Sub 3h15



  • GM, I wouldn't put myself in the wise category, but I do train by HR. That's pretty much the whole thing with HADD training. Dialing in your effort zones and then doing the right amount of high vs low intensity training. Come race day you have a really good feel for where your lactate threshold is and how to stay just under it so you don't blow up. At least that's the idea in theory. I have a feeling most of you already know these zones by feel, but you might be surprised if you started following HR. For me it's a great metric of fitness too. And I can follow how my pace at a given HR tracks as I build up my aerobic engine. In general, my weekly marathon training looks essentially like this: 2 subLT runs (each ~13-15 miles with 10 miles at 80-85% of HRmax), a long run (can be LSR or a progressive depending on  the week), and the rest of the runs all at ~70% or less of maxHR. The subLT runs start around 80% and as you master them (even pace vs HR over the whole distance) you keep slowly increasing the HR you run for these. My 80% HR is 160. I tend to average ~163-166 for the whole marathon. Ideally, I would do the above training until I could do the marathon at 175ish...which would be about 87% of max. But then again, to do it I'd need to quit my job and probably triple my weekly mileage. Anyway, I've been at this for about 3 years now so slowly building fitness and getting faster.

    Fizz says my left side is "jacked"! Hips not aligned (my major issue always). So got a plan together, got some good work done on the foot, and was reminded to think again about better heel to toe running (for the PF). 6 miles in soaking rain after and all feels pretty good. Definitely haven't shaken off the fatigue of marathon recovery plus recent stomach bug (which lingers on).

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭

    . Double post


  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    VTR - Thanks for that info. I have no idea what my max HR is but am keen to experiment with some different things in the future. My last two marathons were ruined by injury and my next one is in October, so the priority is to get to the start line fit with a decent campaign behind me.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    GM, I used a HRM for a couple of years the info was interesting and useful, but after that I felt I wasn't learning anything new and don't wear one now. It's worth a try. I never tried threshold training, sounds like it needs a lot of discipline. Always worth trying something new but there are few miracle cures..

    Another double day here, 11 miles over 2 runs. The week is back on track image


  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    SJ - good PB.
    GM - 5 metres from the beach sounds good. Can't help with the HR. Usually run to feel as I can't be sure of my pace either other than in retrospect.
    Poacher - no explanation other than the heat.
    Abbers - keep icing - hope there's some improvement soon.
    VTr - at least you have a plan now!
    OO - nice double double!
    10 steady miles @ 7:38 m/m.

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    00-51- nice double image

    Gul- good paced 10 miler, back on track by the look of it.

    Abbers - good-luck with the test jog

    6.5 miles last night with 4x800m thrown in at around 3:07/lap after doing the first one far too hard (2:56) felt good too get some speed back and hammys were fine .image

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭

    VT, I applied a bit of Maffetone style HR training last year for IM training so pretty much nothing over 138 bpm but averaging around 12 hrs per week over the last 20weeks and I was certainly fitter than I'd ever been, felt fresh(ish) and stayed healthy so HR training worked very well for me. I was faster too but only downside was absolutely no top top end speed.  I've followed a similar approach this time too but sprinkled in some speed work here and there (only a bit though) to see what happens.

    GM, that's a lot of biking for me - trying to a) get used to the new bike and b) overload a bit to bounce back in time for my race. That's the theory anyway.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    SJ - well, as long as it looks good... image

    GM - 3 miles at sub-7 without too much effort sounds OK to me.

    VTR - do you have follow up trips to the fizz lined up?

    OO-51 - nice double.

    Gul - good steady miles.

    Leslie - good news that the hammys stood up to the 800s.

    So, 5 mile fitness test. Not 100%, but it's definitely improving. Still a little tight and the odd twinge, but should be fit enough to play on Saturday (weather permitting) especially as I won't then be doing anything until Wednesday through a combination of a short camping trip with the family and tickets for Wimbledon next Tuesday.

  • 1 mile track race yesterday. This was at Barnet Copthall where Shaftesbury Barnet Harriers meet so the track records are David Bedford, Anthony Whiteman
     and Julian Goater. The event was 11 graded races and I was in race 8. Splits were 1:18 (for 409 m), 1:17, 1:22 and 1:19 for 5:17.5. That third lap was a bit of a disappointment and I feel it was pacing errors so too fast early on, then a dip and then chase for home. The seeding was also not so good. It looks like my race was the last one before the real fast boys started so we had the "elite" ladies but it was obvious they were not so fast and luckily there was one other fast senior male who I pushed all the way and kept him honest and got me a good time too.

  • GM, re heart rate training: what VTr said; my only additional thought is that it gives me a sense of improvement over time. Currently, I'm running at 60% of max heart rate range about 15 seconds per mile faster than last year.

