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My legs were a bit toasted and so only 15th in xc today when 10th-12th would have been on a par with other races. Still, 68 is my biggest week in this cycle so it was always going to be a bit of an ask. And the key race is VLM: I wouldn't want to be peaking now!
SCC well done on the 1:29 great running
Good XC Jools, good miles too
Speedy nice 20 and goo miles
48.7m for me this week, with 15.17m today after yesterdays XC, so happy with that.
Take care
49 mile week topped off with a 1:23:28 half. I'll do a full report later but a nice bottle of red has precedence.
88:59 for a potential MP run for me at Wokee. Great to run in shorts and a t-shirt. Set of with the intent of pulling a few Dashers round to a sub 90 but by 6 miles had 15-20 in a group with me in all types of vests. There's an odd mile at Wokee (10-11) that's just a bit harder than any of the others (6:51) but otherwise OK. 64 for the week, my longest ever (and without a 20!).
I'm very pleased to see Jools say that there is still time to peak as I'm still definitely maybe.
MsE, let me pick out your run to comment on as special. Who ever adds on extra miles at TMP?! Great running!
Another great weekend of running on here.
ssc - great new PB and into strong headwinds
MsE - a very tasty run and fast paced lies. Looking good!
Brilliant 4 mile come back run Minni
Great XC RFJ, always good to get under 7mm on that terrain.
Brilliant half marathon time PMJ and well paced!
Another top hal marathon time Wool and weekly mileage too.
Talking of weekly mileage, don't know how you fit it all in Leslie & Speedy!
Gull - you've put in some good consistent weeks of training, I'm sure that fitness will still be there after a short lay off. Don't give up hope.
Did a good 20 mile progressive run yesterday morning and broke it into small chunks. 6 miles @ 7.50m/m, 5 miles @ 7.25m/m, 4 miles @ 7.08m/m, 3 miles @ 6.45m/m, 2 miles @ 7.27m/m. Recovery run tonight took me up to 63 miles for the week.
MsE - wow, yes, the rest seems to have worked wonders! Good MP.
Birch - still shorts weather here too - in fact I think it's 2 years since I've worn leggings!
ssc - well paced HM.
Speedy - and you are flying too!
Jools - good going in a 68 mile week.
RFJ - a solid week of running.
PMJ - excellent HM - look forward to the report.
Wool - nice sub 90.
KR - tasty 20 miler.
Long runs, monster weekly miles, speedy half maras, impressive x-country performances... great stuff all.
Minni - racing yourself fit again then?
Nothing so exciting to report here, just a pretty mundane 13 early yesterday morning to fit in around various celebrations for littlest Ms A's 5th birthday.
OK, Wokingham report.
So rolled up early and parked close by the start in a residential area to avoid faffing round with baggage drop etc. I don't know why but Wokingham always seems to be a cold race prior to the start: I guess it is one of the earliest half marathons so it probably is simply the fact that it is cold but also many races seem to start in sports centres or scout huts etc so there is the chance to sit inside for a while. Numbers were down on previous years but the event was sold out. When I look at finishers, I see 2,185 finished in 2013 and 1,670 this year, so over 500 fewer. The race was cancelled in 2014 and numbers rolled over and I think the organisers made a mistake by renewing all entries by default: I didn't even have to reply to an email to get my number rolled over and as doing nothing is the easiest option, I am sure that is what most did. I bet a lot of those 500 were non-runners doing a marathon in 2014 as a bucket list event and had no interest at all in running a half in February 2015.
Shuffled off for a nominal warm-up but while I definitely need a warm up for shorter distances, 13 miles is best tackled on fresh legs and a slow first mile is a good substitute for a warm up. It was good anyway as we ran the last half mile of the course to get a reminder of it for when we do it in real 13 miles later.
Bit of messing round hanging outside the gents waiting for someone who was not there and eventually got into place next to the sub 1:25 starting sign. Those nearby were clearly not sub 1:25 and in normal circumstances I would have pushed forward but wanted a controlled run so didn't.
First 10km were fairly straight forward. The plan was to run at 4 minutes per km but rather than hit 4 as an average I was trying to ensure I didn't go as slow as 4, so kept on knocking out 3:5x kms and got to 10km in 39:03. There were a few windy sections but early on there were plenty of bunches to tuck into and avoid it. Needless to say the first few kms were just solid with slower runners completely misjudging pace.
