Sub 3h15



  • ABBERS- I threw in an extra rest day, Mon-rest after the 20,Tues 7x800, wed- easy, rest thursday, Friday 9 HMP, Sat 5 easy, Sun 18. So took 4 off the total. Felt very tired doing the last 18 but it's all pretty much hard training over!! yee ha! all 6's this week and 4's next week then the moment of truth!  

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    MsE - Impressive comeback the racing scene and podium to boot. I can relate to your sadness re leaving California, I had the same feeling when I left Cape town and other places but you will soon get back into the swing of things and I'm sure you've made some good friends when out there. How long was your stint out there? Don't know if it was a typo or whether you misread Jools's report but I believe her half took place in the exotic location of Larne and not Larnaca.image

    AR - Good to hear you are getting looked after at your sports clinic. Hope it improves soon!

    Just saw one of my XC team members for Sunday finished 11th in Melbourne Ironman over the weekend, 8:22 was only good enough for 11th place! Interesting to see what sort of shape he will be in.

  • TR, the figures are these:

    Sun, 23 Mar 2014 9:37    20.29    02:22:01
    Sun, 9 Mar 2014 9:02    20.04    02:09:01
    Mon, 17 Feb 2014 7:15    22.04    02:41:42
    Thu, 30 Jan 2014 7:26    20.02    02:30:01
    Mon, 20 Jan 2014 7:17    21.01    02:32:15
    Mon, 23 Dec 2013 8:09    20.00    02:54:10

    I put in the 20 miler I did in December which was 2:54 and so truly was time on the feet. I probably also did another half or so faffing round yesterday as I had friends and friends of friends and once I had finished I walked/jogged back to about the mile marker to see friends in and then we did the same for friends of friends.

    The 21 and 22 were both P&D MP+20% out and MP+10% back progressive style. Really, the Finchley 20, 2:09, was too fast at the start but no lasting damage caused and probably serves better as a hard lesson learned rather being run as planned and spot on. 


    Sun, 23 Mar 2014 9:37 20.29 02:22:01 Sun, 9 Mar 2014 9:02 20.04 02:09:01 Mon, 17 Feb 2014 7:15 22.04 02:41:42 Thu, 30 Jan 2014 7:26 20.02 02:30:01 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 7:17 21.01 02:32:15 Mon, 23 Dec 2013 8:09 20.00 02:54:10
  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    GM - blimey, 8:22 is smoking fast !

    PMJ - 23rd Dec is probably too long ago for your legs to remember it, but your Feb and March is similar to mine, although I think I have more time on feet over those long runs. You have lots more miles and consistency than me though and have a lot of PnD under your belt. I dont have a 20M race either.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    TR - Indeed it is, background is he is a commonwealth medallist swimmer so think he was out of the water in 3rd, a second or two behind the leaders but suffered on the 2nd half of the bike and lost 15 mins and then went hell for leather on the run but could ONLY run 3:00! That's the difference between podiums in the pro's, they are animals on the bike and then run sub 2:50 marathons. It's hard to comprehend. Have you done one?

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Boy, there's a lot to catch up on.

    Jools - Nice HM there.  Pretty damned close to your target.  Blooming hills!

    OO - 5 hours??!!!  You'll be doing an ultra next!

    PMJ - MP followed by easy sounds ok to me!  You've done so much I'm sure that not make any difference on the big day.

    Some long runs crammed in there TR.image  Good to see you back.

    Birch - consistency is more important that big mileage in my books.

    Rich - encouraging indeed.  Its nice to reach M day and know you've done all you can.

    Nice long running Speedy and Lit.

    Thank you for your good wishes Gul.

    Yes to the massage Lorenzo.  I've had one today, then booked for physio next Monday and another massage with needles the Wednesday before London.   Actually, good advice from PMJ, if you haven't had one before then maybe not.

    Abbers - liking the new profile pic.  Mr Minni is a cricketer so I love cricket season.  I gain all my brownie points then by supporting and it keeps him out the house for half the weekend - longer if I'm lucky!!image

    BB- good to hear from you.  Well done on the HM too.  Were you pleased with that?  Oh, just read on.  Hope those niggles sort themselves out.

    Mennania - thanks for the SiS tip.  You're going well, good to see.

    Nice running GM, Rich & Leslie. 

