Money Money Money

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  • I think the issues with Mr 3x earner run a lot deeper and the money side is just a reflection.  It does sound a little bit like he generally calls the shots and she puts up with everything in order to 'keep' him.  She is often upset at work about things he's done or said, so I think the money is only a small part of the whole story.

    My parent's arrangements were that dad was for most part the main bread winner, but a bit useless with reading, writing & organising so mum would deal with all the bills.  It was her responsibility to balance the books.  Dad had 'pocket money'.  Mum never spent anything just on herself, despite my dad often encouraging her.  For a few years when she did have a job she'd somethimes buy herself a little something.  I wonder if she felt when she wasn't working the income was family money rather than any of it also 'hers'? 

    I have recently thought how complicated it all gets when two people get together who maybe have different equity in their respective homes, or different debts still to pay etc.  I'm still paying stuff off from 6 years at Uni as I never had a grant, but I'd never think this should be anyone else's responsibility than mine... unless he won the lottery or something.  LOL

  • Agree.

    Also being married or just living together.

    Very interesting, thanks Nam.

    image

  • Nam wrote (see)

    I kind of felt a bit sorry for my younger female colleague.  They live in quite a big place and her 50% contribution to the cost of living costs kind of leave her with very little spare but barely make a dent in his account.

    I think I would feel a bit sad if my partner earned 3x what I take home, but would feel aggrieved at contributing a bit more.

    But having said that, her boyfriend's argument is that he paid his way through Uni etc, works long hours, why should he pay more than half? 

    That sounds like someone who is house-sharing, not life-sharing.

  • "Younger male colleague, newly married, 2 incomes, each have seperate bank accounts for their respective wages and a joint account they put money into for mortgage and bills.  Both pay the same towards house and but they earn more or less the same. "

    Our arrangement has always been similar to this, at times when we're both in work, although it used to be that hubby was earning more than I was, so he contributed a little more towards the mortgage and bills - more recently I was out-earning him so it swung slightly the other way and what I put in was greater.

    The idea of the 50/50 contribution arrangement when one partner earns a lot less than the other seems harsh to me - with us, the agreement is that we contribute what we can towards what's needed for mortgage, house, bills etc as near as equally given what's affordable from each salary, and anything else is our own. 

    At the moment hubby is out of work, but still has some redundancy money in savings which he's putting into the joint pot when needed, but my earnings are covering most things (or at least they are for the time being - fingers crossed our situation changes soon, though... image).

    But in the past, he was supporting me when I took a full year out of work to go back to uni.  It's a matter of give and take, and we don't 'log' the number of times one supports the other or vice versa.  It's a marriage.  It's accepted that we support each other in times of need.

    Both of us trust each other and don't worry about 'permissions' - we're both incredibly sensible with money because we've both been horribly, traumatically ripped off by previous partners and have learnt from the experience.

    Different models work for different people.  We're both good with money, although we weren't in the past.

    But I know from the personal experiences of some my colleagues that sometimes one person needs to exert control.  One lady I work with keeps her money separate these days - they live in rented accommodation despite the fact she actually owns a house separately that she rents out, because her husband managed to lose their house and a whole load of other joint assets when his business went bankrupt, and he still hasn't learned his lesson.

    He's hardly earning a thing now and they're mainly living off my colleague's fairly low administrator's salary, and yet he is still living beyond his means and thinking he's entitled to own and maintain a really expensive Merc despite the fact they're struggling to afford Christmas presents for their grandson.

    I can completely understand in her case why she'd want to keep some control of her own money.

    That's aside from the fact that there are all sorts of *other* reasons for me wondering why they're still married... image

  • I agree, Wilkie, especially as it doesn't seem to be working from the partner's point of view.

    We've been married for 26 years, joint current account, savings account, mortgage and credit card (which just happens to be in my name). MS does have a seperate business account, which is fair enough. He earns a little more than me (but works many more hours) but I didn't work for 6 months when I had SlugBoy and MS had a period of redundancy so the balance has swung both ways in the time we've been together.

    MS is better with figures and also more organised than me so he tends to deal with the finances. We're lucky enough to be reasonably comfortable now, but things were not always thus! There are times when I wished I had a bit of money that didn't have to be accounted for (like when buying pressies etc) but never get rouind to actually doing anything about it! Anyway, then we'd have to start defining exactly what should come out of that account and I could actually end up worse off.