At this point a tall Farnham Runner passed me and I settled down about 20 metres back from him and followed him as he picked off runners one by one. By now, the pace was starting to tell a bit and rather than holding it back to hit 4 I was having to keep an eye on pace and push on a bit to keep it even. Through 16 km (10 miles) in 62:47 which is a good sign for later this spring for the Maidenhead 10 mile.
The nature of the race then changed. From 10 to 16 km, it was just a gradual catching up of runners ahead, but nothing drastic. Two things changed: runners who had got the pace wrong started to come back really fast but also there seemed to be a steady stream of runners coming through very string at the finish: presumably people who were doing it as a structured run. This made it a lot harder to judge pace as holding position was no longer a good guide. 10 to 11 is also a hard part of Wokingham with the motorway bridge and the climb up through the wood which you just don't even notice on the way out but tell on the way back in.
Got to 18km in 71 minutes and knew that if I produced the last 3 km at 4 minute average it would be 1:23.xx so just knuckled down and knocked off 4:01, 4:00 and 4:02 and then a little flourish for the last 97.5m at 5:16 pace.
1:23:27 on the Garmin, 1:23:28 on chip so happy with that. Plan was 1:24:23 so basically I held that minute I had up on plan at 10km all the way to the end. Overall it was nice to get a 83.xx after a few years of posting 84.xx.
Looking at the results, noticed Peter Thompson from BAC who was the sub-3 RW guy for Paris in 2011. Last year he went sub 2:30 at Berlin so good progression.
PMJ – great report and congratulations on a very well executed race. I think your marathon target is 3:09:xx? If so, that HM time seems to make a mockery of it. Looks like you are in sub 3 shape or pretty close to it?
P.S. –“ Those nearby were clearly not sub 1:25…” I liked this comment. Any particular distinguishing features that led you to this conclusion??
Wool – congrats to you too. If that turns out to be MP, happy days.
ssc – well done on the sub 90.
KR – Great progressive 20 miler
Speedy – impressive mileage. Frightening, in fact.
Jools – impressive XC-ing during a heavy training week. No doubt you would have placed even higher on fresh legs.
MsE – Injury? What injury?? Great MP run but do be careful. We want you to stay off the bench now.
PMP run for me this morning. A chastening way to start the week. 10m @7:21 pace. Helped by a couple of traffic lights allowing me to catch my breath in the last couple of miles but as the last one was a 7:09 that suggests I would probably have held it together anyway. First time I have managed 10 at MP during this training plan so pleased to get it bagged.
Experience tells me that this is one of the most effective runs for delivering fitness improvements. At this stage it is really somewhere between current MP and LT pace so it is a long time to be running that hard. Whilst it is tempting to think “if that is MP, there is no way I could do 26 of them”, the reality is that it’s a tough run to do on your own and tends to be a pretty good guide to likely MP on the day.
Any other views on "most effective training sessions"?
SSC- great half mara .
Wool - if that's mara pace you will do well
KR- good hard 20 miler.
Abbers - must be your longest run in some time.
PMJ- great run ,good to see you are on the up again , looking good for that sub 60 min 10 miler
GE- mara pace in training is always too hard if it wasn't you are aiming too low
GE, "most effective training sessions"? I am of the opinion that the long run is the training session but after that the MLR is the one that makes so much difference. If you do a single long run each and every Sunday then you have a week to recover. The MLR breaks that up so however you look at it, you are either backing up the long run with a medium one on tired legs a few days later, or you are doing a medium and a fw days later you do a long run with less than fresh legs. 10@MP is a big session and, as you say, will feel hard but if you can do it solo in the campaign it is a good indicator for later.
Guide to runners who are not sub 1:25 half marathoners. So the pair close by who arrived together and then proceeded to carefully pin numbers on the back of tracksuit tops, then realised that they would not run in the tracksuits so carefully unpinned the numbers and then re-pinned then to the back of top below, then pulled fuel belts out of their bags and realised that the belts and the numbers would clash, so another re-pinning higher up, then the filling of the fuel belts with 5 bottles each and "do you think 10 gels will be enough?".
I notice on Stava that the guy who set out at the start of the year to top 6,640 miles has withdrawn from the high mileage challenge and "only" just topped 100 miles last week including 12.7 miles at 18:22 per mile and 10km on the bike.
morning everyone,
I've been lurking in the shadows for a while, following with interest. some great running going on at the moment, and looks like peoples marathon builds are going well!
