Sub 3h15

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  •  hello everyone and welcome to fellow newbies to this thread...

     really enjoying this forum, with its varied training ideas and different goals for 2011.

     Quite like the banter too, no offence Speedy but i bet you ran quicker than you originally wanted to!

    Supposed to run a10k race this morning but because of ice on the course they reduced it to a 5mile, still a bit

    slippery so no fast times...warm down by doing 7.58 av 6 mile afterwards.

  • TR - thanks for sharing about HIM/marathon training. I will focus on time on feet for now and have a mad panic about the HIM and whether I can float and not fall off my bike after VLM.

    Sue/OneGoodLeg - thanks for tips on HRMs. Am definitely going to see if I can use this gadget to help me train more intelligently. Actually, as I have only done one training schedule so far (for my 1.33 half in September) despite running for years, I guess it is not really so late in the game for me as this training stuff is all new to me. Lots to learn!

    DOGS. Can I talk about dogs? We have obviously decided that 4 kids and a horse are not enough and have been talking about getting a dog. I would love a running companion, in particular on those dark mornings before the sun is up. Can anybody advise on the types that can run marathon training distances which are suitable for allergic families living in a city with small children? Labradors and Boxers have been suggested so far and we also have been eyeing up German Shorthaired Pointers.
  • Right then, I'm fed, watered and clean so here goes:

    Following a bad night and a really disconcerting dream I had great difficulty dragging my carcass out of bed this morning, resulting in rushed breakfast of porridge and coffee but no caffeine free liquid. Programmed the GPS and set off. I did think it was taking me in a funny direction, but I trusted it. Until it said I had arrived when quite clearly I had not.

    Some reprogramming later I was back on the road, but worryingly short of time for the cut-off at the transfer desk (it's one of those races that fills up in 2 days in September, but they do allow official transfers until 9.30am on the day). Finally I arrived somewhere I recognised, parked up and leapt on the transfer bus to the start. Leapt off it again and pegged it to the transfer desk, arriving 6 or 7 minutes after it was supposed to have closed. Luckily for me the folks working on there didn't appear to be aware of that! So my number experienced a gender transformation and changed it's name from Paul to Catherine.

    (Sorry, this could be long)

    Hurriedly went to the loo, changed into running kit and deposited bag in the kit store after a couple of slugs of Lucozade. Hmmm, dehydrated much?

    Then it was time to head to the start line already. Bliddy GPS. Grrr.
  • MsE - We've got three German Shepherds. One of them would happily run along with me but of the others one is a too old and rickety and one likes playing too much he'd be hopeless. I have to say I'm never quite sure if they like just running along for very long. Maybe works for a few miles but not sure anything long is really what they want out of a walk - seem to prefer snuffling about, chasing things and interacting with other dogs.

    If you get a biggish breed like a GSD or lab or retriever don't forget you're not supposed to over walk them til they're one cos it csn mess up their hips. What about a collie ??? Would he be on his own during the day ?

  • continued...

    I had located Pete, who wanted sub 1.45, so I said I'd run with him. Helen from club was also with us, she's been cycling but not running lately so was just going with the flow. Pete insisted on starting quite far back for some reason so we spent the first two miles weaving in and out of people, then the first big hill came and we basically mowed them all down. You can easily spot the ones who don't live and train on big hills like the ones where we run.

    Somewhere on this hill (it's about a mile long) we caught two more Redhillians but without realising it, Helen and I had slipped away leaving Pete and the other two behind us. We were having a nice chat, so we just kept on going. At 5 miles we caught and passed another one of ours.

    It's quite a scenic route and mostly enjoyable, but for about 3 miles from 6 to the hill at 9 we had a heavy breather behind us. We were most relieved to hit a hill and leave him behind! Somewhere along the line we passed another clubmate, I think it was around 10 - 11 miles.

    I wasn't paying too much attention to what was going on, we were too busy nattering. Oops. Anyway, we got to mile 12 and there's a mighty downhill for three quarters of a mile, followed by a fairly evil climb to the finish. We attempted to finish together, since we'd run the whole thing together, but the finish line was only one person wide.

    And the comedy gift this year? A stop watch. With a turkey printed on it of course!