    As he earns mainly cash (he's a cabbie), MS does tend to give me my spending money for the week (coffee, lunch with friends, minor purchases) - but I will ask for more or take it from a cashpoint if I need it.

  • Nam wrote (see)

    I think the issues with Mr 3x earner run a lot deeper and the money side is just a reflection.  It does sound a little bit like he generally calls the shots and she puts up with everything in order to 'keep' him.  She is often upset at work about things he's done or said, so I think the money is only a small part of the whole story.

    This doesn't sound like a sustainable relationship... hopefully she'll realise soon enough? Is he particularly attractive/ buy her flashy diamonds with his left over £?
  • Lady P I really like the sound of you arrangement, especially the bit about taking turns supporting each other whilst not keeping 'tabs'.  I supported someone through a PhD once and we just made do with what we had. image  I certainly never begrudged it.

    I can see though why your colleague has become cautious if he has effectively lost their livelyhood and doesn't seem to have learned his lessons.  I think I'd probably a bit angry if I were her.  image

  • We have seperate accounts, my wage pays the household bills and his pays for the shopping.  I put a set amount each month into a savings account in my name as emergency money and we have a joint savings account which we both put an equal amount into for holidays.  We have a piggy bank at home for social funds, when we remember we'll stick a tenner each in it or something but more often that not Mr CS will pay if we go out for a meal. 

    Agree with Wilkie on the house-sharing not life-sharing scenario your work colleague has going on there.  Feel a bit sorry for her, she must be taking a huge hit to the self confidence living with him.

  • Alybea wrote (see)
    This doesn't sound like a sustainable relationship... hopefully she'll realise soon enough? Is he particularly attractive/ buy her flashy diamonds with his left over £?
    Nope.  From what I see he appears to be her biggest source of stress and upset (i.e. lots of stressy mobile calls at work etc).  She would like him to come to our Christmas night out (people can bring thier OHs) but he doesn't want to.  I reckon she'll be curfewed like last year, i.e. home by ten so he doesn't get upset.  But never met him so can't say really.  She must have her reasons for staying. 
  • Nam wrote (see)

    I can see though why your colleague has become cautious if he has effectively lost their livelyhood and doesn't seem to have learned his lessons.  I think I'd probably a bit angry if I were her.  image

    That's right, Nam - there's a lot of us in our office that have to bite our tongues in response to stuff she says about the situation.  She's a highly intelligent woman, but one who seems to be constantly taken advantage of by her nearest and dearest.

    Part of the problem is that they're very religious and I don't think divorce would ever be considered an option (I must point out that I'm not slurring religion in general here; just the way this particular couple's adherence to it affects their behaviour).

    But it really doesn't sound pleasant. image

  • We have a joint account and we just take money out of it without asking the other.    This works for us but while we aren't loaded neither are we really strapped for cash - if we were then perhaps there might be some potential for conflict - which should go first her £50 hair appointments every month or my occasional carbon bike parts (obviously it should be the hair appointments).  

    At the moment she does earn a lot more than me - it used to be I earned more but I work part time now and do a lot more of the parenting so I feel I've sacrificed quite a lot and if she did decide we should have separate accounts I would see that as the end of the relationship.    It depends how a relationship has developed though - if we'd never had joint finances quite possibly I'd be fine with keeping things separate - but when you have kids and one person's career suffers more as a result then I can't really see how you can say this is my money and this is your money - it's family money as she couldn't be working til 6 every night and then disappear to running club and tai chi three nights a week if I wasn't picking the kids up, feeding them, making sure homework is done, guinea pigs are fed etc.     At the same time I couldn't afford to live very well on what I earn and without her income I'd; have to go full time and with the kids I'd have absolutely no time to myself to train or anything else - it would be work, kids, sleep.  

  • Up until we had kids we had seperate accounts but as I earnt more I paid all the bills. Once we had kids my account became a joint account as MrsG stopped work. After a few years of this I started transferring to her account money for food, clothes, kids stuff etc day to day stuff. Initially she was a bit peeved and thought I was implying she spent too much but it was only so I could track spending better and try and start saving - also meant I didn't have to be told about everything spent. She also has a credit card that is paid by me and is thankfully very restrained with!

    As for being no good with money it's not difficult really ie don't spend more than you have! Took me a while to learn and proper budgetting has really helped me

  • Quite simple really.

    Hers is hers.

