Sub 3h15



  • Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)
    Also-ran wrote (see)

    Under Hansons I am currently running:

    84% E
    11% PMP
    5%  5K

    MP miles will increase over the weeks, 5K will drop away and substituted by LT pace.

    Hanson takes a lot from Daniels in balancing the easy with the MP and Speed, and the good thing for me is that I know the %'s I should be working too week by week, and when to mess with quality miles if I grow the Easy stuff substantially.


    As far as I can see the simple way of looking at marathon training is that you are customising your body in a particular (and somewhat extreme) manner. We all have fast twitch and slow twitch muscles. Your slow twitch are what we use for the bulk of the marathon but when they tire, we recruit fast twitch. It is a bit more complicated as there are two types of fast twitch, type 2a and type 2b. Type 2b are set in their ways but type 2a can act as either fast or slow.

    Same applies to other systems such as lungs, heart, liver (glycogen) etc.

    Once you think this way, then most plans make sense. All you have to do is convince the body it needs to rebuild itself.


    Yes agree - in the hierarchy of plans, most fall  off the Lydiard branch, and all are looking to achieve the same whether you look at muscle fibres, mitrochondria, or other aspects of physiology.  The fun ones are those that fall off a non lydiard branch and encourage you to train off 3 days running at high intensity.

    Edit: From someone who managed 2 whole weeks of Furman FIRST image

  • Nic post PMJ - seems my Pixies are on strike at the mo.

    KR - tasty session there - you bothering with Wrexham?

    Re races - I have two halfs booked, but the effort of the second one is dependant on the result of the first one.

    Minni - be sure to let us know re your alternate MP/ easy LSR as I like the sound of it!

    4 recovery last night and I felt better for them come the third mile.

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    Oh, I wasn't claiming for a moment that life in salaried land is perfect, but I guess we all tend to identify the downsides in our own working arrangements, and there are times when I would take certainty of income over flexible working arrangements.

  • Another Self-Employed/Contractor type here.

    I fell into it pretty much by accident as was made redundant in Le Crunch and needed to keep some cash coming in. To be honest I wouldn't go back - much prefer to be able to dictate a little my own hours and be my own boss. Financially it works for me too.

    In my industry, but it may not be the same everywhere, my experience is that generally there are 2 types of contractor - those who are very good, and are contractors because they can command a good rate, and those that are rubbish, and are contractors because they can't hold down job for long, thus moving between firms quickly before they "get found out"..... I'll not pass judgement to which category I fall into!....

    2miles w/u, 6m tempo, 2m w/d for me today at lunch. In PaulaR plan world, tempo refers to about MP.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Tempo in my world in unachievable... image

    On the E/MP LSR - I am developing a plan and if it works I'm going to sell it and make my million.  image

    Rest day today.  image

    Anyone on East Coast Mainline - cheap tickets for VLM weekend are released.  I'm booked.

  • I ran three marathons in 2013 between 3 hours and 9 minutes and 3 hours and 19 minutes with and average of 3 hours and 14 minutes.

    I am trying to work towards getting a sub 38 minute 10k and a sub 84 minute HM in 2014. 2013 SBs for 10k was sub 39 minutes and for HM I ran 88 minutes during a sub 3 hour and 10 minute marathon.  I will also work at improving on my sub 19 minute 5k time and try and get under 18 minutes.

    I plan on running two HM races both in August and two Marathon: June and September respectively. Run a Park Run as test run once or twice a month between March to September.

    Will increasing my current average mileage of 20 miles per week up to 40 to 50 miles per week be sufficient enough to crack 3 hours and  5 minutes in 2014?

  • Those long tempo, lactic threshold, HMP or whatever you call them are the toughest of all training runs especially when done on your own.

    Fingers- we have had a fair few of those nomadic contractors drift through my place of work over the years. Getting paid a decent wage for basically blagging it. I don't think I'd have the balls to walk into a company and say " yeah, no probs I can do that", but in reality not have a f******* clue!

    Planned 5 with some strides at lunch.
  • moof wrote (see)

    Fingers- we have had a fair few of those nomadic contractors drift through my place of work over the years. Getting paid a decent wage for basically blagging it. I don't think I'd have the balls to walk into a company and say " yeah, no probs I can do that", but in reality not have a f******* clue! 

    I think half the problem is that they don't realise that they don't have a clue and think that they are the Bees Knees - then more time is spent sorting out the mess that they create after they go!

  • Gul - You are right M stands for Medium, but I always do it midweek. Maybe it should be MMLR and the LSR should be LSSR (Long Slow Sunday Run)image

    Sub 37 for 10k is a good target 00.

    PMJ - sometimes the pixies beat me up in the night!

    AR - I am building a mental picture of you wearing lycra whilst using pink dumbells behind closed doors!

    Menn - I'm skipping Wrexham and doing the Retford Half in Nottingham instead. Which reminds me, I must enter it!

    Rest night tonight from running, but lots of work to be done at home on my computer.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Not sure about the pixies but I had very twitchy legs and feet last night and couldn't sleep for ages. I get that quite often, anyone else on here experience a similar thing? It's very annoying.

  • Impressive stuff, KR. How did you find that pace, could you maintain it for 13.1?

    I did the prescribed 10-miler this morning, in noo shooz (Saucony Triumph 10s). I decided to do the first easy and the second at nominal MP, without pushing it much as this is a recovery week. Anyway, I fpound the shoes very comfy and none of my recent foot-related issues reared their ugly heads. So av 7:24mm for the first 5M and av 6:58 for the second 5M, feeling comfortable enough. I'll take it and look forward to Sunday's 15-miler. 