    The other thing is that my heart rate is outlandishly high, it suggests that I'm coming down with something lurgy and that I should back off. (That said, however, I've been having problems with the reliability of my HR strap, so I have to keep that in mind.)
  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Moving on tonight so the last 2 gymfails...but they're classics:

    1) girl on treadie in denim jeans, and on her feet, pumps (bit like ballet shoes, not very robust, and with sequins). Didn't look comfortable. Also a bit slippery.
    2) women on weights machine pumping iron with right arm, holding baby in left arm. The health & safety police wouldn't like either of these.

    15sec/m on the same HR is a cracking improvement Rennur, nice one and shows the benefit of quantifiability, if that's actually a word.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Poacher - Bonkers stuff going on over there.

    Thanks all for the comments on HR training. Will experiment at some stage.

    8 miles tonight, very warm again but with a light breeze. Felt good until about 5 miles and then got a bit of a knot in my tummy. Avg pace 7:20 but felt as bit tired between 5-7 and then recovered well to enjoy the last mile. Very high tide and was tempted to go for a dip but was getting late and still conscious of the lingering chest infection.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Leslie - nice reps; looking good.
    Abbers - good to hear you're almost there again. Enjoy the cricket, camping and tennis.
    PMJ - excellent mile racing - is that a PB? And good to know you can still see room for improvement.
    Poacher - It was funnier before you edited gymfail #2!
    GM - good run - hope the recovery from the chest infection is speedy.
    8 slow miles @ 8:53 m/m this morning.

  • marrowsmarrows ✭✭✭

    Thanks TR and SJ for the advice.  Now i have two opposite instructions for the bike ('ride it like you stole it' from TR, 'steady' from SJ) which is nice - can do whatever I please and plead Nuremberg

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Marrows - image

    Another 6 miles @ 7:41 m/m for me today for my longest work lunch run ever. 6 tomorrow and 14 on Sunday will see me up to 40 for the week. This week is a bit of an experiment for me as I need/want to be in the ballpark of 55-60 mpw in a few weeks time. If I can get one MLR during the week and one LR on the weekend it shouldn't be too difficult or disruptive to find the rest over 4 days. I have never done a MLR mid week run before and must say it was nice to skip supper last night and get out for an hour or so. What sort of pace do folks recommend for these MLR's? Is it similar to LR's?? Have a good weekend all!

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    I do my MLRs at a similar pace to LSRs.  Sounds like the lurgy is pretty much behind you, GM.

    Best of luck, Marrows image

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Jools - Thanks. I was thinking that and also need to be running my long runs slower. 8mm should be ok? Yes, 8 days is a long time for me to be crook.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    GM - sounding promising. And yes, MLRs similar pace to LSRs.
    19 miles @ 8:31 m/m d&d this morning.

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    well I was actually running 2 minutes before Gul  posted this week ! 2 miles less also, - 17 nice and steady with my Saturday chums  . . .

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Gul - You must have set off before or around 4am! And here's me struggling to get up at 6am to do some mid-week runs!

    Birch - Ticking along nicely I see.

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭

    Gul is mental. Fact.

    I was up at 5 to get out on the bike and felt horrible. Don't know how he does it and he's up and out much earlier.

    Bike fully adjusted to fit my freakishly proportioned body - "you've got short arms!" was the fitter's opening gambit yesterday. New position is much more aggressive and aero and also much more comfortable. Felt great today and cut through the breeze. 

    Comparison with road bike on exactly the same rep course:

    Road bike last week: 95miles in 5:30

    Tri bike this week: 100miles in 5:14

    Money well spent image. I just need to find a pair of trainers that can have the same impact on my running!

  • Evening folks. Sorry I've not been around for a while. Real life got in the way. It would take a week to read back, so can anyone tell me if I've missed anything major? 

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    You have missed me losing some more toenails.  Well worth logging in to update on such vital info.

    In other news - Slokey is hard as nails, Gul gets up before he goes to bed, everyone else has had manflu. That covers it. What have you been up to.

  • Narrowly avoiding being scammed by a bunch of conmen and generally panicking about it a lot. Now I get to spend another 2 months with no kitchen and have to buy one I can't afford on credit but from a reputable supplier. Ho hum. Oh, I also finished 2nd at a summer league race and ran 5.30.5 for a track mile. 

    What page are the toenail piccies on. I need to make sure I don't accidentally come across them!

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Trust me, you would take toenails over walnuts anyway...image

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭

    Stop reminding us of that Poacher!

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭


    Mixed day for me at the Cotswold Way Relay yesterday: I had the same leg as last year and was in first (lady, not overall) when I went off course, covering an extra 0.4M or so.  By the time I was back on course I'd dropped back to 3rd and although I caught 2nd (and finished only 1 minute slower than last year), it's a bit galling to think I must have thrown 3 minutes away.  Oh, and the diversion was on a very overgrown footpath, and I am now covered in many, many scratches.  It does look like I made a rather half-hearted attempt to cut my throat....!

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭

    It's only a race Jools. No need for drastic action....image

    2.5hra round and round the field - done - glorious morning.

  • Walnuts? I don't think I want to know!

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