Sub 3h15

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  • One exception.

    All marathons are painful. Or they should be. If not, you aren't trying hard enough.

    Other than that, you can make small gains with these little props. And major losses by making basic mistakes. Being trained for the distance is blindingly obvious rule 1. Therefore going off too fast is the rule 2.

    Me? Busy failing against rule 1 at the moment. But then again, I haven't entered a marafun this year.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    SB sounds like you came off lucky. Had my first run after 3 days rest and also managed a spectacular, falling on slippers grass- no damage done and carried in for a steady 10 miler.

    6 more in the morning followed by my pre-race massage which is long overdue.

    The only pain for me in marathons is when I stop running.

  • Welcome Eddie and good luck. I would agree with Minni about the gels - if you've done the training right and you'll be fine. Remember that at VLM you get loads of wáter, Lucozade and gels given to you along the route. I don't think I'm going to bother actually carrying anything.

    There is nothing worse than waking up on race day feeling bloated and sluggish, so my advice is just make sure you eat well on the Friday and Saturday - look after the quality but don't go overboard on the quantity. If nothing else, you'll drive yourself bonkers trying to work out what foods contain what carbs in an attempt to consume X carbs per ounce of body weight, as if that were any guarantee of success.

  • hi Eddie, welcome to the thread! Your P.B is the same as mine, this is my first time at really training for a specific time - 3:15. I've had a few niggles and a dose of E-coli this campaign but feeling strong these last few weeks and ready to go hopefully. I like you am worrying about the pace to go out etc 3:20 would be great but 3:15 my dreamland(so to speak) I'm thinking if the miles are on the clock and you stuck to a shedule as you planned then you should be good on the day! it's all about believing in the training and getting the fuelling right on the day. for me its a gel every 4 and keep sipping the electrolyte drinks.

    Abbers, great MP run there! Are you not doing the 12 miles MP next weekend? I'm doing it tomorrow so I have 9 days to recover till race day! might only do 10 and use the other 2 as a w/up and c/dn. It's certainly sneaked up on me! I've got a week off work following the race too so that's a bonus!

    6.5 tonight with 4 at MP. 

    Minnie- Are you on the mend for London??

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    10M including the Weston Prom Run (5M) for me tonight.  First lady (in the absence of some of the regular speedsters) but time not quite where I'd have liked: 31.37, so 6s/mile off pb pace.  Legs were still a bit tired from the half-marathon on Saturday, however, so I'll take it!

  • well done Jools! Your the speedster! image hope the tiredness fades

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    good mid week speed there Jools image

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    Oops, sold myself short: 31.17...

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Jools - That's very good after your half the weekend just gone.

    Eddie - Hi there, I no jack sh1t about marathons but I am learning a lot from other folk on here who do know, so you are looking in the right place.image

    Went to work on my foot tonight with a tennis ball and some prodding and seems to have got rid of some tension.

    SJ - thanks for the advice, it's a strange thing that re occurs when you least expect it and I guess I need to get it looked at or it will keep coming back. A year off sounds tough. What happened to you, does it still bother you at all? Good luck for your race!

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Yay, Jools!

    Lorenzo - quick question: have you done either the Surrey Badger Half or the Holmbury Hill Half?  Both look nice races although I like the latter a bit more for the fact it is all trail.  Thoughts appreciated. Am planning my race calendar!

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - you're looking in very good shape at the moment.
    PMJ - I have an advantage then as I don't listen to parkrun, just MT (and miss that fairly often too).
    SB - wouldn't worry about the time at this stage. Nice #gymfail.
    AR - just choose your rocks very carefully.
    Leslie - good to hear the knee is much better. All the best with your HM.
    Mennania - a clue: it's the one in France, not Texas.
    GM - I'm not "religious", but I do believe in prayer! If you can see a podologist, all the better, but I'll still pray that the PF will back off - would be such a shame to miss the XC as you sounded so excited at the prospect. Tomorrow is just a solo effort around the local 10k course - the actual race day is the day following my final planned 20+ miler, so I'm giving it a miss this year.
    Abbers - nice PMP run - if you can get the pacing right, you should be 3:15 or thereabouts, I'd say.
    ltseddie - welcome to the thread and good luck with the 3:20 attempt. Do you currently fuel before or during running? My advice would be not to overdo the carb-loading, and stick with your usual routine, just adding a bit extra maybe.
    OO - good news.
    Jools - cracking 5M, especially following Sunday, and well done on the top spot.
    Another 4 mile recovery run d&d. Jantastic target re-set to 39:30.

  • Well done Jools, that's really good speed, esp in the middle of a week recovering from a HM.

    Lorenzo / Poacher - Sorry to disappoint, but the only orange on my kit for VLM this year will be the letters A - N -T on my top, as modelled in 2012:/members/images/83537/gallery/97041047.jpg

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • Joolska wrote (see)

    Oops, sold myself short: 31.17...

    Can we do height jokes here?

