• Ooh it's getting interesting now image Ha ha. No offence taken, just some mild mannered fun for a Thursday afternoon.

    I do favour the rehabilitation of offenders, as in the long run it's actually far cheaper than the effects of re-offending, however, i'm happy for there to be gaps in the law for when RW forumites are accosted image

  • Those cars look mighty messy, cheiffy. At what speed is that?
    40 MPH.
  • I would have taken the number plate and reported them!
  • I agree with JayVee.

    BTW - no punishment has a deterrent effect and it appears no punishment reforms the character if what I've been hearing is anything to go by.

    Watched a Michael Caine film recently - will have to find out what it is called. 'bout an old man living in a high rise.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVOSfHFNlcI
  • 1. Incapacitation: A criminal in prison cannot commit crimes while imprisoned. --- yup that works, expensive but effective while they are there

    2. Deterrence: The threat of punishment deters people from engaging in illegal acts.  --- LOL punishment such as what...?  Lets look at the alternatives to custody.. probation - a doddle, community service - a doddle, fines - a joke....

    3. Restitution: A crimonal is required to take some action to at least partially return the victim to the the state they were before the crime.  ---  compensation?? - often never paid or pathetic amounts as most are on benefits, works when you're talking about scrubbing off some graffiti... meaningless when you look at dwelling burglaries, severe violence etc - you can't just 'make good'

    4. Retribution: The criminal harmed society; therefore society (or the direct victims) is entitled to inflict harm in return.  ---  also referred to as 'just deserts'

    5. Rehabilitation: The punishment changes the criminal in order to make him a better citizen afterwards.  ---  re-offending rates suggest that doesn't actually happen


    I studied a similar module many moons ago in Uni....  and then I worked as a Probation Officer for a few years...  believe me the theory and reality are not the same.

  • Grace Reeman wrote (see)
    I would have taken the number plate and reported them!
    Yeah did that.  Nothing happens when there are no witnesses.  Unless you're lucky and you have a witness or they do it right in front of CCTV, nothing happens.  Burden of proof is on you not them.  image
  • PhilPub wrote (see)
    Where's that list from?  Are you saying that the court believes "an eye for an eye" (number 4) is as important a principle as the others?


    I think some of the current references are in here.

    and a good overview of the historical philosophies of punishment http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/punishment/

  • Grace Reeman wrote (see)
    I would have taken the number plate and reported them!

    Im personally a great believer in carma.
    I consider myself lucky to have a friend, who due to his occupation has the ability to obtain addresses from number plates which permits carma to visit such deliquent individuals should the need arise  . image

  • Nam wrote (see)
    4. Retribution: The criminal harmed society; therefore society (or the direct victims) is entitled to inflict harm in return.  ---  also referred to as 'just deserts'
    As has been said, fines are very rarely paid and the victim ends up with a lot of hassle for nothing in return. I think there's alot to be said for going into the criminal's property and taking 'goods to the vaule of' and selling them at public auction. At the moment, and this will probably remain the case forever, in the vast majority of cases the criminal does not suffer in any way whatsoever.
  • Hi all.

     It is an interesting thread.

    I fully understand the "chin 'em" brigade, because I belong to the same group. I have also been unfortunate enough to have been cauhgt in a few situations which have invloved yours truly being attacked and having to chin them or helping an innocent bystander when they have been accosted and having to have a bit of wrestle.

    I don't think many people appreciate the personal repercussions involved with "having a go". They are most unpleasant. For example having been attacked by a drunk lunatic and having him attempt to punch me I hit a corker of a right cross to his eyebrow which at first rendered him unconcious. My first instinct was I killed him. I don't wish that feeling on anyone. Once he recovered (to my huge relief) and the police had cleared him away. He was faced with the prospect of losing the eyesight in one eye and me being charged with afray. Not a pleasant experience.

    A second example was when I stepped in to help a fellow citizen in the middle of the day when he was attacked by a drugged out, very big, recently released convict (so the police explained to me after). The end result after a little bit of a wrassle was that the druggy had his nose broken and I was covered in his blood. Again I don't wish upon any law abiding citizen the experience of having to get tested regularly for HIV simply for helping out a person who was the victim of a random attack.

    My point is this. It is all well and good to want to get a bit of your own back. But it always invloves repercussions and most of the time they aren't very nice.

    The law and the authorities need to do a better job of protecting those who abide by the rules.

    As for those who think that writing down the number plate would have resulted in anything significant being done, really don't know how the system works (or doesn't work)

    With my rant done I wish all a very happy weekend and many gob free miles of running.

  • I think what it comes down to is that the victim deserves some, what shall I call it, satisfaction.  This involves the criminal receiving more than equal financial, physical and mental distress.

    Unfortunately the way things are now you have to go and get your own satisfaction.

  • Very good point Moraghan. The unfortunate reality is that so often when you go to get your own "satisfaction" you end up getting a poisoned chalice. 
  • I'm no advocate of the death penalty nor vigilantyism.... and I don't have any answers but what I do know is that the non-custodial criminal penalties of probation orders, community service orders, conditional discharges, fines etc etc. are a joke.  They impose nearly no limits on personal freedom and the consequences for non-compliance are basically non-existant. 
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