Trionium Greensand Marathon 2011

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Comments

  • KATIECOM

    Thanks for the data. The Spoddimeter says -

    Your splits were 2:02:00 / 1:53:11 - highly negative and an outstanding 93% !

    Your overall mean pace was 5'35"/km.

    Your pace over the 10k up to the Tower  was 5'54"/km

    Your pace in the back half (Turn-Finish) was 5'22"/km and by the sound of it you spent a couple of minutes running backwards on Wolvens Lane, so actual pace was even betterer.

    Respeck!!

    Now tell us more about the Olympic Special.....

  • Ah, the special Picnic is being kept under wraps for a while yet... And yes, if you can run the Greensand, you can 'run' the Picnic (probably).

    Brian, perhaps I could get you to do time-keeping at half way, and then to follow them all back down again? Then you'd have a lovely big sample to crunch numbers on!

    Chip timing? About £2000 per race plus £2.50 per runner. So not likely. And besides, the runner numbers give the runners a keepsake, a place for their names so the spectators can cheer them on, a place for the map and also for the 'emergency number' - which came in useful this year. I think that chips are better in big races - not Trionium ones!
  • Rob, I'm always pleased to put on a hi-vis and shout at people. Which is why I'm banned from the library (again) I suppose.

     Katiecom mentioned PBs vs Picnic and Greensand times. I was going to do an informal survey on Sunday before the Start but somebody sent me chasing tape over the Nower. (Always happy to cycle uphill with nobody to shout at). Anyway, if you'll include a question about PBs in your entry forms or pre-match emails I'll gladly crunch the data.

    Congratulations, among other things, on your trail-marking on Sunday. I said to myself - and to anyone nearby - that you'd obviously shared the task with somebody tall, who likes a laugh. Sometimes the two of you must have been running in tandem -- your tape could be easily and painlessly collected as I ran by while your colleague's one next to it was stapled to the upper branches of mature trees. I had an especially good chuckle retrieving the tape welded to the roots of a holly growing in a gorse clump image

    Some people think that the Greensand is all about runners and fun and glorious scenery in the best country in the world -- It's actually mainly about tape in a world of prickly things image)

  • Thanks to BRM and everyone else who cleared the course of tape afterwards - it's the vital and unrecognised task after every race; without it the locals have every right to be upset at us and we'd see even more moved tape!

     I have the candidate images of those that move/ remove course markings:

    1. Angry of Tumbridge Wells, who don't realise it will be cleared away the same day (perhaps they might respond to a 'to whom it may concern message' on the tape?).
    2. People who misguidedly think they are being funny, not screwing up someone elses sport (ditto).
    3. Scumbags! ( ... perhaps exploding dye markers would help?)

    On a moderately serious note, has anyone ever caught anyone at this/ met anyone who will own up to it? If so, why do they do it?

  • OLDAND

    Rob has been studying the anti-tape people for years. He might have some specimens....

    There is a message on the tape but I imagine that people rip it down thinking that it's litter, and who reads litter?

    Somebody said that tape had been moved off route to mislead runners - Is this true? Where did it happen? Who discovered it?

    As I was driving (!) up the Ewhurst Road towards Winterfold and the Turn at about 1130 I met four or five Greensand runners coming down the hill. They'd presumably lost their way (or been misdirected) somewhere on Pitch Hill, had come onto the road below the well-marshalled crossing point and turned the wrong way. They had been hard on the heels of the race leader, who had found the correct way where they hadn't. The diversion cost them a couple of minutes at least and may have affected the outcome of the race.

  • BRM: My splits (from memory rather than Garmin) were 55, 59, 67 and 67. Thanks for your technical data,very interesting.

    My marathon PB was at Windermere in May 2008 at 3:23 but more significantly I ran Snowdonia last October in 3:35 and was in quite good shape for this marathon.

    I would have expected the second split to be quicker as I'd warmed up by then and feeling good. A couple of miles after the turn I was starting to struggle up the hills and each sinew in my legs took their turn to complain. It wasn't until Leith Hill that I recovered some momentum but it seemed painfully slow.

    To answer your earlier question, I was counting the runners coming the other way as I approached the turn and a club colleague confirmed that I was 37th when she saw me. I overtook a few runners soon after as I started to race to a higher position and any pacing strategy went out of the window.

    Maybe some of those who then overtook me had gone off course and were just regaining their rightful positions?

  • The tape - made 'specially after the first Greensand Marathon (where all the tape I had put up on my outward leg from the Tower to the turn had been taken down by the time I returned on the same route - Gah!) says 'Official race marker - please do not remove - www.trionium.com' Can't say fairer than that, can you?

