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People who walk the Marathon
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Why do people join clubs? Is it for
* motivation? What if I am a single-minded ba*tard who doesn't need it?
* company (of other runners)? What if I enjoy running on my own?
* advice (from coach perhaps)? what if I can get by by reading, doing my own research, and asking you good people?! You're not going to hold this against me are you?!?!?
More importantly, what if it is NOT convenient for me to join a club, because I do ALL my running first thing in the morning?
Secondly, why should I be compelled to do an X number of races? What if I don't like racing that often (which I don't)? I enjoy training and I therefore train as often (usually 5 times a week) and as hard as I possibly can. I have just come back froma gruelling run. Am I less of a runner because I didn't race today, like some of you are doing? Running is a hobby which I enjoy very much and which brings me a number of benefits. I am happy to go by the rules in terms of entry reqs to races and such like, but I'd hate it if people suddenly started saying that my efforts alone are not good enough.
Staying with races, I fail to see why it is so important that race Y takes place. It takes place if there are enough entrants, and it doesn't if there aren't. So, what is the problem?
Finally, I failed to understand the analogy with football. I agree with the point made about a football team, which is a fair one. But why exactly would running race Y make one more 'eligible' for a place in the FLM?!
There!
You can start shooting now, but you wouldn't hit me because I am off to a BBQ (carbo-loading after my tough run this morning!).
Have a good day.
I'd forgotten all about that corner of my childhood (I was, of course, always in the thick of the battle) until I read the end of Wayfarer's post.
Don't sling his mudballs for him until he comes back, folks ;-)
Staying with the football analogy, if we all supported the big teams, then it would be a worse sport, less variety, fewer places for players to learn their trade and the sport would wither and die.
The same with athletics. No grassroots (the local races) would eventually lead to no FLM. Where do you think Paula Radcliffe started?
Would all you gloryhunters (getting into my stride now) who just want to turn up and waltz (go buddy go) into FLM ahead of club runners want to do so unless you'd been inspired by her, or even the amazing story of Chris Carriss, the 1st British male home?
The top and the grassroots feed into each other.
That's why people join clubs.
That's why people race on weekends apart from big events.
That's why people far less selfish than myself give up their time to coach youngsters, organise and marshal races and keep the sport going.
Final point Wayfarer, no-one said you have to join a club. You say you don't like racing. Well you don't have to do the FLM do you (it is a running race after all)? You can leave that place for someone who does enjoy racing.
I love a good argument.
(Well you started it - No I didn't - yes you did - well you're arguing now - no I'm not I'm contradicting you) etc.etc.
Enjoy your bbq!
BR, I agreed with the point about football, so let’s leave that aside.
I don’t know where Paula R started and I don’t particularly care. Paula R and I and live in different worlds. She’s a professional athlete and I am not. And if you want to know the brief story behind my running, then this is it. I gave up smoking just under 3 years ago and wanted to take on a challenge. The FLM was the thing that came up at about midnight in a pub, while under heavy influence!
Anyway, I believe we have two different issues going on here:
a)if you’re saying that without the existence of clubs and local races this country wouldn’t be able to produce elite athletes, you may be right. I am not going to argue that point since it’s not something I’ve thought about all that much.
b)if you’re saying that you need to join a club in order to run/compete in an event like the London marathon, then I am saying you are wrong. I don’t belong to a club and yet I have come in the top 5% or so in this year’s FLM. And I am bloody happy with that. Not only that but I fully intend to improve on my time at next year’s FLM!
As for racing, I think my own words were ‘I don’t like racing all that often’ (or words to that effect), which –by implication- means I do race occasionally! And FLM is one of those events I like to be involved with.
My initial question, however, remains unanswered: does a qualifying time achieved by a club member any better than that achieved by a non-club member? If so, why?!?!?!
I, too, am in full admiration for people who give up their time to help others, be it to help young runners or to marshal races. Or, for that matter, offer help to others in any walk of life.
The BBQ was most enjoyable, thank you!
If you raced this weekend, I hope you had a good one!
On your point b. I don't mean you have to join a club to compete in the FLM. You obviously take your running seriously to achieve a top 5% finish and you do the races required to get you to that level of fitness (as Paula does).