    Watch time 1.38.14, gun time 1.38.29. So actually that's faster than VLM 2010 M Pace, and not too far off hoped for VLM 2011 M Pace. Mostly it felt comfortable, only the last hill was really problematic. My lungs aren't quite back yet.

  • continued....

    Splits (oddly they don't reflect the hills at all)
    1) - 1m - 7:59
    2) - 1m - 7:09
    3) - 1m - 7:36 Hill
    4) - 1m - 7:50 Hill
    5) - 1m - 7:25
    6) - 1m - 7:39
    7) - 1m - 7:27
    8) - 1m - 7:38
    9) - 1m - 7:11 Hill
    10) - 1m - 7:19
    11) - 1m - 7:32 Hill
    12) - 1m - 7:28
    13) - 1m - 6:58 Mostly downhill but last quarter mile uphill.
    14) - 0.16m - 1:03(6:42/m)

    Those of you on Facebook can laugh at my dreadful heel strike during that last downhill in mile 13. Someone has, ahem, kindly tagged a photo of me.
  • Kier - I'm pleased my children have passed that stage image

    Sue - I remember you having specific coaching after the SSix; are you continuing for this training or following a generic schedule?

    TR - I would agree with training on the flat for a flat marathon.  Unfortunately, I live in a hilly area and all my runs involve hills.  Sometimes I find this hard in London with the course being so flat.  

    MsE - I have a lab.  She'll be three in January and she is my running companion.  She's great company but I don't tend to take her on the roads unless its a short one.  She's great on the long off road runs. 

    Jane/Fraser - I've not done Lochness but have run some of it during a relay team and cycled some of it during a duathlon.  I've heard nothing but good reports about the marathon.  They do loads of events up there, running and cycling.

    Poacher - I went in the hills today and it was grim.  The air temperature wasn't too cold but underfoot was a mixture of snow (still up to my thighs in places), ice and water.  The coast has been colder than us of late although we did reach -17 last week!   

  • CC2 - Cross post.   Thats brilliant.  What a great confidence boost after your illness and a great way to start your marathon training!
  • Welcome to newbies.  Interesting to hear Pipes' training - not many sub-3 girls whose brains I can pick!

    Nice result, Speedy.  Great to know you haven't lost much fitness despite recent illness.

    Marshalling at XC for me.  Did a 'cop out' 15 miles today by running to Bristol Temple Meads station, running from Bath Spa station to the venue (although that invovled a mile long hill!) and then running everything on the way back.  Very cold day to be sitting around for 5 hours!

    Still, 50M for the week so another tiny step forwards.  From little acorns...

  • Thanks for the info on labs, gsds and german sheps! i am now focusing on vizslas. maginificent! sorry re lack of caps. baby on lap.

    fraser - does the restriction on walking apply to all breeds?
  • Hi all
    back now. phew that was hard with a hangover. 14 miles at av 7.53
    Mile 1 - 7.36 heading north each mile to Mile 14 - 8.12
    Was trying to go faster in 2nd half of run so that didn't work... image
    too much red wine last night then

    Minni - Loch Ness is amazing. Free hot coffee and loads of loos at the start (my kind of race)
    a pipe band (nice and rousing - i do love a bit of the bagpipes) , no "corrals" just line up where you want and only 2,000 runners
    oh and grouse as pacemakers and AMAZING scenery
    its the best!

    MsE - i have a gordon setter. Amazing dog. Loyal. good with kids im told , loves running - Archie was with me all the way up to mile 23 distances for VLM. Unlike labs/retrievers, does not shed . highly recommended for runners. GREAT pacemakerimage
    i see a lot of spaniels with runners too

    CC2 -nice race report!

    Sue C
    Yes i try to do all my steady mileage at 7.45-8mm. yes - close to marathon pb. is that too quick? i really don't what i'm doing yet to be honest. i printed out a RW one Kier recommended and plan to start it on monday ...
    i do struggle to hit the faster paces. perhaps i should slow down then and run say half the miles easy at pace you suggested so i can up the temp for 2nd part of LSR at a more intense pace.
    Barryb - if you are on a beach you may be able to fit in a few long runs if your wife likes having a long lie...depending on amount of cuba libres drunk the night before image the beaches are long in varadero and the esplanade in havana would also make a great run

    im going to work out a plan for next week now ....


    well after i watch strickly image
  • woops sorry - just realsised the cuba info was meant for badbark - its you who is getting married , not barry b image
    much haste .....less speed (and more mistakes)
  • Hello, good evening and welcome to Jane, Pipes and Neil.

