Sub 3h15



  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Welcome to BrixtonR!  That's a nice chunk off your old HM PB.  Well done!  Yes, yes, go for sub-3:05.  And work on making sure you convert nicely to the full in the meantime.  Simple really!  Isn't it? Isn't it?!  image

    marrows 1:37 to 3:09 is really impressive.  It you listened to everyone round these parts, it shouldn't be possible... image  Which just goes to show we are an experiment of one and there are always those anomalies that give us hope we can achieve our dreams.  So maybe it's as important to hold onto those dreams and work towards them as it is to be realistic given our training feedback.  Brixton's 1:23 has been achieved a few months before the full mara and a lot can happen between now and then.

  • Thanks for all the advice and welcome messages everyone - really appreciate it and will take everything on board. Really going to concentrate on the endurance side of things over the next 10 weeks as I think the speed is there, I just need to convert it into a decent marathon. Think I just need a bit more self belief, and seeing everyone else's conversion rates make me 3.05 is definitely a realistic goal!

    PMJ - to answer you back specifically, my longest 5 runs will take me over 100 miles so that's the first box checked. I did have a fairly heavy week before Wokingham, but did give myself a nice 2 day mini-taper so no doubt on fresh legs you would have blasted past me at the end there! Agree about London being quite far away, I think after a few more long runs have been banked, I'll have a better idea about what I might be able to achieve.

    My conversion rate last year was shocking, 1.33 half to 3.29 mara. I think that tells me I need to work on my endurance!

  • Some great conversions among the fast ladies image

    BrixtonR- 3;05 is a good aim see what happens in training and re-assess  nearer the time.

    Marrows- nice shorts !

    13.5 miles .6 easy, 5 hard ( 7:00, 6:58, 7:01, 6:55, 6:44 ) then a few easy to get back to the car . Target was 6:55 m/mile for the 5 but for the first 3 I couldn't make it happen then I got going image


  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Leslie - my marathon times are my poorest efforts so far.  2011: 3:27 (1:30), 3:15 (1:31) and 2014: 3:13 (1:27). Actually, I just don't think I have quite got the hang of racing really because none of those times felt like they came from decent race efforts. But then I only started in 2011 with a year on the bench so I am still on the learning curve!  I do need to race more. I don't think I have even logged 10 races yet. 

    Edited to say: Nice miles there!  Do you do anything to warm up beforehand?  I usually take ages to warm up and only get started after 4 miles but have decided to foam roll beforehand and it does seem to make a huge difference.

  • I haven’t been near the forum for months but thought I’d drop in as I’m into week 2 of a P&D 12 week schedule for VLM. It’s good to see MsE on the same schedule as we can compare our progress.

    Great HM racing and report PMJ. I liked your photos too.

    Welcome aboard brixtonrunner. That’s a great HM result and I think with a few more months solid training you could be targeting sub 3. I ran 2:54 of a 1:22 HM, although this included some 100+ mileage weeks.

    It’s great to see all the usual suspects running good mileage.

    I’m sure a good few on this forum can remember my ‘walnut’ problem that occurred during a 100k race last summer! I’m happy to report that I finally had the operation to fix this issue at the start of last month. I went through hell on earth for a few weeks while recovering from the surgery but I’m now back to running properly again.

    My fitness level is way down after almost 3 weeks without any exercise but I did manage to complete 64 miles last week niggle free. I’m running the 105 mile P&D plan but will drop a few runs and take a few rest days. My mileage will peak in the mid 90’s and I will take another few weeks to reach the higher mileage. I’ve changed the days for many of the runs but will always make sure I run the key runs each week.

    I ran 10 miles this morning with 5 targeting HMP. I was happy to manage about 6:28 pace for the HM section which is only 13 seconds down on PB HM performance. I’ve pencilled in 6:40 pace for the marathon but will have to see how I perform over the next few months. It’s great to be running again!image

  • PMJ you used a technical term I am not familiar with - so exactly what is a "bugger portion". I am regularly accused of "not trying" on the shorter distances - not true!!!