My problem is with those people who consider that it would be a laugh to do FLM then don't train properly in winter, turn up and run maybe 6 miles at 3 hour pace then crash out, walk 3 abreast and keep good folk like yourself from achieving the goals you've sweated for all winter.
I'm not saying their place should go to a club runner or you in particular, just that it should go to someone who will do their best.
A qualifying time is a qualifying time, and well done to all who achieve it and earn their place.
BTW, maybe you run so well because you don't race that often and peak in some meaningless 9 mile race in early March like I did this year!!
Good luck
A qualifying time achieved by anyone is a fine. However, if places are up for grabs in the marathon then the club runner should get first shout for the simple reason he is supporting the grass roots of running!
Not all clubs are welcoming if you are slow
Re attached/unattached - I know of a lot of runners who have joined a club just to try and get an FLM place through the club draw. Others join purely to get the discount on entry fees.
If a runner wants to remain 'unattached' that is fine and there should be no discrimination at all. I am a member of 4 running clubs!! Why, I don't train with them, but I like to keep in contact with them, meet now and then, talk running, and it is nice in a race to feel part of a team.
Why don't you join RRC? No club nights, so no need to worry about going to training nights. Newsletters 3 or 4 a year (can't remember) and a great Endurance directory which gives you all the details of races, (mostly above 20 miles)for the whole year. The directory gives you more details of each of the races than an entry form or advert does. It's like my bible, and plan my whole year's racing from it.
Also lots of walking events that are open to runners too, so doesn't matter if you want to walk or run.
Dublin Marathon is a running event, but welcomes walkers too.
At 29 i had no running back round at all.My only reason was to run London.Luckly i was eccepted 1 year after starting running.Right from the start though i felt if you are going to do something do it properly.
What annoys me is people who literally turn up on the day with next to no training,just to walk round mess about just to say i ran London!!
So why not have more of those type of places so people who have entered a marathon for the first time and have trained seriously aren't held up by buckets, caterpillars and horses?
Perhaps even a half marathon GFA time of sub 1-25 would get more serious runners away from the day trippers.
You think what you like.
So if i see a panda in my way good for them - my time is not as important as what they do for others
BTW, I personally have no gripes with the way FLM was organised this year. It was my first one and a fantastic experience throughout. I'm just trying to sympathise with some of the concerns raised here.
This could easily be done as people would have to declare on entry forms whether they intended to race or just do it for fun.
This isn't to say that all those who raise money have to start with the charity/fun runners only if their intention is to do the marathon for fun.
So you might have to try and do it by time as well
And there should be the facility to drop back on the day, if training hasnt gone well
You did not have to spend the first half of the race weaving past people, we all just seemed to be in the correct pace, and the start was smooth and the race continued all the way like that.
I do think that over the last 4 years or so, FLM have increased the number of runners by too many, and it is the club and mid-pack runner that has suffered by being unable to have a clear and enjoyable run.
The beauty of the marathon is that we slow runners can take part in the same race as the elite, because the challenge is us against the distance, and that should never change.
But I still think a good and true marathon runner can enter a small rural marathon and run his pace on his own, without clocks and drinks at every mile, just a runner against the distance, not always having faster runners to pace him or crowds cheering you on. The loneliness of the long distance runner and all that........
Perhaps, I am slightly biased because the FLM this year was my first attempt and I guess I am still on a high. The whole experience was one I will never forget. I think we should all cherish this event for what it is NOW and the good it does in terms of raising money for charity. If runners are able to get a PB or an inexperienced runner finishes the course then that's a bonus.
Who's more worthy of a place in the marathon? An experienced runner aiming for 3.00 hours or a first timer aiming for 5.5 hours. The answer is they are both equal.
I also don't think anyone can fault the organisation of such an event. I would challenge anyone to do such a good job as they did this year. Nothing went wrong as far as I could see.
Hearing the moans and groans on the goodie bag as an example made me mad. What do people honestly expect from the day. It's not as if it was costly in entering and for such a fantastic experience, that was enough for me.
I mustn't write anymore on this thread as it gets my blood boiling.
Rant over. Chill
I agree there would have to still be time pens Hippo, but it could work. The organisers could also have a five min delay between each time band. Surely it wouldn't cause any confusion with the chips now in place.
There should be a way to suit all needs, so that everyone who enters gets out of it what they are aiming for!