I'm trying to get some advice from a few sources just to see what people think - managed to run a 1.23.10 yesterday at Wokingham - a good 4 minute PB. My original mara target was 3.15 for London, but I'm now wondering if I should reassess this? I'm cautious because my marathon PB is only 3.29 but I feel like I should be running a lot faster than this (3.05 and London GFA is a tempting prospect).
PMJ - our paths may well have crossed at some point yesterday!
Any wise words would be greatly appreciated - I'll try and post and bit more often when I can!
Ummmm, so coming up to the finish there was this guy behind me
who ended up ahead of me with a big smile on his face
and if that is you, indeed our paths crossed.
Ha - I can confirm that was indeed me. Great running out there, seeing you ahead in the distance definitely dragged me on when times got dark near the end. It was a 4 minute PB for me, so unchartered territory and really at max effort. I can ensure you the smile at the end was not down to coming past you - more of happiness that it was all over!
Which marathon are you training for, and any thoughts on adjusting from the 3.15 goal?
PMJ - while there's no waiter service in the changing rooms at Wokee, I always find them a hospitable refuge ahead of the race! Again, nice running.
GE - nice running indeed. I know that my own 18 w 10 at TMP was harder than my 13.1 in company yesterday.
I've always focussed on the tempos as a real confidence booster. That said I am really seeing how all the P&D sessions fit together this time around. Even the strides which seem to be helping the tempo which seems to help the TMP. I guess that means all the sessions are key to me!
br: you are in the same spot as I was last spring. I ran 83:16 as a nice HM PB and then flopped to a 3:13 mara. There's a big difference in the 2 races but if you can get the endurance base up then I'm sure than you can go much faster than the 3:15 you had in mind.
My plan is this: run sub 83 at Reading HM and then sh*t or bust sub 3 attempt at VLM. Easy when it's written, just a bit of training required between then and now! Good luck!
Whatever the reason, I won't ever deprive a runner of a smile at the finish.
I am training for the Spring Shakespeare and aiming for sun 3:10 to get into London 2016 as a V50 for a sub 3 run. That makes all my running look odd this year as I am really in sub-3 form (6:52 a mile) but pretending I am racing 23 seconds a mile slower at 7:15 a mile.
Really a half tells you very little about a full marathon other than gives you some sort of upper limit, so 1:23 for you yesterday caps the full to about 2:56 (roughly double and add 10 is a reasonable for athletes round our mark).
In 2011 I ran 1:22:15 for a half and then 2:57 (double + 12.5 minutes) and then in 2012 I run 1:19:34 and then 2:50 (double + 11 minutes). Knocking that 7 minutes off was just as much, if not more, about a better conversion rather than just concentrating on better speed. Speed helps, but a marathon is 26.2 miles and you need to be able to deliver over all 26.2 miles. If you struggle even over the last 2 or 3 miles, you can loose big chunks of time.
So, what is your marathon raining like? The rule of thumb here is to get your longest 5 runs to be 100 miles or more, so 5x20 miles or 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 etc. Also note my earlier comment today, so a half on fresh legs is very different to e.g. Wool doing it at the end of a 60 mile week. I took the edge off the legs on Saturday pacing 21 minutes at parkrun.
At the moment I wouldn't worry too much about the goal. London is still far enough away and the best thing to do is to put in solid training and then make up your mind closer to the time. In 2011 I started looking at sub 3:15 and ended up with 2:57 so it is all possible.
Love the photo: grumpy PMJ, Brixton rubbing his hands with glee
Why thank you! I've been working hard on the grumpy for many years. Just need to get the manic level a bit more under control now. 3 daughters in the house, need to practice for boyfriends.
brixtonrunner - welcome. Very impressive HM performance there and a notable scalp in the shape of PMJ. If you have been lurking over the last few weeks you may have seen that someone on here (and it may well have been PMJ himself, I'm not sure) expressed some views on sprint finishes. I think the bottom line is you owe him a pint.
All's fair in love, war and running if you ask me.
The rule is a pint if you try and sprint and fail to pass. Brixton passed me so no pint needs to be exchanged.
That's a great way to introduce yourself to the thread Brixtonrunner, making a sneaky overtaking move on a thread old faithful
. Great running by both of you.
5.5 recovery miles here- it's gonna be a tough week so needed to get in early.
Brixtonrunner - just to give you some input from the slower end of the spectrum. My half pb is 1:27 and my marathon pb is 2:57. So don't be too put off by these scary half times you see.
But to do a sub 3 off of my sort of half time requires some pretty serious/obsessive endurance training as well as a single minded focus on the one goal.