    AR - Hope you manage to hang on in there.

    MsE - great to see you back racing - you are looking HOT on your photos.  I need to diet before TR!

    Phew, is that everything covered?

    Ant - Nice vid!






  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭


    So, on Saturday I did an easy 5 miles (with no watch) and made it very easy, after 2 days off.  I ached.  I didn't feel good.   Over the weekend I decided that Edinburgh wasn't going to happen because I couldn't really be arsed to think about marathons anymore.  I decided I'd take a couple of weeks off now then concentrate on shorter stuff over the summer and try to do well in the club Grand Prix.

    The final decider would be 12 @ MP at some point this week.  It would be make or break.  I had a sports massaged booked this evening so decided the first attempt would be this morning and if I ditched it that would give me time later in the week.

    Went 2 miles off road with the dog as a warm up then a change into road shoes and I was off. My niggles niggled for the first few miles but then didn't get any worse and I stopped fretting.  Ended up doing 13 miles at 7:14 pace.  I was tiring in the last couple of miles but still knocked out sub 7:20s.  I definitely don't feel any worse for it and hoping the massage and needles tonight will help me recover quickly.

    So, may well be back on! 

    I do love a bit of drama!!


  • Tapir madness

    The whole damn lot of you.

    Thanks for the feedback on coffin dodging, my having taken a couple of years out did help the deep injury issues I was having, as well as the inside of my head. Meanwhile, I am really pleased that I have now learned how to swim. Because of the low base line (think house brick) the improvements have been  good. I even overtook someone at training. Running wise, I've invested in some noo shooos. That makes it serious. Might even think about going long in the autumn.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    Minni wrote "MsE - great to see you back racing - you are looking HOT on your photos.  I need to diet before TR!"............!!

    Minni - good news on the MP test. I hope to try something similer this week too.

    GM - impressive stuff. no IM's here and no 2:50's either (even without the swim/bike warm up). I kind of have a self imposed ~3hr rule at weekends, it makes marathons and 1/2 IMs do-able with 3hr long rides and runs (only one or two a year). I bend the rules every now and then for a race (even a 10k takes a few hours including faff and travel). 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
  • Minni - Hurray!!

    AR - Boo!!

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Minni- we love drama too, will she, won't she.....we hope so image 

    SJT- sounds nasty and very graphic image

    I'm in Paris for 3 days- didn't bring my kit so guaranteed 3 days rest. 3 course meal with large steak just consumed image

  • Minni - so, let's get this right. 

    1. "The final decider would be 12 @ MP later this week"

    2. "Ended up doing 13 miles at 7:14 pace"

    Sounds like you'll be on the sub 3:10 train at VLM then? image

    Thanks to peeps for the advice on massage or not - sounds like the "no" vote has it. I guess I'd better rule out a game of squash for the week before as well.

    Most importantly, what's happened on Jantastic? We're down to 6th on the ranking of large teams and only just on the first page for all teams.

    Some people including a certain young lady from Northumbria haven't logged any runs this week.image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Lorenzo - I've tried and I keep getting this message: The shortest you can run is 1 Mile or 1.6 KM. It must be a digit, no units! I've emailed them.
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭


  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Ha ha! TR is, of course, Thunder Run which the lovely Minni and I are joining forces to do together this summer, TR. I only hope to get my endurance and speed up so I can make sure I don't bring the team

    down. I've managed to surpass myself and post a photo of last week's 12K where I am drafting off a lady who reeled me in but I was able to speed past at in finishing straight. 

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Good news from you Minni!

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - I'm using the local 10k race course, which is pancake flat, except for one little blip where it rises up around a couple of metres to the river bank. Last year I failed in my sub 40 attempt by half a minute; I think I made the mistake of tagging onto to someone and failed to spot when they slowed down. D'oh! I'm sure your session yesterday is nothing to worry about. Never had a sports massage myself, but I'm sure if you're used to them then a pre-VLM one should be fine.
    Mennania - nice MP run - enjoy the taper. Never seen SIS gels in our local Tescos.
    PMJ - nice stats, as ever.
    Abbers - good last 20. I'm still thinking about taper mileage myself!
    6JT - ouch! Here's to a fast recovery.
    Jools & Badbark - great results in Larne, well done.
    AR - sorry things are not improving.
    Leslie - nice 10 miler.
    GM - sounds like you're going to enjoy the XC.
    MsE - great result in the HM. Hope the move goes well.
    Minni - rollercoaster! Hope everything holds together for you.
    Did 9 miles with 5 x 600m off 400m recoveries this morning to sharpen up a bit. 2:10, 2:08, 2:06, 2:06, 2:06. Hopefully that gave the central governor a bit of a beating.