    Week one of the taper still doesn't feel much different to last week non-taper. 30 miles in the first 3 days, 11 easy today and 9 tomorrow padded round a blast at parkrun for a 55 week. I guess the difference is that I did similar last week and then did 20 on Sunday whereas this Sunday it is a day off (if you ever get a day off on Mothering Sunday: it should be about my wife spending time with her kids and not involve me at all: my Mother and I have a good relationship that involves a steady supply of smiling grandchildren to make her happy).

    I read here about a few people juggling with 3:15 / 3:20 and similar will I, won't I aspirations. My advice is that the marathon is a long run and you won't get faster, so if you target 3:20 and aim to hit halfway in 1:40 then it is highly unlikely that you will run 1:40 and 1:35 for a 3:15. If you want a 3:15 then you need to target halfway in bit under 1:37:30 to allow for some fade, maybe 1:36 (7:20 pace) and then come home in 1:39 (7:33).  If it starts to feel too hard in the first few miles, then switch to the B plan but at least you will know you tried.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    PMJ: Re pacing for 3.15 or 3.20. Exactly my thoughts in the car this morning.

    If I want a 3.15 then I'll have to be slightly ahead of goal pace. If it's not working out, I'll be miles ahead of plan B (3.20) so will feel confiedent of hitting 3.19.xx.

    I'm glad you put 1.36 for a HM time. For some reason running a mara at 7.20 pace seems daunting, yet doing a first half at 1.36 seems straight forward, especially after recently racing a 1.31 without a taper. I have rarely hit a negative split in any form of racing and have to allow for fade. Looking at all my races, I seem to hit a pace and stay there.

    It's all about getting the head right at this stage...an mine's all over the place!!  imageimage

    image

    SB

  • My 'strategy' has resulted in a PMJ approach in the past, fading in the second half. I don't think this was judgement though as I have rarely started a race knowing what pace I plan to run at other than a vague ball park figure / running to feeling type thing. London in particular is set up for this.

    Whatever you do, don't believe those pesky garmins. They like to tell lies when your head is mashed.

    I'm sure this is the point where Race Jace drops by to set us right on strategy. Jace ..? 

    I am employing the Inverse Taper this year and plan to test the water tomorrow with an hours run. Even if it doesn't go well, I can open this weeks Jantastic account and score 1 for the team. Plus I really need to rest my blistered hands from rowing.

  • SB, spot on. The thing is if you decide to aim to 1:36 then stick to it. It is very easy to get carried away and think that if 1:36 is good, 1:35 is better.

    In 2011 I trained for a 3:15 for GFA but it was obvious I was faster so I decided 3:00 on the nose which should be 1:28:30 and 1:31:30 and I ended up doing 1:26 and 1:31 for 2:57. The outcome was OK but painful, here I am towards the end of that and looked and felt bad

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-imId0dPFhQA/UzVAEW4I9OI/AAAAAAAAAxE/porlml2AtA8/s800/219338_1984411299406_3621218_o.jpg

     

    The year later, I did 2:50:28 at VLM with 1:24 and 1:26 and felt much better

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m-DYLmsuhGU/UzVADxPCINI/AAAAAAAAAxI/dXSn39IzQnM/s800/457795_3949425863542_645736133_o.jpg

     

     As always I see the silly arms, in both photos arms in same pose, different leg forward,

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    Go on, make some height jokes.  It never happens elsewhereimage

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    PMJ is spot on: books and websites treat -ive or even splits as the Holy Grail but in the real world, the average runner finds this extremely hard to achieve. The most common way to beat one's target in London is to get (not too much) time in the bank and record a +ive split.  The 2nd half of the course is probably slightly slower anyway. I have only done the maths for 2.59 but I suspect it would work for any other target.  For sub3, the stats suggest getting to halfway in 1.26.30-1.28.30, but 1.27-1.28 is safer.

    SB - great #gymfail!!
    And excellent run Jooska
    Eddie - you have plenty of time to decide what to do

     

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    PMJ - I'd swap my arms for your legs any day!

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  • Regurgitated stats based on masees results from 2012 VLM run that I looked at to help with my pace strategy at VLM last year (I was looking at sub 3 only);

    Half Split 1.27.xx - 199nr. onto finish sub 3hrs - 79nr or 40%

    Half Split 1.28.xx - 252nr.  onto finish sub 3 hrs - 66nr or 20%

    Half Split 1.29.xx - 356nr.  onto finish sub 3 hrs - 50nr or 14%

    Half Split 1.30.xx - 321nr.  onto finish sub 3 hrs - 12nr or 4%( 8 of the twelve were less than 1.30.10)

    This suggests (amongst other things) that the first half needs to be a  bit quicker than the second to get under 3hrs. Only 1 person over 1.30xx got a sub 3 so far as I could see. It also may suggest that most people set themselves up to run +ve splits in the first instance as this is their expectation.

    Great Run Joolska

  • Hmm, for some reason I can't post pictures on here. Why, apart from incompetence, might that be?

    N ice orange kit Gerard, many on here would love that.

    Right, I've changed my desktop pic to one of the finishing straight on The Mall and I've even looked at the weather forecast for 13th April. I'm ready for this, now.