    Great (non)race report and even better dead-casual performance from Speedy.

    I've been reading all the way back to Thursday, which is when my phone went dead and the last time I had an internet connection. It only got fixed at lunchtimr today image.

    Seen Better Days wrote (see)

    Running slower is the key to running faster - just ask Antimage

    Jane - I get abuse on here for doing too many of my miles too fast, although for ther VLM campaign I have sort of promisded to take things easier on easy days. In fact, I've started with this already.

    These couple of weeks are going to be a bit weird what with having to work early both yesterday and today meaning noiLSR was really possible, and the fact that next Saturday afternoon I'm doing a 5-m race, followed by the works' Christmas dinner. Still, I'm hoping my 40 mpw-til-the New-Year plan will hold up. This week has looked like this:

    Mon - rest 

    Tues - 10.1m incl. 3x2kms @ 6:29mm + gym session (40 mins bike, weights, abs and 400m swim)

    Weds - 8.8m @ 7:24mm

    Thurs - 6.3m @ 7:17mm

    Fri - Gym session as per Tuesday

    Sat - 10.25m @ 6:53mm (nice and hard, as it were, but doable)

    Sun - 7.25m @ 7:33mm (easy does it)

    Making for a total of 42.7m, which I'm happy with.

  • Hello Ant!
    makes sense now... image
    but the million dollar question is does it work??
    does running slower actually make you run faster ?
    whats your marathon PB please? (7.33 not my idea of easy does it )
  • Jane -  I went to VLM hoping to go sub-3 and I did 2:59:06. I now appreciate that if I did more miles slower I'd be able to assimilate a greater workload and so possibly have greater endurance to hold onto a faster pace for longer.

    Let's see how this running slower lark goes this time around.

  • wow! GREAT time
    ok - understand - keep me posted image
  • Keir wrote (see)

    Like you Lorenzo, I hit the North Downs way today. Planned to do 18m, BarryB style (no food, gels, water, just breakfast as fuel).

    Nice running Keir - sounds like we need to work out how far apart we both live along the North Downs Way and then run with the aim of meeting in the middle! I normally head out west, but have done a couple of runs starting from the Box Hill part but if I'm running in the dark I'd rather have a slight inkling of where I'm going, this might be one for the spring / summer.

    On the "no fuel strategy", Macmillan actually recommends (as an optional top up) not even having anything to eat before you go out although interestingly water and electrolytes are OK

    To quote:

    Finally, (and this is optional) a great way to ensure that you will deplete your carbohydrate stores on these long, steady runs is to not eat any carbohydrates immediately before or during the run. Any carbohydrates ingested will be used by the body for fuel, and we don't want this. We want to deny the body carbohydrates in these runs so that the muscles will become better at sparing the carbohydrate stores, more efficient at burning fat and used to running with lowered blood glucose levels. Now, many people think I'm crazy when I say this, but it works. It takes time to get adjusted to it if you have always been carbing up before and during your long runs, but with time and practice you can do it. I will note, however, that it is important to drink water and electrolytes throughout these runs so that you don't get dehydrated. 

  • Lorenzo - i did this when i started running a year ago and lost 3 stone but i cant seem to cope without fuel on long runs now (feel light headed and slow down so much i almost stop) ...
  • kittenkat wrote (see)

    I'm just mooching round the Internet looking at different training schedules, I'm going to follow a 16wk plan for VLM, which if I've counted the weeks properly, starts on Jan 2nd.

    How much mileage should I do in the next few weeks?And what is the minimum mileage per week that you think a sub 3.15 is possible from?Generally for a fit person.