  • TR wrote (see)


    PMJ - 23rd Dec is probably too long ago for your legs to remember it, but your Feb and March is similar to mine, although I think I have more time on feet over those long runs. You have lots more miles and consistency than me though and have a lot of PnD under your belt. I dont have a 20M race either.

    I have followed P&D 55-70 miles per week pretty much spot on for the last 11 weeks with 3 exceptions:

    1) I have re-organised runs during the week, so you can see 3 of those long runs are actually mid-week mornings.
    2) The 18 with 14@MP in week 5 to go became 20 mile race so 20@MP.
    3) The 14 mile MLR in week 4 to go got dropped. That whole week was disrupted by gout so the 14 got canned and the total fell to 48 miles instead of 60.

    P&D are very exacting about long runs and they are clearly not "time n the feet" runs. Doing 70 miles a week is taking 8 or 9 hours a week so that is plenty of time on the feet, in fact 11 runs have been 2 hours or longer.

    I guess what this post is about is that there are a number of ingredients needed for the marathon cake, and a number of extra toppings. Most marathon plans include those core needed ingredients and then they differ with the toppings. Shooting for all the toppings will spoil the cake so if you compare runners you will see a lot on common but some detailed differences and these differences do not indicate extra or less, just a different topping.

    Yes, I would have liked for the British weather to dry out and return the Thames tow-path to a state that is runnable on and done a steady long run up in the 2:5x or 3.0x time-frame but to do so I woudl have had to drop something else and would then be bemoaning the lack of MP running or a fast finished LSR.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    PMJ - I understand PnD, you will find me backing them up and telling folks to trust the plan and not add extra miles. I guess I was just comparing apples and oranges to see how I compared to where you are (with you aiming 2:50). You have a well structured PnD, I have the usual mixed bag but have a bit more time on feet than you. I'd say your shoes would be preferable than mine on race day. As an aside, I have run many VLMs with Odeon, I don't think I can ever recall him running further than 20M in training, yet he always finishes marathons very strongly. I'm not saying you needed time on feet (you mentioned that you were going to do some last weekend, but never), but I did need a bit of time on feet, I have no MP running and no progressive long runs. VLM will be tough for me but do-able.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    MsE - good trail racing. You signed off in style!

    6JT - diagnosis could have been worse then? Rest well and you'll hopefully be fine.

    AR - don't know what to add - just really hope you get through to the start line.

    TR - good work by Jr #2. From that and your previous posts, he clearly has some talent.

    Rich - thanks for the comparison. Think I'll drop Wednesday's easy 7 to 5 and the weekend's 18 to 16 with the last few around PMP. Hope you're avoiding taper madness!

    GM - you're keeping high quality athletic company in your team!

    Minni - on the cricket, I'm looking forward to the day when I'm encouraged to be out of the house for longer, rather than being missed by the Ms As! On running, flippin' heck, that comeback run was a bolt out of the blue! From being a major doubt, you sound good to go. This could be the year of the maverick plan (albeit enforced, rather than intentional).

    Blisters - sounding positive. New shoes are always a sign of intent.

    Lorenzo - sensible decision, and no to the squash!

    Gul - nice early intervals.

    PMJ - sounds like you're well prepared and should have confidence that you'll have an excellent run in London.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Beet it shots - I recall some on here saying they liked this sort of thing and that they found it to be beneficial. On sale here !

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Wow! Plenty going on in here. Good luck to all those with niggles and worse.

    Taper week 2 for me. Pulled in my final LSR paced runs to last Thursday and this Thursday (14 and 10 milers) in order to maximise rest for the final week. Have done a 6.5 and a 5.25 in the last couple of days and don't feel great. Spending Sunday chopping logs with my axe and chainsaw was not a good idea (sore back!) but nevertheless, I wasn't running freely on my 5.25 miler yesterday. 7.17 pace should have felt much easier than it did.

