have maintained my mileage through to last week. If this is still going on into February however then I will need to revise things. 3 weeks is a fair amount of time though. In the interim I will continue with higher intensity bike work and strength classes.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Shame @DT19 3 weeks out isn't the end of the world but will make you reconsider the training plan.  Hope it improves soon.

    On the sub20/sub40 question, I am waiting until it warms up slightly and will find a race to test and see where we are at.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Hope the rest sorts you out DT.

    6x400 session completed last night. First 2 reps were on pace, next 2 were too fast and consequently felt awful, but I rallied and the last 2 reps were nicely on pace and felt ok.

    Day off today.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good session, Andrew.

    So physio Friday seems to have had a positive response. Some on going home treatment on my part and there has been a big improvement. Basically up until Friday if I loaded my left leg by say leading with it on a stair climb id get a reaction in hip and groin. Now i get no issue at all walking or putting pressure through it. I think I'll stay off it this week and then hope I can get back to it.

    I ran for 10 minutes on treadmill today and there was still some stiffness but nothing major. I'd rather lose the time now than be half arsed all through Feb and March. 

    I've also quite enjoyed breaking things up and targeting bike work. I did a sufferfest today being 2 x 20 mins at threshold. I've done about 4 threshold sessions this week. It's so much easier to hammer bike sessions than it is with running. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a promising development DT. I hate bike work whenever I've tried it in the gym, so rather you than me!

    6.5 miles long run last night, in 1:00:11 so right about in the correct pace zone (think it works out to about 9.15m/m).

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    9 miles yesterday at 8.45mm (see I'm trying to do miles for you guys).

    This week is a recovery week, and much needed as everything feels really fatigued right now.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    another 1 mile last night outdoors. Was easier than the treadmill. No adverse reaction though was a little stiff in the hip at end. 2 miles today which felt better than last nights 1 mile.

    Hoping to have this nailed in the next week or so.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    @DT19 Congrats, keep taking those steps and you'll be back before you realise it.

    I had an urge to run fast at lunch so did 4k in 17min for an average of 160bpm (made it to mid 170s at the end).  I hit high 180s and low 190s in intervals, so lots of headroom there.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Nice work both.

    I am in my usual two day hiatus at the start of each week, and am looking forward to getting out there tomorrow night. Interval session planned.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Got out last night before the storm and did my intervals session. Same as last week, but 8 reps rather than 6. Felt sooooo much easier than the week before, which is an additional benefit of being less full of cold than last week! Was more restrained too, and kept all reps within 6.25-6.40m/m with no outliers at 6m/m pace this time!
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