    That's the 'how long is a piece of string' question, and I don't believe there is a definitive answer. Some people here run 5 or 6 days a week and average 50 miles a week. At the other end of the scale I'm 47 and a 3 day a week low mileage runner. In the 16 weeks prior to my 3:11 at Brighton this year I did smack on 400 miles, so that's an average of 25 miles per week. I had 5 weeks over 30, with peaks of 42 & 43, although one of those was because I did longs runs on a Sunday then the next Saturday so 2 counted in one week. In 2009 when I was defeated by the heat at FLM and did 3:16 I ran 305 miles, so that's around 19 miles per week average. I had 6 weeks over 30, with a peak at 35. For both these campaigns however I was more or less ready to do 20 on week one of the schedule as I'd been building the long run distance up for a few weeks, just as I'm doing now. My first marathon in 2008 (3:26) I averaged only 17 miles per week, and only did one 20 due to injury.

    So I think it's probably safe to say I'm one of the lowest mileage runners on this thread, if not the lowest. When I see those figures written down I often wonder how I've managed to run those times, and wonder what I could do if I did more mileage. I may do a little more this time if I stay fit, but I doubt it will be much more. But it seems to work for me - it fits in with my level of fitness and my lifestyle, and the fragile nature of my legs, but I'm sure for others it would be a complete disaster.

    The most important thing I would say is that whatever you decide to do you have to make sure it's all good quality running and that it all counts. That's what makes the difference for me I think.

  • Thanks for the good tips and encouragement Lorenzo, Poacher, FW and Jane. I will be taking my running kit along and hope to squeeze in a few early morning runs. I also fancy trying some water running in the pool in between cocktails.image

    Good running and nice report Speedy.

  • Lovely race report and good nonchalant result, Speedy!
  • Some really good weekly mileage and long runs from many people. Although I didn't see another runner today, good to hear that you lot are out there as well as me! 

    Good advice there BOTF.

    Running on empty with no breakfast? Fcuk that Lorenzo! I live near Folkestone, you live near Box hill. 70 miles apart I reckon. 35 miles each for us to meet up and 35 miles home again. Fcuk that as well!

    Speedy, you must be 'well chuffed'. Considering how ill you were last month, to run a hilly HM, chatting all the way and get those splits and that time is fantastic. Well done! I reckon it was the disturbing dream that gave you a shot of night time adreneline. Maybe in future eat more cheese the night before a race?

    Jane, use this McMillian Running Calculator to get a guide on pacing. Wish the music didn't come on straight away though. Makes me jump everytime! I don't think the RW schedules are the best. A bit light on M pace runs. However if you win the SSX or follow the SSX threads then the advantage of it is you will be doing the same training sessions. The P&D schedules are the most popular on this forum.

    Speaking of which, interesting that most newbies are not worshippers of P&D. Will they be converted or will we be open to accept new beliefs? image

  • Cheers for the Running for Fitness tip Fraser. Just made a MPH to Pace table for myself to stick onto side of Dready. Have you got your HM training plan yet?

  • Kier - thanks for this
    yes made me jump too image
    i meant to say RT instead of RW (thats the ref you gave in an older post and i printed it out)
    called marathon advantage - 18 weeks to your best marathon - (its the same as above P&D link ) so ill use this then ....
    Phew - hefty mid week runs on a wed though image
    will need to get up at 6am for those
    But it looks like a good plan and definitely the most heavyweight of any i've seen from likes of VLM etc.
  • Jane, there is an up to 55 miles per week plan. For that you would need to buy the book:  Advanced Marathoning. It is pretty much the same plan, but knock off a couple of miles from each session. The book is well worth adding to your Xmas list anyway.

    Edited to add the link image

  • Keir, when they invent dairy free soya free cheese I might try that.

    I'm not a P&D worshipper, but it is on my Christmas list. I write my own schedules and given 2 negative split maras beating my targets and one only slightly positive split mara with a 1st lady finish, I'm sticking with what I know for the time being!
  • you know what...i'm going to give this one a go actually in the run up to April
    i can fit it in i reckon ...
    and if its too much i'll just switch to the 55 mile a week plan ......
    going to amazon now image
  • CC2 - Speedy Goth wrote (see)
    Keir, when they invent dairy free soya free cheese I might try that.
    I'll save any comment for Windy! image
  • Advanced Marathoning arriving Tues am
    Thanks Kier
    im feeling organised now image
    i have a PLAN!
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