Sub 3h15

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  • sscssc ✭✭✭

    Last decent session tonight before my v short taper for Manchester starts, just short runs and recovery now. Really pleased with tonight, a planned 15 MLR with 10 @ MP 7.20- 7.30 came out as 15@ 7.30 exactly! First two miles were treat as a warm up around 8 min pace and all other miles felt great and were often faster than planned with heart rate comfortablereal other confidence booster after Sundays 22 miler.

    Now to put on my cotton wool suit!!!

  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭

    Sounds like you are in sub3:15 shape then ssc so I think you can be confident at Manchester.

    Welcome back MsE and GE.  Both sound like you have very pleasant trips.

    Poacher - the first time I did Comrades I did a 37mile training run.  I did that as a run walk on the same schedule I use for Comrades. The next I did an 8mile run followed 15 minutes later by a marathon, so 34 miles.  This time I have done a 50km/31mile event (can't call my participation in it a race really). Probably I would do one more run in the order of 50-55km before the big day.

    I'm not aware of any folding mountain bikes that can be used for proper off-roading Poacher.  There are a few, but of the less durable type as far as I've seen.  Depends on what car you have, but I've taken (non-folding) bikes with the wheels off inside the car.

    We picked up the keys to the property we are buying yesterday and went around when it is empty last night - it is amazingly huge as is typical hereimage.  A lot of work is needed is the downside.

    Bike commute started this morning.image

     

  • sscssc ✭✭✭

    Apologies for daft typos on previous post - old man using tech, never works!

    Thanks Bike It, two more weeks of training would be great but hey at least 3:15 seems a possibility.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Jools - nice club session.
    Birch - good session on tired legs.
    KR - nice fast finish run. I was over in your neck of the woods last week, I think, in Syston. Good to hear Martin is well.
    Leslie - sounds like the rest has done you some good.
    Bike It - did some swimming races with the family last night. All well until my daughters decided it was crawl there and backstroke back - nearly drowned! Enjoy the bike commute and the new house / mansion!
    SJ - As long as it's not swimming with bricksimage
    Poacher - hope that's not true. I know nothing about bikes in general let alone folding ones.
    MsE - welcome home. Well done on the 20 miler after a long haul flight.
    GE - running in the jungle!
    ssc - cracking MP run.
    Very pleased with this morning's intervals. 15 laps inc. 2 x 4 x 400m with 275m recoveries and 1 lap between sets; scores on the doors: 1:20, 1:20, 1:19, 1:19, 1:19, 1:18, 1:19, 1:18. The recoveries were longer than I normally do so that obviously helped.

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    And a lot of furniture to fill it up BI! Glad you are settling in image



    Great stuff ssc. A solid race performance beckons - it sounds in the bag as long as you remember to not get greedy early on (been there!).



    Amazing trip GE! Very exotic.



    Sounds like you need a new challenge to get you re motivated Poacher. Have you thought about having a crack at adventure racing?



    MsE, bug prevention (or rather minimisation) is quite simple and is all about the following factors

    1) contact with bugs

    - wash your hands regularly, don't touch your face / eyes / mouth / ears,

    - don't touch public surfaces such as hands rails / lift buttons / other people

    - avoid lifts / enclosed spaces with others

    - avoid people (my favourite)

    2) your immune system

    - get enough sleep

    - eat well

    - keep the stress down
  • Welcome back MsE - a great last 20 miler

    Good paced 15 miler ssc

    Very swift 400m reps there Gul - looking good. Syston is okay and part of one of long runs. If you are there again and have time check out Watermead County Park which is a very nice Park with loads of lakes. It's a pleasure to run round.

    Good tips there Slokey, I like the avoiding people one! I tend to open doors with my little finger. No running last night which was strange, actually had a some good family time for a change!

  • MsE wrote (see)
    I've decided that race pace will be whatever it comes out at on the 26th. Too many variables can affect pace so I'm going to just see what happens on the day.

    Come on MsE, that is a sure-fire route to failure or disappointment. Your 20 mile run yesterday was 2:27 (7:21 pace) and you ran Surrey half in 84 minutes. I did a fairly tough 20 mile run in 2:23  and Wokingham Half in mid 83 so you are probably in similar form to me and I ran 3:07 on a windy day as a solo run. You need to get a definite goal time in mind so you get a decent first half in: too fast and you blow up, too slow and you can't make it up in the second half. Your big question is if you go for a sub-3 or not and my hunch is that if you pace it well you can get sub-3 but it needs to be a definite plan and not a "run to the feel and cross fingers".

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    PhilipMJones wrote (see)
    MsE wrote (see)
    I've decided that race pace will be whatever it comes out at on the 26th. Too many variables can affect pace so I'm going to just see what happens on the day.

    Come on MsE, that is a sure-fire route to failure or disappointment. Your 20 mile run yesterday was 2:27 (7:21 pace) and you ran Surrey half in 84 minutes. I did a fairly tough 20 mile run in 2:23  and Wokingham Half in mid 83 so you are probably in similar form to me and I ran 3:07 on a windy day as a solo run. You need to get a definite goal time in mind so you get a decent first half in: too fast and you blow up, too slow and you can't make it up in the second half. Your big question is if you go for a sub-3 or not and my hunch is that if you pace it well you can get sub-3 but it needs to be a definite plan and not a "run to the feel and cross fingers".

