Lakeland Trails Marathon

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  • Just how essential do you think proper trail running shoes will be for this course? I was hoping to wear my ordinary running shoes, which got me round the Sheffield half marathon without as much as a blister yesterday, and are currently serving me proud.

    That said, though, if trail shoes are going to be essential then I need to get them soonish and break them in. I've had a look at the course walk-through on the website and it seems to be mainly pretty well-made paths, is this the case?

    Thank you!

  • I would advise having trail shoes available for all of these events.

    It's certainly true that the majority of the route will be on fairly well established and graded paths and its also true that if we have another long dry spell then much of the ground is going to be pretty firm - allowing folk to get away with road shoes. 

    BUT

    There are also going to be some long uneven stretches, many areas covered in loose stones and gravel, some grassy areas and possibly a stream crossing or two.  There are also large areas of the Lake District that never truly dry out.  Decent grip from shoes is always important in the hills.  Add to that the unlikelihood of another dry spell and trail shoes start to become essential.  I certainly wouldn't have enjoyed Hawkshead on Saturday in road shoes.

  • I was only thinking today whether I would get away with road shoes on this.  I did Cartmel in Trail shoes with no problems which was as well, as I had toyed with the idea of running in Mudclaws after reading how boggy it can get. 

    So thanks for the tip CumbriAndy, save for a drought at the time of the race, I'll be doing it in my trail shoes.

    20 miles on the road on Saturday took a lot out of the old knees, so I'll be dropping down to about 10 or 12 next weekend, then back up to 18 or so on soft ground and probably do no more long distance on the roads until after the race.  It's getting near peeps! 

  • Thanks for the tips - I'll be getting myself some trail shoes, in that case.

    Am looking forward to this with a mixture of excitement and abject fear. I think it's going to be extremely hard work for my first marathon...!

  • I entered this in haste and don't own a pair of trail shoes and can't afford any till pay day. Then I'm going to have to find some suitable terrain to train in. Anyone know of anywhere near to North Liverpool / Ormskirk? Or if there is a database or website with info on? Is it wise to train on the road in trail shoes? 

     I'm still definately going and am excited about doing this, as CumbriAndy said, the slower I go, the more I can enjoy the views image

  • Stretching my knowledge now so please don't take this as gospel.  Trail shoes vary between manufacturers and the description covers a wide range of styles from what are basically rugged road shoes to something close to a minimal fell racer - your local running shop should be able to advise on what is best for you; I'm not going to try.  As I understand it, the key differences between road and trail shoes are

    - Usually less cushioning in the trail shoe - which means they absorb less impact shock when running on hard surfaces, like roads
    - Usually less durable rubber on the soles of trail shoes - which means that hard surfaces, like roads, wear them out quicker

    So, while you can run roads wearing trail shoes its not really what they were designed for - better to get off-road if you can. 

    In terms of places to run off-road North Liverpool/Ormskirk, I've even less idea - I was raised on the Sefton coast but wasn't running at the time - when I go down there to see the folks I usually run on the beach and in the woods between Formby and Southport.  Alternatively, what's the tow path along the canal like?  You're obviously going to struggle for hill work without travelling.  Again, I'd expect your local running shop (Yellow Pages) or club to have some suggestions.

    Hope some of that is helpful.

  • Cheers for the advice. I hadn't thought of the canal. Only 5 mins jog from mine.

    The marathon training going ok. 18 Miles lsr last week, but did the Manchester 10k yesterday so my mileage is down. Up at 430am tomorrow to fit in a 6 mile easy run before my 12 hour shift in work. image
  • Hi

    Race information on the Lakeland Trail website advises carrying at least 2L of water for the race. I guess this can only realistically be achieved with a Camelbak.

    Does anyone have a view on this? I have a waist belt that carries 1L of water, but don't own a Camelbak. Ideally I don't want to waste money on a Camelbak, which I will seldom use, unless the race really does need it!
  • don't understand why they dont have plenty of waterstations

    what exactly is the £40 for? 'free' tshirts and medals image
  • i dont have a camelback and hate wearing rucksack/carrying bottles anyway.

    in July it could easily be 25 degrees and they 4 water stations!


    also, 'accurately measured by GPS' thats not accurate at all.
  • I'm also really worried about the water situation.

