Sub 3h15



  • ChimneyChimney ✭✭✭

    Evening All.

    quick history. Started running 5 years ago when I needed an operation on my shoulder from 25 years of playing front row. I've gone from training well, to Hartley training several times due to injury, family issues, work issues etc. longest race was a 40 mile along the Ridgeway, into double figures for mara's. 

    Current PB's are 22:30 for 5k 18 months ago, haven't done one since, 46 mins for 10k June 2012 again haven't done one since, 1:15 for 10m October 2011, 3:47 for mara (Snowdonia) October 2011, and the half I mentioned earlier, 1:38 a few weeks back.

    Residual, underlying, or sheer bloodimindedness fitness got me round Abo the previous weekend and Snowdon this weekend on no running for the best part of two months in respectable times, but nothing to write home about.

    Most of my running is off road, the average mileage for an uninjured week for the last few years has been 40+. I've recently moved to just outside of Chesterfield so the average ascents of my runs are now 100' per mileminimum, it's hard to find anything flatter! 

    I haven't really done much specific/structured training. I have kinda followed rough three month plans for two of my mara's, which purely co-incidentally I did well in (I said above 3:47 as a PB for mara, I did do 3:45 at Loch Ness in 2011 but as that's downhill by lots I don't count it!).

    I finally got around to stopping smoking a month ago which will help I'm sure image

    Think that just about covers it? Anything missing that would be useful to know?

    And yes I am a climber, another good reason for moving to the Peak District. The profile pic is a bit of ice climbing in Chamonix. If you want to stress your calf's try having your points barely in whilst desperately trying to find a deep enough bit of ice to get a screw in.....


    If reality matched intention I'd know I was dreaming
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Welcome to Chimney!

    Sporty Badger wrote (see)


    Work colleague wants to do intervals at the track tomorrow. He's never done them on a track before and I only did my first last week; should be interesting on tired legs.


    Do be careful doing track after a hilly effort.  It sort of goes against the hard-easy-hard rule doesn't it?  Wouldn't want to risk injuring yourself.  Any chance of doing it the day after instead? 

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Minni - I am also on Strava but have no idea what to do now I have it!

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    If you quit smoking chimney I'd suggest a new avatar image

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    MsE - totally agree. In fact, I've since slightly downgraded the session for that very reason. I'm doing a sort of pyramid session: 200 200 400 800 800 400 200 200. There will be 200m recoveries (400m at the top of the pyramid) where I make sure the HR tumbles nice and low (140-ish). BUT, I'll do the session at my colleague's pace as I know I'm a bit quicker, so I'll be holding some back.

    Almost sensible! image


  • Welcome Chimney - looks like some serious climbing there.

    I looked at strava once but wasn't sold on it at the time. Must have a look to see what routes are being run (raced?) in my neighbourhood.

    Trip to Physio and massage tonight - I thought I had seen the back of that place. Calf pain is referred from my long term hamstring troubles, so at least I know there is nothing damaged. Massage that followed was the most excruciating experienced I ever had on a massage table. Feeling battered now. Pack tomorrow and fly out Thursday.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    That's why I rarely go for a massage AR- prefer thr pain of running.

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Quick drop in, it's massive congrats for Joolska, it was inevitably going to happen and it was well deserved, what a great feeling and it doesn't diminish.

    That triumph has overshadowed an excellent run from Badbark, very impressive and again well deserved

    Nomad existence here, managed some miles on a variety of hotel treadies, getting back slowly.
  • moofmoof ✭✭✭

    Strava is a great app and I upload all my runs and rides to it. Had a fair few crowns on the running app until some new kid on the block cruelly started nicking all my segments. Did a bit of cyber stalking on power of 10 and by the looks of things I won't be getting any of my crowns back in the near future or ever. Kids, no resect.

    Jools- I see you've ordered yourself an Xempo top. I always thought they were a bit too flash....look at me! look how fast I am! Read and weep jogger! etc etc.    Anyway, mine arrived in the post today, looks nice in red.  image

    A 4 mile plod today at 8.30 pace, legs felt heavy which is unsurprising as I've been sat on my arse for the last nine days, boozing.

