Sub 3h15



  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - enjoy your run up in Scotland today.
    PMJ - very close to 30 - excellent effort. Which races are coming up this week?
    Abbers - sounds like a good balanced training plan.
    Rennur - good luck with your deliberations.
    No change here.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Jools - that's a blow. Hope it passes quickly. Plenty of zinc (I think that's the current man 'flu remedy of choice?)!

    GM - Going from 6 runs a week for mara training, I want to get in the same volume of CV work, but from less running to save the legs a bit (bound to get the odd niggle from cricket). Reckon I'll peak at about 40-45 MPW from 4 runs, with additional swim and bike sessions, plus the weekly league game on Saturday afternoons. As I'm not mara training, that should suffice for 10k/HM training.

    Rennur - ah, the chattering monkeys. Don't listen to them! They lie.image

    Gul - continued healing vibes.

  • Some great results and running over the weekend.

    Minni - a lot of racing in 10 days! Hope the physio conditioning works with ther hip

    Jools, a sub 40 with the early stages of flu is a good'un.

    SJ - 112 miles of hilly riding!

    PMJ - so close to sub 30. I ran that exact time in 2012 not knowing how close I was and gutted as I haven't been close to it since.... I'm sure with the extra training you'll be dipping into the 29.xx soon.

    Welcome back Rennur

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    PMT-cracking time there.

    Lorenzo-nice mara pace run.

    Joolska-manflu is serious alright

    Abbers -nice 10

    Gul-get well soon.

    My shoulder was only a cramp and disappeared very quickly ,My "hammy" issue appears to be the tendon that extends up from the back of the knee up the idea what its called yet and walking was a bit sore yesterday so I decided to go out with Mrs H and consume sirloin/chicken 50/50 and Banoffie pie washed down with a few beers.It didnt help my leg but it did help image Rest day today as well ...

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Leslie - sounds like the perfect recovery diet!

    Lunch was meant to be 3 x 2 miles off ~2 min recoveries. Ended up with 12:49 for the first rep, 12:57 for the second and then sacked it and jogged back as overcooked it! Knew I'd gone too hard by halfway through the 2nd rep, so decided then to bin the final rep, and instead push hard to finish the 2nd. So quite pleased with the pace, but need to work on the fitness & speed endurance, which has dipped a bit post-mara. Still, a decent enough session adding up to 8 in total.

  • Rennur, that 18 with 14 MP is the best indication you will get of true MP and it looks like you have it fine.

    In my opinion, a half is too short to judge MP from. I know that I can blast hard for an hour and so a half is just holding on after a good 10 mile run and that is very different to a controlled 26 mile marathon.

    Gul, next races are a 10k pairs relay on Thursday done as 1k on, 1k off so really km reps, then a 10k on Sunday and the target has to be 37:46 to hit 80% WAVA. That would be the same as 30:01 for 5 miles and I did 30:09 last Sunday so as long as the wind drops I should be on for it. The following Friday is a fast 5k and i need to start moving towards at 17.xx so a low 18 would be what I want.

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Rennur- If you want to go sub 3 you need a 1:23 half time or better if you are a bloke , ladies seem to be able to go sub 3 with a slightly slower half time .( I don't make the rules ! image )

    2 miles walked tonight , making Jurassic improvements now .....image

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    image I disagree a little on this. To run a 1:23 half, you need a sub 3 marathon. Well, that is my approach!

    I have come to see half marathons as an unwanted interruption to marathon training. It never proved to be a decent guide to MP and messes up training whereas a 20M race revealed lots. Pity 10 and 20M races are now the poor cousin to half marathons.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    It seems to vary a lot even for blokes. I find 1:23 much easier than sub 3 hours.

    Fast 10k with some work pals today, starting steady but blasting the last mile in 6 mins. Hoping to end the slide at the parkrun this Saturday- 18:30 would be nice.

    How's the leg Gul?

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Leslie - hope your improvement continues.
    Abbers - that's still a good session.
    PMJ - pairs relay sounds good.
    OO - nice 10k. No change on the leg. I've been trying to self-diagnose and have given up. Last time I had this issue it took a week or so to improve, then came back again after running. And 3 weeks wasn't enough to cure it. Oh well, it's only running.

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Keep the faith Gul

    It was a wet Tuesday in Stoke which made last night's recovery run less than glamorous. Bit of a contrast to Sunday's rural beauty. Very hilly too. Legs shredded. Must trust the taper
  • Also-ran wrote (see)

    Pity 10 and 20M races are now the poor cousin to half marathons.

