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Agree with BOTF. The point of an LT session is to nudge the threshold up and up over the weeks of training. If you are going to use Mcmillan to get your vLT pace, then it needs to be based on current fitness using a recent race. The best race for this thread would probably be a 10M, and then a HM / 10k
There are also disagreements on whether you should run at vLT, or slightly slower. Going by feel and completing the session might be the best option early on in training. Easy for me to talk as my LT sessions are still a few weeks away.
Yesterday I managed my 1200m reps at 5:32pace which is the quickest I've run, and Tomorrow is 12+M inc 8@MP. I've started to slightly dread those sessions as the MP section seems to go on forever.
I'm joining the crew with a slight hip niggle so will also be borrowing the thread tennis ball.
5k easy lunch run me this lunchtime churned out avg 7:30mm pace. Can feel the fitness slowly coming back.
Bike it - I had the Saucony Ride 5's and they were great for my Autumn mara campaign, nice and light but with nice cushioning too. Let me know how you get on with them pls. Were you serious when you said recently that you may up sticks and head out to SA? We have an office in Cape Town and one of my colleagues who is the CFO said he had a spare desk that I could use and that I should put in for a transfer. I must say that I was very tempted.
Minni - Fast sessions, you say you are crap at these type of sessions. How often do you do them? They take a few go's to get used to them. I like running fast (relatively speaking) most of the time but with those hard ones you have to be in the right frame of mind to get through them and they don't always come off but in my limited experience the more often you do them the easier they get. Bit like long runs over 15 miles for me, I tend to go to pieces but I am sure it's more of a mind thing.
Leslie - Well done, that's a tough session!
SB - That's an impressive average for those hilly miles. You're going well!
Abbers - Nice 9 miler inspite of the cheeky running buddy!
Hi, just up after a kip(nightshift) I did complete the LT session the last time but at around 7:10 pace for first mile with the last mile in 7:00 with no rest in between.
The pace mcmillan gives is for a 90 min half marathon which is where I was last september not a future pace and im definately fitter now although its the top end or 15k pace.I ran a 15k last year at 6:40 average so it is spoton there .I got 2 miles in the lt zone today with no rest so its not far off just a shock to the system.
I setout to do it continuous and I think I am capable but as said with a big week so far it was beyond me today despite easing of yesterday but I wasnt going home till I got 4 miles I will be giving it a try everyweek now and adjusting the pace as needed to get 4 in a row like last time. even if its slower.
Do people stop before the 4 hard miles for a little rest or just go straight in after the warmup which is what I did ???
Sounds like you know where you are Leslie, and can put today's run behind you. I generally go straight into the LT miles following a warmup where I do some accelerations so that LT pace doesn't come as a complete shock.
I've also messed about with 2x20mins, 3x15mins etc. My current plan will include sessions like 2x3M. It doesn't put you through the P&D 7M @ LT.
Crikey there's some committed training going on..
PMJ as I recall, Finchley is an undulating course, if you can turn in something that fast then you will cane it in London
MsE - welcome home, nearly
Gerard - don't be too impressed by the Comrades talk. Lots of posters talked a good talk, but when it came to signing up for 2014 only Bike It put his rand where his mouth is. The others have it all to prove*
(*winky smiling joke icon should be here, but Mac doesn't like it)
I need my bed!
10.5 miles done in 1:26 in the wind and rain!
Another MLR ticked off! only 6 tomorrow night!
pacey 5 miler for me, so another double session. Pooped now
Also-ran -" It doesn't put you through the P&D 7M @ LT. "... sounds like a killer session that, think it will be a long time before I try it.
Rich and 00-51 - good runs
SB, that sounds a bit nasty but obviously worth the investment in recovery time for you.
Poacher, that is a fair comment
Well done on roughing that session out Leslie. Think I would have eased off mind and kept a sustainable bit uncomfortable pace.
By the way, check out ubersense on the App Store - it's free and allows you to video your running form and do slowmo playback and comparisons and draw angles and reference lines etc. Really quite handy.
Menna, in the interests of taking it easy I did an easy 7 around my favourite field tonight with 8x40s fartlek efforts which ranged between 5:38mm and 5:08mm and felt quite comfortable. Wouldn't want to hold it for 4miles mind, but 5:30 pace felt ok... I felt like I was going to explode 3 weeks ago at anything beginning with a 6 so the adaptations (probably all psychological) are starting to take hold.