    When I first signed up for the race - which will be my first marathon, so nerve-wracking anyway! - the website said there would be water and nutrition stations and I was quite happy with that.

    I hate carrying a rucksack when I run, but will definitely need at least the recommended two litres as I tend to drink so much water on the long runs -especially when it's hot. On the Sheffield half marathon it was a really hot, muggy day and I was thirsty at every water station.

    I've never tried a camelback and don't want to buy one if this will be the only time I use it. Perhaps the situation won't be as worrying for the fastest runners but, for those of us who will be out there for around five hours, water is going to be a real issue.

    I'd go as far to say that I wouldn't have signed up if I'd known I'd have to carry two litres of water - it's an extra worry that I really don't need on my first marathon.

    Any advice??

  • Hi all

    I too was surprised to read the bit about 'recommended carrying two litres of water/energy drink'.......then they go on to say they have 4 water stations........errrrm, I doubt I have ever drank as much as 2 litres over marathon distance image. I certainly wont be carrying a hydration pack........but I will carry my regular 250ml bottle of coca cola (my stomach doesnt 'get on' with energy drinks image), and a couple of gels in a gel belt. Anyone would think we were climbing the bloody Himalyas the way their website goes on image.....it is supposed to be a 'supported' marathon on a well made trail, or at least that is what it was being sold as originally image. Personally I think they are just covering their backs with all this advice.........

    Jennifer - if you are worried about the hydration issue, make sure you drink extra water in the week build up to the race, and dont touch any alcohol.....but dont drink tooooooo much water, ie dont drink so much you drown in the stuff image.

  • It would be interesting to know if they are handing out cups of water or bottles. At least with bottles you can carry them between water stations. If its a hot day then carrying a hydration pack in a rucksack or waist pack might be a good idea. It would also be a good idea to try everything on a training run to see if you can run ok.
  • 4 water stations offering cups isnt a lot for a normal marathon nevermind a trail one in the middle of the summer. i usually take about 3 hours but anticipating taking about 4, wont be an issue if weather is ok but ifs a hot day a drink station every 10km isnt enough imo

    i know they pay mountain rescue to marshall but other than profit i cant see what the entry fee has gone on. surely the difference between a long run and race like this (which almost certainly wont be a pb) is the support you receive?



  • Just checked back on their website - they are definitely saying its cups.

    I'm not a big drinker on runs and can get by on very little if necessary, but I know not everyone is like that and in the heat I agree it can become an issue.

    Personally I'm really looking forward to this event and dont want to turn this into a moan, but I do feel there has been an element of mis-selling going on, if you compare what was initially on the website and what they are now saying in the provisional final notes.

    For instance, nothing was mentioned about full body cover in the entry details, now it says it may be compulsory to carry this if the weather is bad. Understandable if you are on a fell race yes (I am in the Fell Runners Assoc), but this is not how this race has been sold. A little more transparency from the start on the part of the organisers would have enabled people to make more informed choices about taking part, and what things they would need to purchase before doing so.

    Thats my rant over, can't wait to get on with the race image.

  • does anyone know the elevation profile? I cant imagine we will climb that high like some fell races where the weather can change quite quickly,hence the need for full body cover. Also the terrain doesnt look like open fell/mountainside,more like through forest territory.

  • Hi everyone

    I just found this thread. I'm doing this as my first ever marathon. Feeling very nervous and I'm not quite where I want to be with training. Missed two long runs last month because of crazy work deadlines, but I managed 20 miles round the peak district yesterday, although it took 4 hours and I felt awful at the end.

    I'll be delighted with sub-5 hours but really worried about the long flat bit at the end - I don't like running on the flat.

    I entered the route on the walkjogrun website to get a profile, but it only came out at 22.5 miles. Has anyone checked the distance on the map on the website? I can't figure out where I went wrong.