  • Gerard Mooney wrote (see)

    Not sure about the pixies but I had very twitchy legs and feet last night and couldn't sleep for ages. I get that quite often, anyone else on here experience a similar thing? It's very annoying.

    I sleep badly on a normal night, but if I do intervals in an evening my sleep is much worse. I have very restless legs after those sessions. I try to do those sessions first thing in the morning in order to avoid kicking Mrs AR

  • Welcome RoadWarrior - sounds like you are within striking distance - just build the volume slowly - injury can scupper the whole thing.

    GM, I get the same thing - weird feeling

    60 mins last night inc 10min at 6:30mm pace - felt more comfortable than last week!

  • I take magnesium, calcium and vitamin E as this is supposed to stop cramps and it seems to help the itchy legs. Maybe makes the pixies happy.

    12 at lunchtime at 7:17 pace, felt very easy.

    I do my long on Monday, can't decide if it is early or late.

    Beetroot: what do I need to do? (minni?) Looking at


  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    AR - if you train hard in the evenings then you are forcing your bady to stay....cortisol levels blah blah !  Hard training about 7 or 8 hours after bed time is betting for sleeping, if not better for training.

    KR - your post made me laugh, 10M inc 5 at HMP or maybe a bit quicker than HMP, you need to re-assess your HMP. 

  • TR - I always start sessions before 6am unless needs absolutely must. Now and then life gets in the way, but I'm working on that.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    7 for me tonight at 7:24 pace. Legs felt stiff and achey for the first time in ages. Wasn't a slog but didn't feel natural. All my longish runs are done in the evenings after work as I loathe getting up before seven especially when I can't see the sky!

  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭

    Interesting on the working styles.  Currently I'm salaried and the corporate body at the top of the tree decided to stop selling smartphone products which is the area I develop for.  Waiting for redundancy or some miraculous re-emergence of demand for my skills from Japan.

    Currently pondering what to do - doing the same thing very unlikely, so contractor life could be a possibility.  Other than that may move to SA or start my own company.

    No running for me today as my boy got sick and I was looking after him.  LSR moved to tomorrow.


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Bike it - move to SA, buy a hotel and we'll all come and stay for Comrades!

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Reminder that the Northumberland Coastal Race opens for entries at midnight and will fill very fast. One of those must-do events.

    PMJ - just drink the beetroot. They try to keep it down 

    Interesting reflections on work.  It's easy as a freelance to feel guilty about not working massive hours...and by extension to feel guilty about taking taking time off potential work hours to train. Plus the freelance lifestyle can preclude structured training plans.

    Moof is spot on about contractors - sometimes winging it is the way ahead!

    No work today so a decent hilly 10m clocked, hurrah.

  • Minni-  Great idea, is there a Comrades Half?  

    TR- When I've followed P&D and run the long tempo/ HM efforts, eg. 9 with 6 at HMP, I've hit about 6.15 pace in training and have run a half a few weeks later at 6.10 pace. So I reckon you can hit Half pace or there abouts in training for a fair few miles but it is a tough run. Maybe you're not trying hard enough. (adds winking face)

    So I didn't make my 5 mile lunch time run because I had to work it, this is never good. So I  managed 8 miles with a few sets of strides after work.

    It was a commute home so I was running with my rucksack. At about mile six when I was blasting through a few sets of strides I could hear a muffled voice coming from my rucksack. "hello, hello, is everthing ok?" Then she said she'd call back,  I couldn't be arsed to stop and get the phone out (I thought it was my wife). A few seconds later the phone went off again so I thought I'd better stop and answer it.

    "hello, are you ok?" came a concerned voice.

    "Yes" I puffed, "who's this?"

    "The Police, you've just rung the emergency number from your phone!"

    "Oh shit..........sorry!"

    I offered several more embarrassed apologies and she sent me on my way.

    I have been wasting police time.

  • Oooh, we grew into a large team. My stats look bad this week, but that's because I have a double planned for Sunday. I promise it will be up to date by Sunday night!

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    AR - being a pro would be easy wouldnt it !

    moof - maybe.......or maybe you're not trying hard enough (on race day). 

  • I am, my legs might not be.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    train tickets purchased- thanks Minni, just need to get in the Coastal run now.... 

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Naughty naughty, moof.

  • OO - have a good parkrun.
    Abbers - strength work is something I never get around to doing.
    PMJ - but how do you train the pixies?
    Leslie - good easy run.
    AR - sounds like it's getting a bit serious at the gym.
    Mennania - most of my runs feel like recovery runs at the moment!
    FINgers - nice MP/tempo work.
    Minni - put me down for a copy of the book - signed of course.
    RoadWarrior - that's pretty good going on 20 miles a week. Just be careful not to increase the mileage too fast or do too much speedy stuff at the time. I would say you have the ability, but don't try to rush it.
    Ant - good 10 miler.
    SJ - nice progress.
    GM - time for a bit of a rest/recovery?
    Poacher - good hilly run.
    Moof - I had a similar call from the police a few weeks ago.
    Did this morning's 18 miler blind and turned out at an average pace of 8:05 m/m. Felt very easy, so I'll take that as a good sign. 63 miles d&d this week.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Gul I can't believe you've seriously done 18 miles already...

    Still no Coastal entry- the site is down image


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    It seems to be working now OO - I've just entered.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    OO - have you seen THIS proposal for a new HM in Newcastle.

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