Comrades! Whoop whoop!!
Poacher wrote (see)
PMJ as I recall, Finchley is an undulating course, if you can turn in something that fast then you will cane it in London
Poacher, I did 2:08:11 the year you ran it, and you do recall rightly that it is somewhat undulating but nothing too much of a killer and indeed the pace variation seems to help with fatigue to some extent. 20 is way easier than 26.2 so 2:08 and not 2:10 is a fair target. 2:08 equates to 2:51 but 2:10 to 2:53.
Lots of good training going on.
Leslie H - tough session there and hard to keep the pace up on your tod especially if you start off a little fast. I like a 2 to 3 mile warm up before Reps and LT sessions increasing the pace from very easy for the first mile up to a short stretch at MP, I also like to include a few sets of relaxed strides to get the engine revving before the main event.
Also-ran are you going to run those MP miles at planned MP pace. (I may have asked that before). Go easy if the hip is playing up.
Hope yours isn't too serious Slokey.
My very temperamental 305 is playing up again, it records ok but none of the sites I log my data on (Fetch and Strava) will 'find' my garmin. I've tried the soft and hard reset, plus checked plug in is up to date. Worked ok a few days back.........so frustrating!!! Drives me up the wall.
Might be time for an upgrade, what do you all recommend?
I got round to listening to MT Pfitzinger interview, really interesting stuff. I see Ant got a name check for asking a great question. I'm surprised Petes favourite colour is pink.
A bit of running from me. 6 hilly miles yesterday, hitting the hills hard. That is a tough painful session.
9 easy this morning and 3 recovery this evening. Some more easy miles tomorrow before a 9 mile with 5 at LT planned for Friday. I'll take on board what everyone has said about these session and nail them in one go, as I don't want a bollicking from Minni.
Three runs in 3 days, I need a lie down. Even Jantastic didn't believe me! When marathon training I usually do a Wednesday 10 miler. I had my doubts about doing it today because I'm still not feeling 100%, but I decided I'd give it a crack anyway at a slow pace, with the option to cut short if required. The first half was quite frankly bloody awful. I was running comfortably from a breathing point of view, but everything else felt pretty lousy. Based on the breathing I soldiered on though, and once I got over the big hill at 5 miles I actually started to feel a bit better. I didn't look at the watch all the way round, just ran comfortably, only allowing myself to start to get a bit out of breath on the hills, and to my very pleasant surprise it came out at an average of 8:10 per mile. So there's plenty there from an aerobic point of view, pity I can't say the same for the legs and the head at the moment.
moof: I have two cradles for my 305 and one one it works and not the other. I am now in the market for another cradle via ebay etc.
FINgers - hope the intervals went OK.Abbers - training in my sleep? Let's not obsessive nowLeslie - don't be too hard on yourself - that's not an easy session. Perhaps you could aim for something slightly slower on the first couple of LT miles and build up the pace instead.SB - nice hill run.BOTF - steady as she goes.AR - those are some fast reps!GM - good to hear things are improving.Rich - good run.OO - nice double.SJ - you are the new King of the field laps!Moof - some good training going on.Change of routine for me today - felt a bit weird not getting out of bed till 6:30. Our car has been booked into the garage this afternoon, so I'm dropping my wife off at work (near the garage) and then going for this week's long run (19 miles). Out and back route mapped on the new RunHub section of RW - could be a bit of a shock to the legs as it includes ascent and descent! Hopefully, should be back in time to pick up the car and the wife before returning home.
If people can't wait until 2015, the international entries for Comrades 2014 are still open. I think 'til end of Feb or March. However if you get in touch with them directly then they will accommodate and international runner as late as a few weeks before the race when the numbers go for printing.
GM - thanks for the feedback about the Saucony Ride 5 - good to know someone else has used them successfully.
I am currently very seriously investigating moving to SA. I've been at this job 17 years and now the top-level corporation is trying to find a buyer, but actually it is quite unlikely that one would be found, except for a small part of my company and a sale is already in progress there. So probably I would be made redundant in a few months. If so we are contemplating to buy a small-holding in the North West Province. They are relatively cheap compared to the UK and I want to take it off-grid and wouldn't have a mortgage. We would like to produce a lot of our own food. I'm considering to start a business and work about 3 days per week.