    Have to agree on that. Just because it has the word marathon in it, the half is now a popular event so people do 5k, 10k, half and full and miss out on the traditional 5 mile, 10 mile and 20 mile races.

    At least there is now a bit of a resurgence in the mile race so maybe we are moving in the right direction.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Nice 10k from OO there.

    Any chance you could get along to a fizzio Gul?

    More 5 & 10 mile races would be nice to add a bit of variety to the plethora of 5 & 10k events that are around.

    No training to report today, but I have seen elsewhere (including the local press here) that Marigold will be running the mara for England at the Commonwealth Games later in the summer. A superb achievement, and will be glued to his blog to follow his training. 

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    That’s brilliant news about Steve Way making the Commonwealth games. He’s a true inspiration. I’m using his training as a guide but about 1:30 a mile slower and about 75% the volume.

    Just 9 days after my back to back 50k and Marathon I went for my longest planned run this morning. I took the day off work and starting at 6 am ran to a local playing field for over 70 laps on grass. I returned to my house for a quick pit stop having covered 26.5 miles. I told my wife I’d be back in 56 minutes and to have my daughter ready in the running stroller.image I returned after another 7 miles and then took Babybark out for 3 more.

    So by the time I was back to my house again I had run 36.5 miles which was already my longest ever run. I still felt strong so ran another 6 including a sub 7 penultimate mile to see if I could. So a grand total of 42.5 miles covered in 5 hours 37 mins averaging just under 8 minute mile pace. All completed before noon!image

    This is a massive confidence booster for the 100k next month as I found the run comfortable and didn’t suffer any muscle cramps or niggles at all. I took nothing more than a mouthful of raisins and a few gulps of water before the start and 2 litres of homemade energy drink and 2 homemade vegan energy bars during the run. I did lose 5 lbs body weight! Here is the formula for the energy bars in case anyone is interested -

    Next up is the Newry Marathon in 11 days which will be my last hard/long training session before the 100k 20 days later. 

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Wow BB - that's a mighty impressive training run, both physically and mentally. 70 laps and then another 16 miles on top of that? With a sub-7 at the end just to see if you could? Bodes very well for your upcoming event I'd think. I know Newry is a training exercise rather than a full on raced marathon, but is there a particular aim time-wise?

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    Abbers wrote (see)

    I know Newry is a training exercise rather than a full on raced marathon, but is there a particular aim time-wise?

    Thanks Abbers. I’m not sure what time I’ll aim for at this stage. I intend to run about 20 miles in the Mourne mountains the day before the marathon so may just run at around 8 minute mile pace. However, that was my plan for Belfast and ended up running it at 7:15 pace!image I’ll decided during the first few miles.

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    Very, very impressive, Badbark ! That's a bit quicker than my (latest) marathon pace !!
    Nice touch taking Babybark for a spin en-route.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Wow indeed- 42 miles in under 6 hours- amazing Badbark.

    Another 10k for me today. Slower and wetter but job done. My knee is getting no better but I'm just ignoring it.

  • This is probably the best thing I've ever read on the internet:

    "Get the baby ready, will ya?  I'll be back in 56 minutes to take her for a run."

    Not, "about an hour or so".  That would be madness, obviously. 
    "56 minutes." 

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Badbark - That is some dedication, hats off to you and also like the babybark part!

    We have about 8k races here but no 5 miles and have one 10 miler which is actually 9.7 miles!

    5k run with a friend tonight avg 6:32 pace but felt hard in sections. Nice high tide and very warm. Saw my son playing footie on the beach as we ran past which made me speed up a bit too much!image

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Badbark image you are one hard fella. Is there one key vegan dish to which you ascribe your remarkable energy?

    Nice one GM, it doesn't get much better than beach running



    Final results from Dukeries ultra 40 - 8th place, 6hr57, just 10 runners under 7hrs but still feels like a really poor outing image should have been nearer 6.30.


  • PJFrizzlePJFrizzle ✭✭✭


    I've run 21 @ 7.15 

    4 20 plus LSRs

    half race @1.30

    millions of hills or yasso 800's at 3.00 or faster


    im I being conservative aiming for 3.15 should you push it harder on race day?

  • PJFrizzle, conventional wisdom suggests you could go faster than 3:15, but conventional wisdom doesn't always take circumstances into account. Will there be a headwind in the last 6 miles? Will you wake up on race day feeling great? Will you have had a taper that works for you? Any latent injuries that'll rear their ugly head at mile 22 if you've pushed hard? Are you the sort of person that converts a half to a full well?

    If you go out at, say, 3:07 pace and burn out and walk to a 3:24, will you be gutted? 