    OK, OK.  Sub-3 it is then.  literatihas given me a nice strategy of starting out around 6:48m/m, follow the sub-3 pacer (who she tells me wears orange shorts) until halfway and then push on from there if I am feeling good.  In my mind I am thinking if I get to halfway in 1:28 then it's on for a sub-3 effort.  I know it is well within my capabilities, it is just if I think about it too much I get a bit anxious about the whole thing which is never a good thing for my running as I like to run relaxed.

    Yesterday's run felt really easy except when I did try a few MRP miles, they really varied from 6:44m/m to 6:55m/m, I think as I got too hot and didn't carry water with me. So I only did 5 and then that got me thinking that I should really see how the day is because if I fixate on a goal pace, then it doesn't account for the weather on the day.

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Gul - those are nice speedy intervals.  Great job!

    That's sound advice SJ.  Basically avoid everyone (including my face), don't touch anything in public and get loads of rest and decent nutrition in.  

    Just back from a fartlek with The Boss who had arranged a run with a few other runners he coaches.  I was heavy legged from yesterday's 20 miler but then it all eased off and I ran at the front from halfway.  My downhill running still needs work though.  However, my endurance is definitely much better these days which bodes well for the marathon.

    Edited to day:  sub-3:15 looks well within reach scc image

  • MsE wrote (see)
    OK, OK.  Sub-3 it is then.  literatihas given me a nice strategy of starting out around 6:48m/m, follow the sub-3 pacer (who she tells me wears orange shorts) until halfway and then push on from there if I am feeling good.  In my mind I am thinking if I get to halfway in 1:28 then it's on for a sub-3 effort.

    All good then. 1:28 to 1:28:30 at halfway is where you want to be for a sub-3 which is 6:45 so leave the strange orange shorted guy (is that PhilPub BTW?) slightly behind. If you can hold 6:45 on a bit more then you hit 20 in 2:15 and have a good window of opportunity to push on for a better time or sit back and relish in a relatively relaxed run in.

  • RFJRFJ ✭✭✭

    Certainly no where near sub 3 shape for a marathon, pace wise for a half yes, but not full.

    Been very busy with work, but still getting out there,

    Tues - 3 x 1k at 5k pace and 1 x 3k at threshold pace (6:45mm)

    Thurs - 5.25m at 7:40mm ave AM and then PM 7.25m (with 4.25m at MP)

    will try and read back through.

    Take care

  • Ok, it is PhilPub and here are a close up of his shorts from the Maidenhead 10

     

    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ekRDpch5gLs/VSbhuJ4lwMI/AAAAAAAABcM/aZ42OVKzlIY/s817/ScreenShot.png

     

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    MsE are you on red start GFA? We usually meet up there? I'll be doing 1:28:30 to 1:29 half way pace. Aiming for sub 3 but not convinced if I'll make it.

    Still training well this week, without pushing it too hard. 9 miles Tuesday, 6 miles (3 up hill) Wednesday, and another pacey 6 miler today. Planning a parkrun + 10k race double this weekend, then I might think about a taper.     

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    My eyes! My eyes!



    OO - I'm starting with the club runners in the championships start pen. I have no idea what that means (other than nice loos). Would I be able to find you from there? I think I have a different start time from the red / blue / green people. *vague*
  • Welcome back MsE and GE - sounds like you've both had a fantastic break.

    Hopefully I'll catch up with you on the Green start GE. I haven't got a specific target time or race plan in mind as I just want to enjoy it. I'd be happy with 3:10 so perhaps there's a mini-train in the making.

    Talking of which, it must be time for the annual list of runners and riders, so here's a start for ten:

    Champs Start
    MsE
    Jools

    Red Start
    OO52

    Green Start
    Golden Eagle
    Lorenzo: 26861, magenta Dorking and Mole Valley vest

    Blue Start

    9 up and down miles this morning - glorious weather for running. Rest day tomorrow as I'm heading up to the Granite City 

     

  • Loving all this talk about pacing. I think I've been in the same camp as you MsE and now have a game plan after reading back. I think you are right PMJ about not just turning up on the day and see how it goes. We've been training for this for 16 weeks now! I won't ask how you got that photo!

    Looks like a good week so far RFJ

    Good paced run tonight with first 2 miles 7.46, 7.32 then upped the pace a bit with 6.20, 6.18, 6.15, 6.20, 6.31, and then 1.5 miles home in 7.52 pace. I was supposed to be breaking the faster miles up with 0.5 HMP / 0.5 MP, but had no idea of actual pace and just went with it. New shoes are boding well!

  • I usually have a pace target I tell everybody and a different one I am working to.  So if anybody asks my target is 3:15 although I based my p and d schedule on 7:15 pace and I have 7:10 in mind.  Not that anybody is really that interested but I find it helps me as my confidence start to disappear over the last few weeks leading up to the race.