    It may be a function of how old I was when I started running (49). Interestingly I have ever only done the London Marathon so the comparisons are pretty valid. But the conversion was similar even then even when I was doing pbs at all distances year after year.

    I was typically doing pbs at Bristol and Stroud in the Autumn and then London in the Spring. If I remember correctly these were.

    Bristol 2005       1:33                VLM 2006      3:12 (First Marathon)

    Bristol 2006       1:29                VLM 2007      3:07

    Bristol 2007       1:27                VLM 2008      3:00

    So based on this 6 mins is more typical I guess. VLM 2007 was the hottest one on record so I won't beat myself up about the 9 minutes

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    My stats look a lot less impressive- still capable of a 1:22 half and sub hour 10 miler but for the marathon sub 3 by a few seconds is my best and I don't expect to improve on that.

    You have lots of talent Speedy, the miles are just getting you to the peak and it seems to work- I remenber you storming past me at VLM last year...   


  • My 1:33 HM PB converts to 3:10 Mara PB so double plus 4 min.  But I am a bit of a one geared runner without much of a top end, unless I count strides or about the first 400m.

    Some great running going on as usual.

    I went the Biokinetist today - 100 Rand (6 pounds) for  a review and half an hour of massage.  At the moment everything is hurting more than it was, but pain is only temporary they say...

    The debit card got some good use today and I entered the Vaal Marathon on March 1st (R150 or 8 pounds) and the Om-die-Dam 50km on March 21st (a premier race so R250 or about 13 pounds). Bargain!

    I went for a run yesterday at midday - I thought it was 34C but later heard it was 37C. Mad-dogs and Englishmen.....

  • MSE- I have only started foam rolling the last week or 2 and it seems to be helping alright, I put 4 sets of around 15 sec strides in before the hard miles or I would never hit the paces for me anyway image

    Badbark - welcome back and all systems go again too , excellent stuff image

    One gear - great stats !

    Bike it- full race schedule for pennies image

  • Welcome brixtonR, great hm time likewise PMJ - mucho envy.

    i've been thinking of entering the inverness half next month but I just can't seem to raise much enthusiasm for racing at the moment.

    Otherwise pretty poor for me, sunday was severely compromised by the rugby on Saturday, managed a very slow 20.  I've now come down with a cold (flu really) so I' m feeling very sorry for myself.  Managed a slow 7 + 4 recovery today.

  • RFJRFJ ✭✭✭

    Welcome Brixton Runner

    Just had a quick skim back, was away last night in york and managed a little easy run round the racecourse

    no such joy today as full on and only got home a short while back, so an enforced rest day, which has actually come at a good time as my hamstring tendon is a tad tight and grumbling (pulled it away from the bone 3 years ago after a fall and has never been quite right and is a litteral pain in the butt)

    will see how it is tomorrow

    Take care

  • In reality, the half and full are very different events and a lot of this "conversion" is not real. I used to train and run fast most days for about an hour but that was it, so I could run a fast 10k and 10mile but going up from 10 miles to a half was a stretch (so I could get to 10 miles easily inside the hour but struggled to hold 6 m/m for the last 3 and certainly if I was a couple of minutes inside the hour I was aiming to hold that rather than build on it.

    The half and shorter are about hurting: you have to push yourself hard all the way and if you are lucky the start isn't too bad and the finish comes quickly.

    For the full, hurt is no good, you have to be able to suffer, so you can't risk pushing yourself into the hurt zone but you need to be able to hover just beneath it.

    I reckon some are born to hurt and some are born to suffer, and the sufferers are better marathoners and convert better because they can't hurt.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    suffer or hurt. uhmmm not sure image

    Welcome back Badbark. 3 weeks out followed by a 68 mile week on your way to 90 avg. You must be a born sufferer...

    Double shifting here, so added another 5 tonight.  

  • Oh God, I'd forgotten the walnut incident. I think life was better while it was forgottenimage

    Marrows, it's my own schedule. Based on personal experience of 9 previous marathons.