    Hope that calf sorts itself out AR.

    welcome back KR.

    And welcome to Chimney, well done on giving up the smokes.

  • I feel like a new commer again on here, so welcome Chimney to the thread.

    I've had a few glutes issues recently too moof due to a lot of driving (holland & back) oh and a bit of boozing too!

    Hotel treadie miles are better than no miles Poacher - just watch out for all the full english breakfasts!

    I see there are quite a few lunchtime runs being done on here today. What's peoples' views on getting the double run in, is it better to do morining run then evening run or is lunchtime then evening ok? I was thinking of introducing a Wednesday lunchtime 5 miler into the equation, then a 10 - 12 miler in the evening.

    Ventured down the Club tonight for a pleasant 7.5 miler with a few fast miles near the end.

  • This is what has been keeping me busy the past few months!

    Below is a link to my lastest venture - digital portraits. I basically draw portraits digitally as vector artwork. It's taken a while to get going and quite a few late nights! Just got a tumblr web page (a bit like a blog) at the moment, and this mostly has images of work I have done so far. I'm hoping to get a proper website done soon. Hope you like - commissions welcome!

  • Bike It - hope the leg is feeling better today.
    AR - I'm sure it's just taper madness. Hope the pain of the massage was worth it. Have a good flight.
    KR - I certainly have the greatest respect for Steve. I just don't think it would work for me.
    Jools - probably a wise move.
    SB - nice speedy hill work. As others have said, be very careful following that up with a track session.
    GM - no other races planned at the moment. Take it easy now.
    Abbers - luncthime running is certainly popular at the moment!
    Chimney - nice area to live and plenty of scope for hill work! Should put you in good stead for Snowdon.
    Hi to Poacher. Enjoy those dreadmills.
    Moof - you have thoroughly earned your rest. Recover well.
    KR - no experience of luncthime running I'm afraid, but can't see why lunchtime/evening shouldn't work. Impressed with the digital artwork. Hope things really take off.
    4 recovery miles d&d.

  • Gul, the pain was worth it. The pain in the calf is much better today after the hamstrings were beaten up. I need to understand a bit more about the body as my 4 days of digging around / massaging the calf was a complete waste of time.  This experience warns me of the dangers of rest days!

    Great vector artwork KR, and good luck with the new venture.


  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    TR, Lordshill is mostly flat & fast, certainly a lot flatter & faster than it used to be before they changed the route a few years ago! You should fly round, wind permitting, although it looks like it might be breezy again come the weekend. I should really be looking at something sub-67, given that I run the first 10 miles of an HM in just over 68, but am thinking of ditching the wtach on Sunday, running by effort and just seeing what comes out as it's a "C" race at best.

    Gul, with the exception of my weekend long run, all my training gets done at lunchtimes. I'm lucky I can get away with it.

    KR - like your new venture; very cool. Good luck with it!

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    Abbers - thanks, flat means fastish then. Same here, I'm going to push and and let the watch take care of itself. Bit early to tell accurately, but it looks like its going to be windy which will slow us a bit. Shame as I was hoping for a Gosport 1/2 pointer, although I reckon ~2mins quicker than I did at Solent 1/2 has to be do-able, on a still day at Gosport, given Solent 1/2 wa sa bit compromised..

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    Hi Chimney - I'm just over the border in S.Yorks  . . .
    how are the legs feeling, Jools?
    AR - I'll be tracking my chum at NY - what's your no?
    KR - back in the day I occasionally did morning (6 mile easy loop into work), lunchtime (6 mile fartlek), evening (3 mile direct route home) . . . .
    Unlike now - 10 steady y'day morn,  6 this a.m. feeling very sluggish  . . lovely morning, though.

  • KR, you are a talented fella. Impressed.

    Welcome Chimney!

  • Birch wrote (see)

    AR - I'll be tracking my chum at NY - what's your no? 

    Hi Birch, Number is # 1792, starting in the 9:40 wave.

    Ryan Hall dropped out so there must be a space at the front for a limey wearing a Wallace & Gromit vest. Will sharpen the elbows.

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    I’m home from Dublin and have finally sober up! Thanks for all the kind words everyone.