    11m easy this morning with no thought of pushing pace at all, and the result was an av of 7:38, wirh the last 3 miles @ 7:05mm, which is officially MP for me this year. HR stayed at an av 138bpm, and I do feel pretty fit, like someone who's going to do a marathon in a couple of weeks, even.

    How are the Manchester/Paris nerves?

     

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    TR - a couple more would have been OK, yes. I just need to get a pace set in my head now so I'm not still thinking about it at 9:59 at Greenwich, and can relax more over the next 2 weeks of taper. The fact it's my first mara keeps coming back to urge me to be cautious. Good MP effort from you yesterday too. The streak is still alive!

    OO-51 - Nice running, despite the early slip. Enjoy your massage.

    Ant - can't be doing with being over-scientific on the carb load. Will just eat more of the recommended fuel sources than usual.

    Rich - I'm not convinced by 12 @ MP a week out from race day. I might do a couple at MP at the end, but 12 seems too much. But again, this is all trial and error!

    Jools - it's still a win only 4/5 days after an HM and a pretty speedy time too, so congrats are due I'd say!

    GM - hope the foot improvement continues.

    Gul - 39:30 certainly sounds doable for you. You're going well.

    PMJ / Sporty B / AR / Poacher - interesting advice on pacing. These exact arguments have been going round my head for a few weeks! Helps to have other people articulate and clrify them though. AR - good luck with your comeback run tomorrow.

    SJ - how's Paris looking this morning? image

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    GM - 2 watches seems a little excessive? image

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Love the second pic, PMJ. Looks like you won London, not run London!

    SB

  • I am somewhat relaxed about it thanks ANT, which in itself is starting to unnerve me. Enjoying the focus on race day strategies as it is helping me to make a decision. Regarding fitness I dont seem to walk anywhere anymore, more of a jog - led to a new office nickname of 'Forrest'.

    Reluctantly did the 3 x 1600m vo2 reps in the 5-30-5.45mm range yesterday, no ill effects and there really is nothing left other than churning the legs over till race day now.

  • marrowsmarrows ✭✭✭

    AR good luck with the run !

    Minni yes I'm green

    PMJ you said you land on your mid-foot so why is your toe in the air like that?

    I found a spreadsheet download of all the VLM splits from last year and am thinking how best to represent this data visually image  The 'find a nice bum and follow it' talk got me wondering if there are gender/age differences in pacing tendencies.

    Pacing strategies - it's different if there is a slack target you really want to hit. one might run conservatively to maximise chances of getting e.g. a champs or GFA time or a nice round number, and knowingly throw out the opportunity for a more spectacular run.  That's fine. You just have to ask yourself - would i rather take a risk and crash and burn, or have a plain solid run and maybe have different regrets? I haven't decided yet!

    now this thing about pain.  I have run 5 marathons and I don't remember any of them HURTING.  I got tired and slowed down in some, and usually the next day my quads were sore.  what hurts? do you mean your legs burn? your socks chafe? what?

  • Gerard Mooney wrote (see)

    PMJ - I'd swap my arms for your legs any day!

     

    I like the colour coordinated tape, pink front and blue back.

    Sporty Badger wrote (see)

    Love the second pic, PMJ. Looks like you won London, not run London!

    SB

    That is a clever photographer. Round Parliament Square they allow a staged crossing of the course, so pedestrians are moved in bunches from one side to an island in the middle while runners pass by on the other side. This means the runners behind me are all off to the right where you dogleg back onto the main course.

    marrows wrote (see)

    PMJ you said you land on your mid-foot so why is your toe in the air like that?

    You just have to ask yourself - would i rather take a risk and crash and burn, or have a plain solid run and maybe have different regrets? I haven't decided yet!

     

    Foot is still off the groundimage

    My plan for this year is again to take the risk. I want to beat 2:50:28 and ideally 2:4x so 2:50:29 is no different to 3:15 and a GFA FOR 2016.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    PMJ - As far as I am concerned the brighter the better. The tape, like me worked up to a certain point, but began to unravel and eventually render itself useless after about 19 miles!image

    Abbers - I have no idea what you mean. One for each arm.image Seriously though, I did a half marathon once and my Garmin failed so I now use my Timex £20.00 watch as a back up. It has a chronograph and that's good enough for me. I've had some nice watches but none as reliable or a robust as my £20.00 Timex.

    Marrows - I did a marathon in October last year and it hurt real bad. Bleeding inner thighs & nips, sore knee, headache, stomach cramps and that was just before it all went horribly wrong at mile 20!

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Talking about, I've been a bit worried about all my slow runs and limited experience at race pace. So this morning I did 3 slow miles to the track, then 3* 6:52 miles. Them 3 genlte miles home. Bloody hard work the thought of 26 at that pace image, but a nice session.

    Then had my massage followed by a massive fry up at the local greasy spoon imageLivin the dream...  

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    Mo Farah follows every session with a fry up, OO-51, so I'd say you're spot on there.

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