  • Suffer or hurt - interesting. When I say to people that I have hurt more in the odd 10k I have done than in any marathon, they look disbelievingly at me. Also, if you are around the sub 3 mark in London you see a lot of "carnage" in those last 3 miles. Runners who have pushed themselves into a state of semi-unconsciousness or worse.I  have never understood how you can push yourself to that point. My wife says I don't even look like I am trying - well I think I am trying pretty hard!!!

    Maybe because I only have one gear my legs won't go fast enough to get the rest of my body in trouble.

  • Speedy, do tell. Do you plan the whole thing out at the start or make it up as you go along?

    I'm not sure what to make of my personal experience of X previous marathons (I think 7 for me) because each one was run with a different version of myself.

  • Brixtonrunner - welcome to the thread. Well done on taking down PMJ - certainly sounds like you have the talent to go sub 3:15.
    Lorenzo - good to hear the come-back continues well.
    Leslie - nice turn of speed.
    Badbark - good to hear from you again. You'll soon be flying again.
    Bike It - bargains indeed!
    JF2 - get well soon.
    My half to 26.2 conversion is shocking - 1:26 to 3:30! If I can put a decent campaign and race together then I know there's room for a massive improvement.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Welcome to Brixtonrunner - you clearly have the requisite speed, just need to make sure you get that endurance built and the long runs done. Would have thought you'll breese through 3:15 if you manage to stay fit & healthy and do the work.

    Leslie - yeah, 13 is the longest for a while. I've done that for the last couple of weekends, with the intent of building up to a max of about 16 before April's HM.

    Nice shorts Marrows! Do you actually own those???

    7.5 easy for me on Monday, and short hills session yesterday to break up interview prep.

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Gul - you have much more in you. It's just a case the stars and moon coming into alignment for you.

    How are your niggles these days Abbers?

    Well seeing as Badbark is bonkers enough to think my progress can compare to his, I had better start posting a bit more.  Yesterday was a hilly 12 miles over the still muddy Surrey Hills at a nice sedate 9:20m/m.  Today followed with an 11 miler at 7:38m/m.  All engines seem to be firing nicely (for now). image

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    MsE - all good, thanks. But then I'm not playing cricket at the moment! Running doesn't seem to be the issue, quads, achilles/calfs are fine as long as that's all I do. It's bowling which causes the extra stresses and strains, last year especially so post-VLM. Still, no mara for me this spring, and plenty of strength/conditioning work on the offending areas will hopefully result in an injury free season when I'll be able to keep up my running too. Nice miles from you already this week image

  • No way, Abbers. I feel pretty self-conscious in anything but black bottoms.  The intergalactic shorts would draw too much attention to the astronomical dimensions of my arse.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭


     I'm sorry.  image   I've let the team down.  I forgot to log my Jantastic sessions last week.  I wouldn't care but I've downloaded Garmin Express and linked it to Strava which I was then going to link to Jantastic but I had problems with the first linking and thought I had done the second link but clearly hadn't.  image





  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    marrows wrote (see)

    No way, Abbers. I feel pretty self-conscious in anything but black bottoms.  The intergalactic shorts would draw too much attention to the astronomical dimensions of my arse.

    I have to say I didn't see anyone with an astronomically dimensioned bottom when I was marshalling at the Richmond Park marathon last year.  In fact, I only saw a tiny fast thing whizzing past to win it.

    Minni - just because you are a triathlete doesn't mean you can forget about the old crowd image

  • Speedy – being able to run lots without breaking down is a talent in itself.  You must have pretty good biomechanics as well as great mental strength

    Badbark – welcome back. Definitely scary mileage!

    Conversion only really stacks up if you compare a raced HM relatively late in a marathon training programme with the subsequent marathon.  x2 + 14 is the best I have managed.  Impressed with  marrows’ conversion . On those numbers he should enter Comrades as a sub 6 hrs might be on the cards!

    Lorenzo – impressed with the Polish cooking.  Me and Mrs GE have signed up to Hello Fresh recently.  You get the ingredients for 3 meals for 2 per week in just the right quantities including all herbs and spices etc.  Last night was a paella – very tasty!