    I’ve a new role in work which doesn’t allow for ‘forum’ time but I’m off today so get a rare opportunity to post.

    Welcome aboard Chimney, stick around and you will learn lots from this thread. My simple advice would be to run fast (intervals and/or tempo) once or twice a week, long once a week and then run as many easy slow miles as you can fit in to your life. Near the end of one of your easy runs do about 8 x 10 second hill sprints. I’ve went from a 3:48 to 2:54 in marathon PB over 5 years of running.

    Belated happy birthday Bike it!

    GM – I always enjoy the Dublin marathon and find the support and encouragement from the Dubliners fantastic.

    Good luck on your 10 milers Abbers and TR.

    KR – I think double runs are excellent for marathon training. I don’t think there would much problem with running lunch and evening if that fits you better. You may have to run one a bit slower than normal if they are only a few hours apart. Nice link, you’re very talented!

    Dublin Marathon report –

    Over the summer I had a simple training plan of one interval session a week and either a half marathon race or 20+ mile run. All the rest of my running was at a very easy pace apart from 10 x 10 second hill sprints at the end of an easy run. As it got closer to the marathon I increased my overall mileage and added more quality into the long run.

    I raced 8 half marathons, with one every 2-3 weeks so didn’t see the need for any tempo sessions. My mileage began at about 60 miles per week and peaked at 107 a month before Dublin. I parked my car 5.5 miles away from work and ran doubles 3 or 4 times a week. I would usually add extra miles in the morning but always only ran 5.5 miles easy back to my car.

    I didn’t get any injuries, niggles or suffer any illness throughout the campaign. I changed from being a vegetarian to a whole food vegan this year which I think helps me immensely.

    I was really concerned about the weather in Dublin before the marathon but we got very lucky and dodged the worst of it. There were some strong winds and gusts at some points but I’d say it wouldn’t have cost more than a minute in total time.


  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    My plan was to run around 6:35 pace until 20 miles and hold as close to this over the last few miles as possible. The wind was forecasted to be in our faces for much of the last few miles. My ‘A’ goal was to beat the first every finishing time in a 26.2 mile marathon of 2:54:46. This was set by Dorando Pietri in the 1908 Olympics but he was later disqualified for being assisted near the end.

    I wanted to show that if I was born 100 years earlier I could have been an Olympic Champion and world record holder!image

    I felt very relaxed over the first miles but was glad to be in large group as we were in to a head wind early on. I was wearing a 2:52:45 pace band (6:35) and was happy to go through 5 miles in 32:55 which was within seconds of my band. However while cycling through displays on my watch I noticed my HR was 161 which worried me as my average HR at the VLM was only 148. I made sure never to look at my HR again!

    I continued to tick off the miles feeling relaxed and strong and went through 10 miles in 1:05:46 which had me ahead of the pace band by 10 seconds. Mile 11 was good but the next few miles were tough as we were into a head wind up a slight incline. My pace dropped to over 6:50 for these and at 15 miles was about 30 seconds down.

    Thankfully the wind was at our back now and despite another 6:50 mile due to a hill at 19 I went through 20 miles in 2:11:50 which was within seconds of my plan. I like to treat a marathon as two separate races. One race is a 20 mile steady run with the goal of trying to hit a certain time. The second race is a 10k on tired legs.

    This is where I think high mileage (90+) training really helps. With this amount of mileage you inevitable run a lot of miles on very tired legs. In my two marathons since running the higher volume I’ve found the last 10k the two easiest to complete despite running over 15 minutes faster.

    The next mile took 6:35 and then we swung round NW for the final 5 miles into the wind. I still felt strong and I knew all I needed was about 6:50 minute miles to achieve my goal. The next miles took 6:40, 6:39 and 6:50 but then the wind seemed to really pick up and I completed the 25th mile in 7:05.

    However, the last mile is a loop and well sheltered and I knew it was in the bag. I really enjoyed the crowd and atmosphere and went 6:42 before speeding up to the finish for the final 0.2 at 6:12 pace. I passed the finishing line in 2:54:07 and declared myself 1908 Olympic Champion!image

    While others were collapsing at the end I felt great and without a doubt could have run on for a few more miles. I was over the moon but slightly annoyed that I didn’t push a little harder near the end to go 2:53:xx. Typical post marathon greed!