    OldAnd... I think possibly it's a mix of all three, with some locals 'tidying up.'

    On one of the Midsummer Munro halfs, I was being scrutineered, when we heard that a couple of the front runners had gone off route due to tape being removed. I went along with the scrutineer to place a traffic cone at the right spot. We had placed it and were walking away when we heard a splash - some yobbos had thrown our traffic cone in the water not even one minute after having placed it.

    So maybe there is another category: 'A big boy did it and ran away.'
  • Just wanted to say a great race and a great day, had a minor argument with my knees about the pros and cons of going for it on the last quarter ( downhills normally my thing but by the time we got back to the tower it wasn't going to happen)

     Stunning race, stunning day thanks Dr Rob!!

  • The spray on the ground was a good idea. Especially as we spent the majority of the race avoiding roots, stones,  etc... and therefore looking down.

    Otherwise, even more marshals (there were plenty this year) - providing they don't also get lost looking for their marshaling points!

    Reading the RW reviews shows that you can't please everyone.

  • BRM: My splits (from memory rather than Garmin) were 55, 59, 67 and 67. Thanks for your technical data,very interesting.

    My marathon PB was at Windermere in May 2008 at 3:23 but more significantly I ran Snowdonia last October in 3:35 and was in quite good shape for this marathon.

    I would have expected the second split to be quicker as I'd warmed up by then and feeling good. A couple of miles after the turn I was starting to struggle up the hills and each sinew in my legs took their turn to complain. It wasn't until Leith Hill that I recovered some momentum but it seemed painfully slow.

    To answer your earlier question, I was counting the runners coming the other way as I approached the turn and a club colleague confirmed that I was 37th when she saw me. I overtook a few runners soon after as I started to race to a higher position and any pacing strategy went out of the window.

    Maybe some of those who then overtook me had gone off course and were just regaining their rightful positions?

  • Brilliant race. Great mix of terrain to keep us on our toes. Sadly I did take a tumble just after half way & really struggled with the 3rd quarter of the race watching my target time of 4hrs 30 slip away. Once I returned to the tower however my energy renewed & I managed to overtake a few people & believe I could crack the time. I loved hurtling down the final hill to finish in 4hrs 26.

    My splits were 64, 64, 72, 66.  In comparison my road PB London 2011 is 3hrs 46.

    Apologies to anyone who thought the marshalls were insulting them by shouting 'come on stragglers', they were actually referring to the club name on my & fellow Stragglers competitors vests.

    Thanks for a brilliant race, well organised, superbly marshalled & topped off with a full english breakfast.

  • My PB is 3.09 but back in 2007.

    Ran a 3.25 at Gloucester in January this year and 3.44 at the South Downs Marathon (comparable course) in June (ran a 3.32 there in 2009).

    Would have said that Greensand was marginally harder.

    Dr Rob - have you thought about/tried getting sponsorship? High5, Lucazade, 9bar etc to offset some of the costs? Given the success of your "Trionium" brand I would have thought someone would like to be associated with your events.

  • Thanks Sean... I have had some offers, but to be honest, I just don't like the concept of sponsorship. It makes me feel dirty!
  • Total respect for that Dr Rob - sponsorship means endless bags of paper and unwanted bumf.  Your race sold out - why spoil a great and good thing?
  • I'm with Katiecom, It's nice not to get a bag full of paper and the Trionium races are well worth it for the race and the atmosphere!!!

  • Fair play, but was thinking more on the lines of getting a cash injection (for chip timing?) or to reduce entry fees or give more money to charity. Gels and Isotonic drinks at feeding stations?

    2.09 Events seems to have got it pretty much worked out with Salomon etc (apart from the horrible cotton t-shirts they gave out this year at the South Downs)

    No, not suggesting giving out horrible carrier bags at the end with 2 Tetley Teabags (others are available), a single Fishermans Friend and a mini bottle of Fairy Liquid! Hell no!

  • Many thanks to all for the new data. The Spoddimeter is getting up steam and will be churning out factoids and half-truths any day now.

    Just read the (few) complaints in the RW Event Ratings. I wonder why you'd enter a race whose conditions (ie, The Cut) you hate?

    Rob, why didn't you make it clear months before the Race that there would be a cut? Oh, you did.

    Why didn't you publish the address of Race HQ? Oh, did you? On the website? Oh.

    Well, you might at least have published a map of Dorking and the streets around race HQ. You could have called it "How to get there".
  • Preparation for the difficult tasks in life is essential.