Today an unusual thing happened - I was out of bed before Gul at 5:55.
BTW GM - It sounds like you've got a very good set-up where you currently are. A lot of people (me included) would jump at the chance to move to the Cape. It's a great part of the world and if I remember right you lived there before anyway. Personally I would love to move to the Cape, but my wife is drawn to her home town.
Bike it - I have always lived near the ocean except when I lived in the Klein Karoo and if I was seriously thinking of making the move back it would have to be coastal. NWP, I can only think of Rustenburg? The issue we also have is that my son was born in Jersey and they have an archaic housing law here that states you must reside here continously for 10 years to have entitled housing status, in plain English that means no property or work restrictions. He is turning 6 in July so if we left he would have to start from 0 if things didn't work out in SA. I like the sound of your plan. I think to make it over there you either need to be self employed or have professional qualifications.
Poacher - Did you say you were doing the Comrades?
Gul - Enjoy the 19 miler!
BI - lots to think about. No wonder you were up before Gul.
I've really enjoyed the Hanson Method so far. Not so much because I think it's a good marathon plan (who knows?) but more because of the variety and interest the sessions give. I've also gone along with the crazy target and paces that Luke Humphrey set for me. I'm going along with the training paces, trying not to worry about the lack of long runs, and as for the target, what will be will be.
Step forward to this morning (treadmill day) and I was wondering where the feck the PMP came from. 3 miles easy, give the hip a quick jiggle, and then begin the 8M tempo at PMP (moof - yes PMP for the tempo sessions). Oh my god, that was the longest tempo I have ever experienced. I'm sure the first mile lasted 20 minutes. I spent the time wondering where the feck he pulled the PMP from. Several lets quit thoughts later and I managed to get through the 8M @ 6:15, and did about .3 more so that the next increase to 9 isn't quite so far off.
3M easy and then off home to sulk for 30 seconds. One thing I note is that my heart rate was up quite a lot throughout so there may be a touch of lurgy affecting me.
Gul - it feels weird getting out of bed at 6.30 am for me too. Hope the 19 miler is a good un.
SJ - nice progression - 7 mile of laps around a field sounds tortuous
Bike it - That sounds quite idylic. thanks for the figures re elevation - I have not been able to find anything tangeable which is a bit surprising really.
My 305 will not start after a full charge and is also dropping data such as maps and elevation. Might be time for a new one.
Back ontrack after sundays effort but with a recurring twinge to the adductor, nothing more than a fleeting spasm but something to keep my eye on.
BI - new shoes and big plans! Easy to get caught up in the day-to-day of life and forget to follow dreams and ambitions, so more power to you if you go ahead
BotF - Take it easy on your comeback; it'll take a little bit of time to recover fully. Good 10 miler though.
AR - sounds flippin' quick to me.
GM - like BI, Cape Town sounds very tempting! You're obviously used to moving around anyway given previous posts about your working history, so not such an issue to up sticks and go?
Rich - well done, keep sticking to the program!
OO51 - good double.
SJ - " 7 around my favourite field" A bit squelchy at the moment? Impressive paces though.
Moof - love the hills - they're your friends! Backed up with an easy double too, looking good.
Gul - have fun on your LSR. Hope the car's nothing too serious.
Could be an interesting session today. 1 w/u, 3 in 23 (7:40), 3 in 20 (6:40), 1 c/d. Will report back post-run.
Thanks for all the comments about that LT session and sorry to use your example to raise the question, Leslie. To get my confidence on these sessions I think I need to slow them down a bit and nail them then progress from there.
We are thinking to move to the Potchefstroom area in the NWP. It is primarily a university town and also farming with some mines at a distance. My wife was born here and would like to slot right back in. Crime is not so bad as other area. I'm an electronic engineer by profession, but have been in management roles for years so not actually able to much useful. Nor would there be much demand for these kind of skills in this area. Hence thinking about self employment - currently thinking some kind of electrical business, like off-grid solar power.
Bit of a good session there AR.
Bike It, I know a few guys at Potchefstroom University for Christian Higher Education and have been out there at times. Nice place.
Minni, what does your coach recommend for the LT runs?
