The Middle Ground

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  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    A shame as Trafford is quick! Easier to do Wolverhampton half!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Disastrous attempt at first 20 of the campaign... felt tired by 3 ... by 4, I decided 12 would be enough ... by 5 I had turned around to make it 10 ... by 7 I had stopped. Walked the last 3. 

    I am clearly infected nh something as I just had no energy. Off to Devon today, so will revisit running in a few days when I feel better.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Given my running targets are to get to 40 mins for 10k (pb is 43.40 from June 2017) and as far under 95mins for HM as possible (pb is 98.xx) what pace should I aim to run my long runs at?
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Sounds like you made the right choice to bin it off early Dan - hope it is nothing too bad and you're recovered soon.

    Good 10k there DT!

    I didn't get to run on Friday in the end, due to thunderstorms. Then played cricket Saturday. Did manage to get out yesterday afternoon for an easy 4 miler.

    Really need to start stepping things up again soon. I have been ticking over for the past 2 months, but need to ramp things up now if I am to stand a chance of being in pb shape by the autumn races.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Sounds horrible, Dr Dan. I hate it when that happens.

    JGAV, as slow as you feel you need to. I did 15 yesterday at 7.57 average. Very rarely does my long run drop into 7.xxmm. If I am tired and not feeling it I have no problem running my long run at 8.30mm. Generally I aim for and gravitate towards 8mm. Running it at 7.30mm wont add to my fitness but may well be fast enough to aggravate something or to leave me with unnecessary residual fatigue going into the next week. 

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    hmm @DT19 I would agree with you, a friend who is a handy marathon runner tried telling me that I should be hitting 7.45s which sounded too fast for a long one.  That sounds like a decent 15 miler!

    @Dr.Dan always listen to your body, sensible to not push on and risk injury.

    @AndrewD cricket season nearly over and you can become a runner again.  None of that 22 yard spring nonsense.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    JGav: I use http://www.bane.info/

    If you put in a recent race (even a virtual dream race!) such as 20 minutes for 5k it will give you a range of paces, such as 8:15 to 9:20 per mile. Much of course will depend on the terrain you are running on, the weather etc. Slow is the new fast!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Based on Saturdays 10k time that calculator tells me 7.41-8.41mm for my long run which is right where I run them. I don't think you should be doing them faster than 8mm.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    JGav - yep, only 5 weeks to go!

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Was going to run commute the 22k into the office this morning, work up to howling winds and rain lashing down so turned the alarm off and went back to sleep.  It must have died down soon after because when I went out later it looked like perfect running weather.  Annoyed I missed out.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I got up at 7.30 and did 3.5 miles. It looked like it had been raining through the night but it was sunny and fresh.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Went for a little lunch run instead to keep the legs moving, will try get a longer one in tomorrow.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Went out to do one of my normal hill 9 mile routes and decided to follow a footpath I've run past several times and never gone down.  It cut off a bit of distance but was a long uphill round farmland and beautiful if a little uneven underfoot.  Glad I did it, love running trails and it really does work some different muscles.  Total of 7.5 miles
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Yes, it is nice when you discover a new route on an easy or long run (not so sensible to be adventurous on a tempo or intervals run!).

    Well things seem to be warming up nicely again! Think tonight's run will be bearable (especially at 8pm) but Thursday and Friday could be a bit unpleasant to say the least!

    Just looking at autumn race options. I want to do the same 10k that I did last November as my target race, to gauge how things have improved (or quite likely, not improved) over the year. This is the Chelmsford 10k on 18 November (date not confirmed, but it is always that equivalent weekend).

    Options for warm up races are:

    21 October - Leigh-on-Sea 10k

    28 October - Thurrock 10k

    4 November - Billericay 10k.

    Any thoughts on whether it is sensible to just do one of those as a warm up, and which week would fit in best with training and tapering do you think?

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    AndrewD said:

    Yes, it is nice when you discover a new route on an easy or long run (not so sensible to be adventurous on a tempo or intervals run!).

    Well things seem to be warming up nicely again! Think tonight's run will be bearable (especially at 8pm) but Thursday and Friday could be a bit unpleasant to say the least!

    Just looking at autumn race options. I want to do the same 10k that I did last November as my target race, to gauge how things have improved (or quite likely, not improved) over the year. This is the Chelmsford 10k on 18 November (date not confirmed, but it is always that equivalent weekend).

    Options for warm up races are:

    21 October - Leigh-on-Sea 10k

    28 October - Thurrock 10k

    4 November - Billericay 10k.

    Any thoughts on whether it is sensible to just do one of those as a warm up, and which week would fit in best with training and tapering do you think?

    Yes, never deviate routes when on a session, I can barely think of anything when I'm pushing hard.  On long runs, it's nice to meander.  Breaks up the monotony.