  • Just a word of warning guys. 

    You would be verry badly advised to atempt this even without a camelback.  The greatest risk to your health in an event like this comes from dehydration.  If the event happens takes place on a hot day, and you are going seven miles between water stations without water, the concequences could be more dangerous than uncomfortable. 

  • Camelbacks are fine to run marathon distance with just have a little practice if first time so u know what might rub where. It's commonsense to b prepared and don't rely on others for your welfare. For three years on the trot the Edinburgh marathon has failed to supply adequate water to participants and that's a big marathon!

    Best tip, hold the water bladder upside down and suck out air that way no sloshing around!

    See u at the start and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a cool cloudy day.
  • Hi all

    Personally the water issue doesnt bother me, I will carry what drinks I know I need. I think their website information is giving out mixed messages, and has from the start, about what this event will be like. But reading between the lines I think what they are saying regarding water is they won't be giving out tonnes of it........I think they are trying to avoid the edinburgh type situations where people take 2 bottles, tip one over their head and take a sip from the next then chuck it away, leaving the slower people with nothing.

    As for dehydration - I would say Dont Panic!! image On longer ultra races like WHW they have had more people pulled off the course for medical complications due to hypnotraemia than dehydration. In fact I dont think they have ever had a single case of dehydration on that event (which takes place in June, and involves much harsher terrain than this race).

    Vicky - the measurement issue is a bit concerning. There had been talk of a longer loop around one of the tarns (Beacon Tarn? I dunno) as the original route crossed an SSSI and they wanted to avoid that, so maybe that is where the discrepancy lies?

  • Tigerspaw-

    I would urge caution on the water issue. 

    The Compton Downland Challenge provides water every five miles.  It was 25 celsius this year, and I downed the best part of a 1.5 liter bladder between the last two checkpoints, and was still dehydrated.  Water is always verry well suplied at Comrades, and it isn't realy any hotter than a British summer day, yet people still end up on saline drips.  Not to dismiss overhydration as a medical risk in its own right.  It absolutely is. 

    The bottom line is that if the event organisers are telling you to bring two liters of water, then that is a prety darn compeling argument for bringing two liters of water.  If they have told you to do it, and you come to greif through dismissing their advice, then there is realy only going to be one person to blame. 

  • Yes Ben - and I think that is why they are saying it - for legal reasons to obsolve themselves of any blame should the worse happen.

    they are not 'telling us' they are 'advising us'.....

    and that as I said in earlier posts is my problem with the way this has been set out from the start.

    They should have made it clear on the original entry if there was going to be a compulsory kit list, ie you have to carry 2l of water minimum, full waterproof body cover, a hat and gloves.

    To spring this on people a month before the event I think is very unfair and misleading.

  • The water thing is simple and straightforward - they will get as much water as they can to the points on the route they can reach and will provide it is such a manner as to minimise littering of the National Park.  That means cups at the four road crossings.  There are long stretches which cannot be reached (except perhaps by heliccopter) so each runner needs to take their own additional supplies - personally, I can't see a need for two litres unless it really is baking hot but we've been given plenty of advance notice (the provisional details have been on the website for at least a month) to get our options sorted.

    The question of wet weather kit is also simple and straightforward - we're going out onto the fells where the weather may be cold, wet and windy and where evacuation of an injured runner could take a significant period of time  - while the organisers have ultimate responsibility for safety, we also have a responsibility to look after ourselves. Being in a position to take suitable kit if conditions dictate its necessity is an entirely sensible precaution.  Reminding us that we may need that kit is also both sensible and responsible.

    As far as the route is concerned, I know through conversations with the Race Director, that they've been negotiating with various bodies and have only recently been able to agree access to a few points on the proposed route.  It will be as accurate to 26.2 miles as they can manage with available technology.

    I have no concerns whatsoever about the organisation of this event - my only problem is the ankle I twisted at Staveley on Saturday and the training I won't be able to do over the next month.

  • It only says "so in adverse weather conditions, taking with you a cagoule, over trousers, hat and gloves may be compulsory." So unless the weather is really bad for June it wont be compulsory to lug all this gear with you.