    Know where you are going, what you have to do, to do it well and how you are going to get home afterwards.

    I thought I'd prepared quite well for the event but realised I hadn't by mile 16/17, but also I had thought the race started at 10:30!  Wouldn't that have been embarrassing! 

  • BRM

    I take it you are referring to my "complaint" in the event reviews. I entered the race because I love trail running and I train for this type of race. I knew I could run inside the cut off and had predicted i would run inside by about 6 mins in fact I was 8 min inside. The point I was trying to make is that I thought it was irresponsible toward inexperienced runners to have such a tight cut off. Someone could have got injured had they gone off faster than they should. Likewise they could have also blown out early and had to walk back prolonging things further.

    I actually had a fantastic day and ran a solid race even after beachy the day before. I didn't "hate" any part of the race.

    Surely negative feed back is as much part of reviewing as positive feed back otherwise what is the point?

  • *DILL*

    All fair points, and I apologise if it was your comments that I was mangling.

    As to inexperienced runners, I'm not convinced -- In any case, they probably wouldn't thank you for your concern, reckoning that if they're big enough they're good enough.

     I'd guess that the biggest risks to all concerned on Sunday were (1) travelling by road to the event and (2) eating a fry-up afterwards -- not running too fast up Leith Hill. Then there's (3) the drinking and (4) the bragging -- health risks inextricably associated with these events.

    The Cut wasn't imposed arbitrarily, and there is a body of experience behind it. I've swept the last two Picnics and two Greensands (all with cuts, I think), and inexperienced runners hurting themselves have not featured. You'll note that the Organiser, Slasher McCaffrey himself, experienced the Cut as well as imposing it this time. As a result he's allowed us all a further three minutes - Oh yes, Three Big Minutes. Just feel the love.

    The risky inexperience in both races, IMHO, is the lack of experience of the gruelling combination of gradients and ground, especially in the Picnic,especially the St*ps -- the ascent that dare not speak its name.

    People embarking on the Trionium races without a practice run are indeed, "ordinary people doing extraordinary things." The pressure of the Cut is not a major additional risk to these people. They are called, I think, runners.

  • STRAGGO

    Thanks for the data, which the Spoddimeter renders thus -

    Your overall splittage (Turn-Finish / Start-Turn) was 118%

    Your middle-splittage (Turn-Tower / Tower-Turn) was 114%

    Your outer-splittage (Tower-Start / Start-Tower) was 122%

    Bad news, as you say, in the fourth quarter.

    FAIRYCLOGS

    Congratulations on achieving your target time.

    Thanks for the data, which the Spoddimeter renders thus -

    Your overall splittage (Turn-Finish / Start-Turn) was 108%

    Your middle-splittage (Turn-Tower / Tower-Turn) was 113%

    Your outer-splittage (Tower-Start / Start-Tower) was 103%

    The third quarter was pay-back for the first half, by the look of it? Did you run positive or negative split at London 2011?

  • So... When does entry open for next year?
  • Next year, in the spring. Everyone who entered this year and in previous races will be emailed when it opens!

    73 minutes to the cut-off!
  • Oh my god - only 51 weeks until next year's race.

    Time to start training again.

    Dr Rob - please if possible, avoid the same date as The Cabbage Patch 10 which could lose you a few runners/marshals.

  • BRM

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Ran a positive split in London. 5.09 to 5.19 min/km for 1st half & 5.29 to 5.38 in 2nd resulting in a 1.50 1st half & 1.56 2nd. Was really gutted as I was hoping for 3.45 but still a PB by 2 mins. Must learn to start slower!

    Looking forward to the Hankley Halloween Hustle tomorrow  & then a well deserved rest having run 7 marathons & a 50k ultra in 8 months.

    2012  Bring it on. Determined to beat my Picnic time now I know the true horrors of the course assuming Dr Rob doesn't add too many more hills to his Olympic special !!!!!

  • CLOGGO

    Difficult to run 1st half of London appropriately slowly because it's downhill?

    A quick look at the times of the first 25 runners in London 2011 shows universal positive splittery, of something like 1-5 minutes.

    More talk of Olympic Special, more meaningful silence from The Organiser.

  • yes.... i get a feeling the olympic special will not allow us to improve our times!  i sense bigger, steeper and longer hills!  maybe with a pit of fire at the bottom? 
  • Olympic Special? It won't be shorter/easier/less steep!

    Apart from that, I ain't saying nuffink wivvout my solicitor.

    The 4th Greensand Marathon is scheduled to take place on 21 October 2012 (an immovable date)... you takes yer choice!
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