    Hurter or sufferer – definitely a sufferer.  10k is my least favourite event.  It hurts for a long time.  5k hurts too but for a manageable period.

    marrows – on the subject of large @rses, I was on an easy run home last night at around 9m/m pace and was passed by an extraordinary example.  Possibly the largest @rse ever to have overtaken me.  Despite its huge size it wasn’t wobbling too much so was either quite toned or the lycra was doing a sterling job.  Kim Kardashian would have been proud.  Either way, it shouldn’t have been going past me, recovery run or not.

    Intervals at the track this morning. A good session of 6x1k with all 6 in under 4 mins.

  • GoldenEagle wrote (see)

    Impressed with  marrows’ conversion . On those numbers he should enter Comrades as a sub 6 hrs might be on the cards!

    I made the same mistake until I met her.


    5x600m on the goose shit track today. My fast segments were at 190 steps a minute and I did 2:09, 2:13, 2:12, 2:12, 2:10 so I reckon over 2000 steps in goose shit.

  • Oops!  Apologies, marrows. image 

    Thanks for pointing out, PMJ.  Nice goose shit session btw.

  • RFJRFJ ✭✭✭

    The joys of forum names and pictures....image

    Hamsting tendon seemed OK tonight once warmed up, so managed 8.25m with 4 x .88m loops 15 secs faster than MP

    I am a hurter I think, esp when at full tilt at the shorter distances

  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    I'm looking forward to getting in to some intervals again, so much easier than all this hard work of long runs and TMP! Nice goose shit though PMJ.

    Perhaps all this hard work will be worth it though given my best conversion is 2*HM + 27. I don't think that's very good, is it?

    Just back in from my midweek P&D MLR. 14.03 miles in 1:48:39. Exactly one week ago I ran 14.03 miles in 1:48:39. Twilight zone…...

  • Wool - That's a bit eerie!

    RFJ - Good sesh.

    PMJ - Haha nice consistent and even goose sh1t reps! Like your Tesco game too, sounds like a fun and worthwhile thing to do. We've only just got a Tesco here recently but it's more like a small convenience store. They have some decent offers on their reds though and I bagged a nice Chilean Malbec recently for £4!

    Marrows - Behave, I bet you would look great in those shorts. They're very cool btw.

    MsE - You're looking good even though I can't see ya!image Keep up the streak.

    Minni - That's one cute puppy!

    Abbers - Stay away from that cricket malarkey it's bad for you!image

    Lorenzo - Great cooking skills. Mind how you go though. Remember your A race is some way away yet.

    I had a good lunch run with my new running buddy today, did 4.5 miles off no warm up in 6:22mm average. Pretty even paced run, about 30 seconds quicker on the second half and felt it a bit in the last mile or so but felt pretty strong. That's my first real hard effort for a training run over that sort of distance in about 7 months or so and those -20 seconds or so per mile really count/hurt. I like that.

    Ah conversions - my half to mara is +29. Would like to get that down to about 6 and work from there. Looks like there may be a half here in May in prep for the Island games. I now have a reason to get training properly.

  • PMJ, nice cadence on the intervals (especially given the goosey conditions).

    Interested in the conversion discussion from 13.1 to 26.2. I have never raced a half but recently my marathon was 3:09:56. If I plug that into McMillan's calculator, it says I should have run a half of 1:30:15, a 10K of 40:29; and a 5K of 19:30. In the weeks leading up to the marathon I ran a 40:30 10K. I read this to mean my endurance was dialed in this time around. In the past, I usually missed my conversion by 5-10 minutes for the marathon based on 5K or 10K time.

    Saw an ortho surgeon yesterday. Xrays didn't show a stress fracture and foot generally looks good from a structural point of view. Thinks it's either a stress reaction and/or soft tissue stuff. Says no running until I can walk w/out pain for 2 weeks, and then start slowly again. And got cleared for elliptical/bike/pool. Not bad news and might see a return to running weeks sooner that I was predicting. Will see.

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