    Even so, I used think that trail runners were tougher than us road runners, but it looks like they are a bunch of wusses, waterproof trousers indeed! image

  • imageimage

    It will be an experience anyway image.

    I'm taking 'everything', then I can decide on the morning what to wear / carry.

  • Hi All,

    I have run Lakeland Trail races for the last couple of years and have also entered the marathon (season ticket), their races are always well organised, flooded with marshals and well marked out (exception of  a problem at Cartmel this year). I agree that it is a concern about the water stations but I see no major problem I don’t think I have ever had more than 2 ltrs running a marathon (with some Nuun tabs in should be enough for anyone I would think?) but iam sure runners being runners that if anyone is running short someone will give you a drink of theirs(I would). Unsure about the kit thing though, are we really going to be that cold in July running a marathon? I think it must be due to the fact it’s the first marathon and being over precautious but iam sure they will not stop you running if you just have drink with you and wearing good running kit?

     

    If its anything like their trail race series you wont have any complaints, great tech shirt for all entry’s (not like the rubbish at some marathons), fun day for all the family and chap on a microphone announcing everyone’s name and town when you cross the line, be assured Lakeland trails defiantly know their stuff when it comes to running and I have seen first hand then scramble the helicopter and mountain rescue teams and everything always seems to be well coordinated. I am sure it will be well worth the entry fee! Good to get some donations in for the air ambulance as well a very worthy cause and essential bit of kit for all them runners/walkers in the Lakes!

    Just my thoughts anyway! image

     

    Look forward to seeing you allimage

  • Again to clarify the kit thing, as somebody who has been running the Lakeland Trails races since they started.

    The line about kit requirements in the final details has been present for every race they have ever put on.  It says, in effect, 'if the weather conditions dictate, we MAY require you to carry kit - please bring stuff with you just in case' - no more than that.  There is every possibility that we won't need it but who in their right mind is going to make that decision two months ahead of time?  From memory of over 25 Lakeland Trails events, kit has been compulsory twice and advised twice.  Both compulsory occasions were the Ullswater race in November which includes a trip into the middle of nowhere on a boat before the start and a run through country where the nearest road is miles away.  Both advisory situations involved extreme weather - one at Coniston where we had to put up with storm force winds in October and the last planned Garburn trail at Staveley where sub zero temperatures were forecast on the high pass in June.

    As for whether or not we can really be cold in July - this is the Lake District.  Over the years, I've experienced sunbathing weather in February, gale driven hail storms in August and all variants of (un)seasonableness in between.  If we get a wet day and somebody goes down on the high part of the route above Monk Coniston then there is every possibility that the sudden stop could cause them to get cold very quickly - certainly before the MRT get to them.  The kit, if we are required to take it, is primarily to deal with such situations.  Like runwithphil, I've also seen the air ambulance and the MRT in action at these events  - rarely, thankfully, I admit - and, over the years, I have spent many enjoyable days out on the hill.  It has, without fail, always been cooler stopped than while moving.

    I think Tigerspaw has exactly the right approach - take 'everything' and leave what you don't need in the car.

  • The course profile has been released:

     marathon course and elevation

    are we any wiser on the water issue?

  • Thanks for the link - looks a nice friendly profile image

    And to the water question? image

  • I can't see that water is an issue. The organisers have said where the water stations are - at road crossings.  You have to keep in mind this is a trail marathon in a rural location so, as has been pointed out, there are access issues getting water to inaccessable points on the course.  There's also the issue that people unfortunately do throw bottles away in stupid places - something that'll get races banned somewhere, sometime.

    Personally I aim to be self-sufficient.  If it's hot I'll have a camelback with anything up to 2 litres in it, if it's cold than 500 - 1000ml will do. 

    The odd cup of water etc will just be a bonus.Think about how you get around a 20 mile training run without support.  Must put Jelly Beans on my shopping list too.

    PS sorry for mixing metric with imperial, I'm from that mixed up old codgers generation image

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