    Mine is ours. image

  • When I was married, we did have a joint account but only I paid into it. Everything the ex-Mrs Muttley (note the "ex") earned stayed in her account. I never knew how much she earned. I paid all the bills, mortgage etc, childcare when needed, everything bar petrol for the car. After a while I tired of this and set up my own sole accounts, still paying for everything of course. Despite that, guess who got the lion's share when I finally gave her the sack.

    As skotty says - what's mine is mine, what's his is ours. image

  • Lord P and I like having our own accounts as well as the joint one.

    As mentioned, we were both ripped off - in my case, my previous boyfriend and I just had the one account, and he spent all the money and brought us into huge debts despite being on the dole, me being the only one working and everything being in my name.

    This person took advantage of me at a time when I was suffering a pretty horrible bout of mental illness and therefore not exactly in command of everything going on.

    I narrowly avoided court proceedings for not paying council tax and rent because said boyfriend had lied to me and told me he was going to the council office to pay it each week when he wasn't.  He was even hiding the summons with my name on them (along with every other item of post - I must have looked such an idiot complaining to Royal Mail that we weren't receiving our post) "so as not to worry me". image

    Luckily the council were very understanding when they accepted how genuinely unaware I'd been, and how shocked and traumatised I was when I found out.  On that occasion, my parents bailed me out to pay off the debts, I paid them back eventually and had to accept that that money was gone forever, and I'll never make the same mistake ever again. image

  • I'm married. 

    We have separate accounts and always will. 

    OH pays the mortgage (and the Council Tax as he gets free travel with his job) I pay all the other bills.

    Simple but it works.

  • Lady P it's horrible when that happens, especially when it's so bad that it really risks your own livelyhood.  I've been there, having to think of a proper rescue package to save my house etc and I'd hate to be there ever again.  My OH has also been 'stung' similarly before, so I think we make a real effort to show each other that no one wants to take advantage at the expense of the other.  Because we don't live with each other there's weekend travelling involved.  Because I prefer to go up to his (he's allergic to my cat!) I have the travelling costs, but then when I get there he takes me for a nice meal and pays for everything on the weekend so it all balances out... not that anyone keeps tabs.  He's spent hours fixing my knackered little car etc and after a particularly costly car fixing session I owed him a bit of money... which gives me palpitations and I paid it back within seconds of getting paid.  LOL I just don't like owing anyone other than a bank.  It's the same with other friends.

    I think, going back to what Nick said about how things were done in the olden days, people now come into relationships sometimes a little older, with their own property, maybe their own debt, having always managed their own finances.  Whereas years ago when people got married very young, all those big things like house buying happend jointly.

  • Yes that must make a difference if you already have your own property.  Me my partner have been together since we were young so we never really had any property other than her Vespa 90 and my Lambretta  - in fact I can remember picking her up from school on it !    Sixth form before anyone asks - and I'm only one year older than her.  
  • Devoted2Distance wrote (see)

    My sister's ex-boyfriend was very generous with his money... he appeared to pay for everything.

    Then they split up and he revealed a spreadsheet he'd kept over the 6 years they were together with every expense she'd tallied up!

    Conniving.

    Did he send her a bill when they split up?
  • image Actually I'm more concerned about the fact that he appears to have gone into a relationship meticulously planning for the day it ended.

    That's not just cold, it's bordering on psychopathic image

  • Screamapillar wrote (see
    )

    image Actually I'm more concerned about the fact that he appears to have gone into a relationship meticulously planning for the day it ended.

    That's not just cold, it's bordering on psychopathic image

    I agree, that's frightening. How much detail did it go it to?

    1/1/2008 - 1/3 or a mars bar 11p

    2/1/2008 - 7 chips when  you said you didn't want any.

  • Screamapillar wrote (see)

    image Actually I'm more concerned about the fact that he appears to have gone into a relationship meticulously planning for the day it ended.

    That's not just cold, it's bordering on psychopathic image

    Agreed! image
  • Alybea wrote (see)
    Screamapillar wrote (see
    )

    image Actually I'm more concerned about the fact that he appears to have gone into a relationship meticulously planning for the day it ended.

    That's not just cold, it's bordering on psychopathic image

    I agree, that's frightening. How much detail did it go it to?

    1/1/2008 - 1/3 or a mars bar 11p

    2/1/2008 - 7 chips when  you said you didn't want any.

    Did he also allow for inflation? image
  • Screamapillar wrote (see)

    image Actually I'm more concerned about the fact that he appears to have gone into a relationship meticulously planning for the day it ended.