    I intend to run some Parkrun’s and XC over the winter focusing on speed, but considering trying out an Ultra Marathon next year. There a 100k race in June that I have my eyes on!

    You can see my running profile on the link below and see that I stagnated for three years around 3:10 to 3:18 in marathons. I’ve since run a 2:56:41 at London and 2:54:07 in Dublin this year. I don’t believe I’m very talented but my recent progression has come from higher mileage training and a better diet. I’ve went from 40–70 miles a week to 60-107 with most of the extra miles at almost MP + 2 mins.

    My diet has less to do with running faster but more to do with helping me recover better and stay injury and illness free. I eat lots of fruit, veg, nuts, grains, seeds and spices.

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    Great report, Badbark, and interesting thoughts about mileage and nutrition.  I struggle with over 70mpw (in that I tend to get injured).  I am veggie.  I'd miss cheese a lot if I went vegan, but nothing else.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Sounds like an object lesson in pacing BB, allowing for the windy conditions; a last mile in 6:42 is good going. The bigger mileage clearly benefits you. Rest & recovery now image

    Nothing quite so grand to report here. 6.5 just finished with 1 w/u, 4 tempo (came out at 27:10, so ~6:48 m/m), 1.5 c/d. Felt tough too, and still coughing hard afterwards, so predictions for Sunday are being revised down to 68 mins, or possibly even no goal, just run and see what happens.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Wow Badbbark, simply wow! That's a superb time and an epic performance compared to my level. Well done.

    Did my lunchtime track session today. As I mentioned yesterday, did the pyramid of 200 200 400 800 800 400 200 200 with 200m recoveries (400 at the top) and a mile to and from the track. 6 miles in total. Held back a bit as I did a tough 6 miler over the hills yesterday and took the advice of you lot on here to be careful but still managed some quality output. I'm not particularly quick but to give you an idea the 200s were 38secs, the 400s 1.28 and 3.12 for the 800s.

    First time I've ever tried such a session, so some good markers to beat in the coming weeks.

    2 days off and then a cheeky 10 miler on Saturday.image


  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    Excellent stuff, Badbark - great racing, reporting & celebrating ! 
    Tks, AR - will look out for the W&G vest on the TV feed  . . . .

  • Great report ther badbark. Do you have a more detaield analyssi of how you do the miels in a week? I read a few longish runs but there has to be a lot more hiding in the background.


  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Excellent report, BadBark.  I have always wondered about turning vegan and would quite happily do it if I didn't have the MsEttes and MsEsq to feed.  But I feel like they are too young to be given a restricted diet quite yet even though there are obvious health benefits.  And then there is MrE, of course, wanting his pork chop for dinner.  Here in California it would be very easy to turn vegan as the variety of fruit and veg is enormous!

  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭

    Nice report Badbark.  It's quite remarkable how you've improved your performances since 2 years ago when you did your balls-out 3:09 in this race (and that's a report I'll always remember).  From the sound of it your last miles seem much easier and more controlled than a few years ago.  Sounds like you credit your high mileage for that.  I'm with Jools though and anything above 60mpw is in the danger zone for me.  Sorry you were born 105 years too late though

    A 20minute run for me this lunch time.  Yesterday was spinning and strength day so my legs are a bit stiff from various deadlift/lunge/swings/tempo spinning.  No re-occurance of the periostitus this time though after a bit of foam rollering last night. 

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Badbark - I echo what others have said and in particular Bike It. Your progression is one of note 1:21 half is shifting some. One thing I am curious about is what do you weigh now and what did you weigh then i.e. 2009? I am not thinking about going Vegan as I am a total carnivore and will never change that but some folk are adamant that a vegan diet has made the difference, Scott Jurek being the most well known.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sitting on a train reading a vegan recipe book......

  • Minni - you're the lucky one. I'm standing up squashed on a crowded train reading someone else's book!

    Great report Badbark. Like PMJ I'd love to know how you get that many miles in. 

    Just under 8 miles along the Thames this morning for me. 


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