Lit - I don't do many of them, in fact rarely, which might be part of the problem. Also, on paper I should be able to nail them but really struggle on my own, and I think this is mostly due to a mental barrier. Its something we are both aware of but we are struggling to come up with a solution. Unfortunately I have no parkruns nearby to use and also nobody local who I can get on board to help.
Leslie - You've taken a bit of a pounding, but many would have sacked that session half way through and failed to mention it on here. I agree with Abbers in that setting a hard but achievable pace is the key to these things. In your case 6:55mm does sound reasonable. We are a long way out from our target race(s) and we have to be realistic as to where exactly we are now, as opposed to where we want to be come race day. It always pays to aim high but no so high that we get left feeling deflated and demoralised. I'm sure you'll nail it next time.
I do 2.5M w/u, increasing the pace for the last km of that, and then tuck straight into the meat and two veg. I personally think it's better to do the LT blocks in one go but if that is too demanding for whatever reason, at least split it so that you have run at LT pace for at least 15 mins at a time.
This leads us onto another topic,which is stopping during runs in general. I try not to do so at all, but on longer runs (10M+) I allow myself a minute or so's stop at a drinking fountain. You would be taking on liquids in races so I don't think this is too much of a concession to slacking-ness. As for traffic lights etc, if I can't cross i continue further down the road until I can. If you're having to stop and start constantly, you're training in the wrong place, I'd say.
Moof - When you're a media personality like me, the least you can do is give something back, man. (Smiley-winky emoticon should go here, but I can only do the smileys for some reason...)
AR - That is an amazing tempo (PMP) run, and I don't know why you felt you had to sulk... Actually, though, there's got to be a big difference between Tempo and PMP paces, hasn't there, surely? How's your stalker, btw?
14.3 miles this morning @ 7:27mm overall, with the second half 3 mins quicker than the first. This was the best Thursday run of the campaign, cos I have struggled with the MLR up to now, but I was careful not to get carried away as tomorrow there's 11 to do and on Sunday...21 (gulp).
Ant Nice negative split for a Thursday. Sounds like P&D is going really well. I finish off the week with a 6, 8 and 10 which is not much more than your LR!
Hanson Tempo sessions are run at PMP, and their 'Strength' Sessions are run using an LT pace, so more like a typical Threshold session. Those start up in 3 or 4 weeks.
The reason I sulked temporarily was that I breezed trough the 7M session last week, decided I was king of the treadmill, and then got a shock today. I checked my HR data for the 5M, 6M and 7M tempos. HR then looked nothing like today, so potentially something is off. While the other sessions bob around the 85%maxHR level, today I was hitting 92%+ Makes sense why it was so bloomin hard
Will take it easy for a few days (as is the plan) , and see how the rerun of todays session looks when it gets repeated next Thursday.
moof I hear you. I probably overcooked my intervals on Tuesday so may have carried a bit of unwanted baggage into todays session
Ant - another very solid run from you. Sounds like a big weekend coming up too.
AR - that's still a really tough session, all the more so for it being on the dreadmill and staring at a screen/into space for the duration! Menthol investment, as well as physical. Hopefully the easy days will see your HR back to where it should be.
Minni - I'm a bit the opposite, I actually quite like doing my tempo stuff by myself as I'm then focussing on my own pace, rather than worrying about whether anybody else is faster or slower than me and racing them, which isn't the point of the session.
Which brings me to today's run. 1 warm up, then 3 @ 7:40, so 23 mins, which I hit give or take a handful of seconds. A little quick, but that was due to an over-exuberant 2nd mile with a bit of downhill. Then 3 @ 6:40, so 20 mins. Came out at 6:39, 6:38 and just went with it for the last mile which I was mildly surprised at and came out at 6:29, so 19:46, then 1 cool down.
Given that last tempo mile, the fact I've now got a rest day and an easy, shortish run on Saturday before Sunday's 5 mile race, I'm now in 2 minds as to what I should try to achieve at the weekend. Schedule says aim for sub-32, my PB on that course is 32:10 from a couple of years ago (ran 32:25 there last year), and I was planning on going out at ~6:20s and trying to hold on. Think I probably still will, as my weakness is speed endurance more than anything else, but I'm wondering if I should be a bit more ambitious... but it's only a waymarker in a much bigger picture, so don't want to throw it all out the window for the sake of a bit of vanity. Hmm.