Sub 3:15 should be really comfortable. My first ever marathon I did 3:12 off of a 1:33 half pb
PMJ - Hehe you are just classic! Love it, oh and btw what was the celebratory bottle of red like?
Brix - Welcome and indeed what an intro. Great half time and mahoosive pb Loving your smiley face at the finish. Nice work!
So many inspiring performances over the past few days, well done to all esp Wool and ssc, great half's and delighted to hear that Minni is making a comeback and a duathlon! Bliddy marvellous!
MsE - that was a stonker of a run from you btw. You are very good!
Gul - Glad to hear that all is not lost and if MsE is anything to go by then you will be good for yours. Fingers crossed for ya and VTR too!
Did a bit of running myself over the past week, most of it easy apart from a 6.8 miler in 45 mins dead. Was pleased with that without a warm up and then managed to get out in the glorious sunshine for a 13 miler which was meant to be easy but ended up stalking some guy from 9 miles out and passed him with 3 or so to go and he decided to hang around so pushed it slightly and ended up dropping him with a mile to go to finish in 7:20 average for the 13, not bad considering I was out on a mad one the night before. Think the slow forst 8 miles helped. Can't beat a game of hunter oops now I'm being hunted.
Very fine indeed. I play the Tesco price match lottery. The game is in three steps, so step one is to order a bottle of wine which says £10 down to £5 and we both know it really isn't a £10 bottle but is probably better than your average £5 bottle. With these offers, there is always a chance of the bottle not being on the shelf, so step two is when the picker selects another bottle. Step 3 is when you choose to either keep the alternative or return it. This week the alternative to a "£10" reduced to £5 was a bona fide £10 bottle.
You can play this game with anything, doesn't have to be wine, but it really has to be something that keeps for a while (so if they send a generic £5 bottle as a substitute I'll send it back and so need a bottle or two in reserve) and is subject to these 50% markdowns.
Welcome Brixtonrunner!
I'm amused that some of you think my mileage is scary. I'm still in 'easy' territory. Just wait till I get over 90 miles per week! I lack talent, I have to run lots to be any good.
Great to see Minni back in action and a super run from the recently benched MsE. Coupled with Speedy's 20 miler, it's safe to say that the ladeez are kicking ass at the moment.
Prize for "face of the week" undoubtedly goes to PMJ for his Mr Serious look; great report from Wokingham.
Welcome and congrats to Brix - without wishing to put too much pressure in you, I'd say that 3:15 should be a shoe-in as long as a. you've got the endurance sorted and b. you don't go off too fast. My conversions from half to mara aren't great but I managed 3:07 off the back off just under 1:27. If I were you I'd be looking very seriously at a sub 3:05 and GFA place.
Verdict on my Polish cooking experiment: pierogi - delicious, but rather fiddly; sausage soup - probably won't be repeated although the combination of the sausage and the cabbage meant that there WAS quite a bit of repeating in the following 24 hours!
Running update: 4 gentle miles on Sunday to take me up to just shy of 50 for the week; 9 miles commuting in total yesterday and a decent enough 9.5 miles at 7:23 pace this morning.
The oddest thing was that my phone went a bit haywire on Sunday and rather than logging the 3.5 miles for the 27 min run, it calculated it at 7.6 miles, giving me an average pace of just over 3:30 / mile. Have obviously sent it through to the Rio selection team for consideration.
So Tuesday 8am rolls by and one Jantastic week closes and another opens.
Consistently Consistent sub-3:15 team recorded 100% for week 5 so we are 5/12ths done which rounds to 41.7%. There are only 8 medium teams out of 221 still with a 100% record so the thinning has begun for earnest.
Note the Jantastic rules calculate the team score based on the highest 75% for the month. With a team of 15, we need 12 good scores but also these 12 people don't have to be the same 12 each month, so if you are benched for a while, it is still beneficial to come back for and you start to count again.
I'm not shocked by the miles Speedy does, you get used to it after a while, but never cease to be amazed by One Gear's conversion: 1:27 to 2:57 is double plus 3 minutes which is world class (in fact it is better as the world class guys and girls are double plus 3 but the 3 is a bugger portion so they slow down more).
Lorenzo, if they don't accept that as proof I can forge a note from my Mum saying you are a very fast boy.
My conversion last year was x2 - 5 (1:37 to 3:09) which makes me intergalactic class.
CC2 - ouf! What schedule is that?
MsE! You're back and you're fast! great.