    As for tapering and warm up races.  For a 10k, I'm not sure how much taper you really need, it will depend on your training load.  I'd race back to back weekends as you can recover pretty quickly from a hard 10k.  Just taper for 3 days before the race.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good running j-gav. I am generally quite regimented in that I plan a route and distance and don't like moving away from it mid run.

    Andrew, like with halfs, I think there is benefit in running 10k's in blocks of 2. I am left from Saturday feeling like I could have got more, however as I spent much of the race running between 6-6.05mm I was waiting on a blow up. I now know that wasn't a crazy pace and I can push harder.

     It depends what time you have to run races, however i'd be inclined to race 21st and 04th November. That'll get you into the right mindset and you'll know what you have in you. Personally, if conditions are good on 04th and you feel good I would take that as a target. By the 18th you might have a cold or it might be atrocious conditions.

    I've been training hard this week as family all went on holiday on Monday. I'll be joining them tomorrow. Hoping to get a 20 miler in tonight. It's warm but at least the cloud cover is there currently. I've also been hitting the sleep with 8.5 to 9 hours a night these last 3, which is a luxury!

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    8.5+ hours sleep a night is a luxury indeed.  I am pleased to get 7.5 at the moment, bearing in mind I struggle on less than 7.  20 miler - not for me yet

    8km lunch run round Green Park, ran the final 1500 at threshold pace or slightly faster, averaged 3.57m/km (6.21mm) and it felt pretty comfortable.  34km for the week so far and building consistent distance nicely.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    @AndrewD Just though I'd say that I'm off to Lords tonight to see Middlesex v Sussex in the Vitality Blast.  Taking my Dad for his birthday.  My colleague's husband is a MCCC member but I didn't sort it out in time for him to take us to the members areas.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    good Going, JGav. hope the cricket went well. 

    I did a very slow 20 last night. sun came out late afternoon to make it harder for me. Went out at 7, sun went down at half way then home by 10. 

    Up at 8 got recovery 5k and now about to board a flight to lanzarote. 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    12k hilly run this morning to round off my biggest run volume week to date, total of 52k.  Still building volume, so pretty happy with that even if my calves didn't like the hilly route I picked.  Need a recovery day tomorrow, so maybe just 4 flat miles.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Ran a slow 5k at lunch today.  Calves feeling really delicate...I remember how it felt before one blew up on a run last year.  I'm wondering if I've increased weekly distance too quickly and I should take a day off running tomorrow and aim for a 40k - 45k week this week.  Really don't want to lose weeks to a full on calf strain.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a sensible plan JGav.

    I am seriously suffering from a bad case of CBA at the moment!! I think the heat is just too much for me to even consider running most days, so I am still only ticking over at 10 miles a week (more or less). Desperately need the summer to end!

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Took a couple of days off in the end, was just so tired and couldn't get on top of it.  Went back out today, a glorious damp and cool run (can't believe I just said that), for just under 5miles in 35 minutes all in zone 3, so pretty comfortable.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    edited August 2018

    Well it's not much to shout about, but after doing nothing all week so far (again) I did manage to get out for 3 miles last night and they actually felt quite good. Progression in the mile paces too from 8.30 to 8 to 7.30m/m. Was lovely running in cold, damp conditions too!

    Need to get out again this afternoon, hopefully for 5 miles at an easy pace.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    well done guys. I'm envious of your conditions given I'm still in 30c. normally I cherish the holiday conditions but when we have had so much sun in UK in ready for autumnal weather. I've run 4 of 8 days, no more than 6 miles but at a decent tempo. Needed this break though as work and training been mad last few months. 

    Raring to go when home now. 
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Morning all! I have been under canvas for a couple of weeks, so off the interweb radar. Mixed bag from me ... no cycle commuting but did manage some running. Mostly it was very hot, so tough going. I bagged my first 20 miler, although pretty slow pace. I did an easy parkrun Sat (23 ish) and then raced a hilly 5 miler Sun ... almost 2 min slower than 2016 but at least I collected some point for the club champs. I have a 5K race Wed night, so just bike commuting planned until then.

    Back to work ... new post-holiday regime in place for eating/drinking, as I'm at 13 stone.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Well, I did manage the 5 miler on Friday which felt good, but then couldn't get out for any run yesterday.

    Must start a new regime for running this week, starting tonight!!

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Well, step one achieved - 4 easy miles tonight at 9m/m
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    well done, Andrew.

    just got home. travelling from airport I got my gfa acceptance e mail.....in by 15 seconds. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Well done DT! I assume that you will definitely be taking up your place? When will the marathon training start again?

    Was out last night, but looking to get out for a run tonight and also tomorrow and Friday.
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