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Poacher - is Stoke more glamorous when it's not raining? Don't be too hard on yourself over that performance.
    Abbers - in an ideal world, a visit to the the fizz would be in order, but I'm too stingy.
    Badbark - that is just jaw-droppingly staggering!
    OO - sounds like a plan.
    GM - speedy little jaunt.
    PJFrizzle - unfortunately there's only one way to find out! Good luck whatever target you go for.
    7 days on the bench now. Tiniest hint of an improvement - continuing with trying to strengthen the muscles in the ankle/lower calf area.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    PJF- 3:15 looks about right to me. On the day you tend to get excited and go too fast if you are not careful- the pace should feel easy and not a stretch- if you are working too hard you'll pay for it later. Just keep thinking about the last 6- are you going to be able to keep the pace. I always slip a bit at the end have avoided the wall in my last few maras by sensible pacing.

  • Gul - sounds as though there's a bit of light at the end of the tunnel. I'd think seriously about investing in a trip to the fizz if I were you. Given how much you've invested in the campaign so far, I would have thought it's worth a bit of cash to make sure you get to the start and finish line successfully.

    PJFrizzle - welcome. I would say that sub 3:15 is doable, but you'll need to pace yourself well on the day. 7:20s (work on 3 miles in 22 mins) would get you to 24 miles in 2:56 which will give you a decent margin in case the last few get tough. When and where is the race?

    Poacher - no shame in 8th place. How soon before Comrades will you fly out? I'm just thinking about next year!!

    Badbark - nice gentle, er, 42 miler there! Particularly impressive how strong you were still feeling at the end.

    40 miles on the bike yesterday going to and from work - lovely weather, especially the journey home. Ladder intervals done and dusted this morning - I hate speedwork!

  • PJFrizzlePJFrizzle ✭✭✭

    Thanks guys for the advice I'd be over the moon with 3:15 and would still consider 3:19 a success. Tend to be more on the cautious side as I'm diabetic and once the blood sugars crash then its game over really. I was thinking 7:30mm then push it if it feels good. Like you say 00 i'd rather avoid the wall and still get a time i'm pleased with. Rennur, yeah all valid points. Its abit of a learning curve as ive been running for ages but only run one HM race . I'm confident in that the training has gone to (a 3:15) plan, feel good in the taper and actually understand nutrition now. i'll report back after the 25th and let you know the story, as I'm sure there will be one, there always is!         

  • PJFrizzle, how hard did that 1:30 half feel? Marathon is double the distance and something like 3:10 means doing the half but only 5 minutes sower and then doing it all over again. Make sure you get to half way feeling easy, then get to 20 and review the situation. You can always speed up if you feel strong but you have to slow down if you feel tired.

  • PJFrizzlePJFrizzle ✭✭✭

    Thanks Philip - the 1:30 was everything I had at that point in time. Started out on the 1:40 pacer then after 4 miles felt i had more and pushed it. That said it was in October before I had even put together my marathon plan in fact it was the catalyst that made me think I could aim for 3:15. Training has gone well so that why I'm asking the question. I'll take you advice, it seems that its rare to be able to 'bank' time without the wheels coming off. Really looking forward to this one!  


  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    Poacher wrote (see)

    Badbark image you are one hard fella. Is there one key vegan dish to which you ascribe your remarkable energy?



    I would say the most important thing about my diet is eating a large variety of whole foods. I try to avoid anything processed and even make my own bread and wine.image  I believe my diet helps recovery and after 5 years of running without ever missing a single day of training due to illness or injury I must be doing something right!

    A typical day would be something like this –


    Oats, bran, banana, raisins, pecans, walnuts, hazelnuts, spices, cocoa, rice milk and hibiscus tea

    Mid morning

    Carrot, almond butter on oat cakes, pear, dates, brazil nuts, cashew nuts, almonds, ginger and green tea


    Almond butter sandwiches, apple, raisins, apricots, brazil nuts, cashew nuts, almonds, ginger, dark chocolate and chai tea


    A variety of steamed veg containing about half of these each day  - peppers, onion, cabbage, spinach, kale, garlic, tomato, brussel sprouts, mushrooms, cauliflower, carrots, avocado, sweet potato, celery, cucumber,  broccoli, peas, beans, chickpeas and beetroot.

    I make a sauce with ground sesame, flax, sunflower, pumpkin seeds, pistachio nuts and herbs and spices. I make a desert with fresh lemon, almond butter, tahini, walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans and spices. Peppermint tea with dark chocolate.  

    Late evening

    Soup made with vegan protein powder, ground seeds and spices. Also 2 x kiwis, carrot and dates.

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