    That's not just cold, it's bordering on psychopathic image


    "Before I fall in love,
    I’m preparing to leave her"

     - R Williams

  • Married 23 years. Always had separate bank accounts

    That way we can spend out money without worrying, Separate Savings as well.

     She does have another credit card on my account and fuel for the car and shopping goes on that. She has her own credit card for personal expenditure etc

    Bills we divide up amongst us. I pay most as earn more but not all. She always had the phone bill because when her parents were alive she talked to her mum several times a week. My view was always, you pay the bill and no need for you or me to worry how much it is.

     Its just never been an issue. We are close without needing to follow each others spending down to statement level. Having said that she knows where my bank statements are and can look at them if she wants to. I tend to handle most of the financial side of things but again all the investments are in the same drawer and totally available to her if she wants to took and them and we always see the Financial adviser together.

    Wouldn't work for everybody I guess but arguably the most important financial decision you ever make is your choice of partner image

  • Nam wrote (see)

    I kind of felt a bit sorry for my younger female colleague.  They live in quite a big place and her 50% contribution to the cost of living costs kind of leave her with very little spare but barely make a dent in his account.

    I think I would feel a bit sad if my partner earned 3x what I take home, but would feel aggrieved at contributing a bit more.

    But having said that, her boyfriend's argument is that he paid his way through Uni etc, works long hours, why should he pay more than half? 

    I have pondered about what Nick was saying about the change away from the traditional joint bank account.  Does anyone feel that to insist on keeping your financial affairs seperate is somehow refecting a lack of committment to the relationship?

    I think my ideal scenario would be own accounts and a joint one with 50:50 contributions, but then we earn about the same and while I do earn a little less if you consider his perks, I do want to be seen to be pulling my weight?  I have always had my own money and I think the scenario I would personally struggle with most is if I had no income and felt I wasn't contributing.


    we had a joint account when we got to gether but also kept our own accounts as my husband didn't like the idea of buying me presents out of our joint money...........

    we paid the same into it as we were earning the same............

    I then gave up work to have kids so My contribution ended and he had to double his.............i didn't feel bad that i couldn't contribute as I felt that we had a partnership that meant that my non paid work was as vital as his...................

    I have always had an icome into my account from part time job or something so that my own account always had some secrets and he always kept the balabce from his wages,................just gave a bit of seperate independence........................although we both use the joint account when and how we want to...................although this only works as neither of us will run up debts

  • My wife and i have a joint bank account what we both pay the same amount into and this account pays the gas, lecky, council tax, food and morgage etc. 

    But it does not pay for my wifes clothes and make up etc she buys them her self, i buy my own clothes and ANYTHING our gorgeous daughter needs........as well as i pay for everything if we go out for the night, holidays etc and even fuel in the car i pay for (i only drive it on a sunday and its always empty).

    I love it and so does my wife and it suits us fineimage

  • M.ister W wrote (see)
    Torque Steer wrote (see)
    M.ister W wrote (see)
    Say you're married to someone who isn't good with money but is wonderful in every other way.  Would you trust them with the finances?  Marriage isn't about sharing equally.  It's about working to your strengths and allowing your partner to work to his or hers.


    So the dominant partner always gets his/her own way?? Good way to the divorce courts.

    What's this thing about being good with money? You don't have it, you don't spend it. When you do have it you spend carefully on what is needed. It ain't rocket science - or economicsimage!!

    Actually I withdraw that last remark - it's a lot more sensible than economics..................


    You live in some sort of dream world where no-one gets into debt and people only spend what they earn.  Yes, that's how I behave but it certainly isn't how everyone behaves and you're stupid if you think they do.

    It's not about one partner being dominant.  It's about recognising that some people aren't good at some things.  There's stuff I'm not good at so I'm happy for Pink to do those things.  Equally, there are things Pink isn't good at so I do them.


    Actually I live and work in a harsh reality world where stupidity is frowned on quite severely.
    it has been interesting watching tales unfold of how past experiences have coloured one's perception of current life and I can sympathise with those who have gone through those difficulties.
    Attitudes to debt are certainly different now but it is perhaps time, if the lessons have not been learned already over the last couple of years, for people to take a more conservative approach to debt and finance generally

    As JeremyG said
    As for being no good with money it's not difficult really ie don't spend more than you have! Took me a while to learn and proper budgetting has really helped me

    It is nearly the time of year for Mr Micawber ........................................

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