    I know this is all part of the taper but it's not good for confidence.
    Just 2 weeks ago I ran a 91 minute HM followed by a dead easy 20 at 8.06 pace a week later yet now I don't feel I could run either of those to that quality. Ridiculous!

    If a work colloeague was telling me all this I'd tell him to man-up and bloody pull himself together!
    What doesn't help is keeping to the lower miles and slower speeds. I understand the concepts but they do seem alien. I keep trying to squeeze in a couple more little runs.

    Sorry for the whinge. feel better now! image



  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    SB - Chopping logs with your axe and chainsaw, sounds fairly manly to me.image Chin up you have a solid training period behind you & all you need to do is try hang onto your sanity and not break. I would refrain from axes and chainsaws though as that could scupper everything not to mention the mess it would cause.image

  • Sporty B - Man up and, you know, pull yourself together.

    Gul - Excellent set of reps - your Central Governor will be impressed.

    Still treading on eggshells here so just did 7 miles this morning, but with the last 5 @ 7:09mm. Lorenzo, Minni, can I jump aboard the sub - 3:10 express? I'll sit in the Guard's van if you like.

    Help, please.

    Niggledom has scuppered any chance of my bagging a sub - 3, I think I can safely say, and has left my marathon cake a bit bland and a tad underdone. Keeping one eye on making sure I do actually get to the start line, what should I do in terms of longer stuff, in the 2-and-a-half weeks left til VLM?

    In 2014 I have done 15 runs of 13.1 or more, incl. 1 x 22, 1 x 21, 1x 20 and 1 x 18. Also, 3 x 16 and 4 x 15. In total I've done 650 miles this year. I realise this is a bit skimpy. I'm planning on a 16-miler next weekend; should I consider doing 18-20 in the middle of next week. I'm one of those who often get to the start line and can't really remember having run long at all.

    By the way, a first run-out for these boys today:


     On first impressions I think I like them better than the 10s, for sure. A lot less clunky.

  • I'm liking the Cake analogy - something I can relate to. Before you get to the toppings you can give 6 contestants the same ingredients and recipe. Great British Bakeoff proves you get 6 different bases!  Less fruit talk about apples and oranges, and more chocolate please.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    AR - Totally with you on the more chocolate. Devoured a Waitrose chocolate Ganache tart on Sat evening, well not all to myself but it was divine.

    Ant -  Like your style there with those T11's. Very nice. I have to say I've found the 10's less satisfactory compared to the 9's.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    SB - just focus on getting yourself to the start now. Fitness testing is tempting, but counter-productive at this stage. Trust the process. Or so the received wisdom keeps being repeated at this time of year! I'm with GM though; think I'll be staying well away from axes and chainsaws!

    Ant - 18-20 in the middle of next week, about 10 days out from VLM? I think you already know the answer to that. Nice shoes image

    AR / GM - oh yes; cake, tart, chocolate, whatever's going really! In running terms, I'd be happy with a plain old Victoria sponge as my first marathon cake. A good base from which to build one's marathon CV.

    7 x 800 for me as part of a 6 miler. The 800s were pretty consistent, coming in at 3:03, 3:01, 3:02, 3:02, 3:01, 3:01, 3:00, and I suppose I should be happy enough with that, but they felt like really hard work and were 3-4 seconds slower per rep than the same session earlier in training. In the same boat as SB now, doubting that my training has made me fitter or faster, so I should just be quiet and take my own advice! image

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Gym mystery solved. Finally spoke to Charleston Girl whom I must now call "Die Tanz-Fraulein" as she turns out to be German. I gave it a bit of the old "guten abend" then asked why she waves her hands about like a mad thing while on the treadie.  Sadly, it's not part of a complex muscle-toning exercise or interval session, it's just to try to cool down as it is 37C outside, the sun blasts through the windows and the weak aircon inside makes the gym hot, sweaty and rank. Anyway, 8m D&D.

    Minni welcome back to the start line

    Keep up the work, DONT get injured, and remember taper madness is an illusion. I won't be tapering for London at all (but not an A race)

  • I let someone who works for me have some time off (this is supposed to happen). I just received 2 slices of Waitrose Chocolate and Mint Gateau as a thankyou. which has been polished off . There was nothing in the way of toppings on this, and it didn't suffer for it. Quite a light base though for a marathon cake.

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