    VO2 max tonight, 8 miles on the treadmill with 3 x 1 mile at around 6:20 m/m

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Champs Start
    MsE: 232, (garish) green Guildford & Godalming vest
    Jools

    Red Start
    OO52

    Green Start
    Golden Eagle
    Lorenzo: 26861, magenta Dorking and Mole Valley vest

    Blue Start

    Nice paced run, KR.  Care to share your game plan with us? image

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    PhilipMJones wrote (see)
    MsE wrote (see)
    OK, OK.  Sub-3 it is then.  literatihas given me a nice strategy of starting out around 6:48m/m, follow the sub-3 pacer (who she tells me wears orange shorts) until halfway and then push on from there if I am feeling good.  In my mind I am thinking if I get to halfway in 1:28 then it's on for a sub-3 effort.

    All good then. 1:28 to 1:28:30 at halfway is where you want to be for a sub-3 which is 6:45 so leave the strange orange shorted guy (is that PhilPub BTW?) slightly behind. If you can hold 6:45 on a bit more then you hit 20 in 2:15 and have a good window of opportunity to push on for a better time or sit back and relish in a relatively relaxed run in.

    As a disclaimer, I should add that Phil is not starting on Blue, which is why you need to know about the shorts to meet up with him later. I ran miles 5-14ish with him last year and reached halfway in exactly 1:28:45.

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    ah, pacing - uncharacteristically, I have doubts re my VLM strategy . . . .

    as some may recall, I recorded a 1:29:32 half in early March, my quickest for 9 years - that year I got 1:29:31, and 3 weeks later ran 3:10:nn at Lochaber.

    however, although I've always been a "look at the evidence" type, I'm looking at VLM in two ways, and would welcome comments, please

    1) - I would advise anyone, and the old me would have known with absolute certainty, that the recent half would convert to a sub 3:15 marathon, no question (provided the relevant training done, of course)

    2) Conversely, I'd advise  anyone who had run 3:32 and 3:34 (as I did last year), and who announced s/he was aiming for 3:15 this time, and who is a VoGit, to "get real" . .

    So, the evidence ( 13 weeks with 11 x runs of 20 - 23 miles, 1 x 16.5, and the half mara) suggests yes, a 3:15 should be there (predictor tools suggest this also).
    However, my mind is struggling to accept this - in recent years, it appeared I fitted the Noakes model of ageing runner whose best days had gone, and was slowing not only in absolute terms, but in relative terms also. Now I've run my first 80% WAVA . . .

    One day I think "Yeah, let's set out at 3:15 pace & see what happens", the next it's "come on, don't be daft, you're 60, you're just not going to be 17/18 mins faster than 6 months ago"  . . . . . (and it will be 7 weeks between the half and VLM - "peak" may have passed)
     
    This was (is) going to be my final outing at the 26.2, to coincide with my reaching VoGit status, to attain the 26 completions (one for each mile), with a symmetrically pleasing 13 in London.
    So, do I opt for a pleasant trip around, or do I go for what this year's evidence says is possible?

     

     


     

     

     

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    KR - I was just there during work time, so no running, but I'll bear it in mind if there's ever an opportunity. Cracking run last night!
    MsE - sounds like a plan!
    RFJ - good sessions.
    OO - nicely ticking over.
    Lorenzo - nice hilly run. Getting a bit on the warm side here.
    JF2 - good dreadmill session, if there is such a thingimage
    Birch - I guess you'll always be wondering 'what if...' should you chose not to go for sub 3:15. Tough call though.
    Rest day for me as it was packing up time at the van today.

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Birch - others with more experience than me will be able to advise but what I will say is that I do think it is possible to let age seem more relevant than it is.  My time in California showed me that age is only something that holds you back if you let it. I think the mental aspect of running plays a huge role and there is no need to doubt your abilities now.  I saw athletes in better shape than 20-30 year olds, who were in their 60s and 70s and racing weekly. They managed this by paying attention to how they recovered.  You are in great shape and have proven it with your 80% WAVA!  And who says it can't be a pleasant trip around AND you go for what your training suggests you are capable of? Go get 'em. image

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Go for it Birch. Don't let a general model in a book dictate to you what your very individual body can do...



    Plus, you have enough experience to realise if it is going pear shaped early enough and be able to rectify your race plan on the fly.
  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    3 posts at exactly the same time! Record?
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Birch - I think that even if it turns out you can't quite manage 3:15, you are certainly capable of running the first half in 1:37 without totally destroying yourself, even if you do end up fading a bit. It's not like you'd be tearing out at some sort of suicidal pace trying to 'bank' time for the sub 3:15. I say go for it, planning for even splits, but being aware that, say, 3:20 is also a great time.

    Also, PMJ, I really wish you hadn't put a close-up shot of PhilPub's crotch area right at the top of the page. image

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Birch- you go for it no slacking !image

    Mse- sounds like you had a sub 3 plan all along image

    KR-great pace.

    JF2- nice dreadmilling !

    Despite being quite tired on wednesday last night was time for a tempo so I gave it plenty in a long run and the result was 19.5mile @ 7:19 average paceimage  with 17 tempo miles @ 7:10m/mile. It was warm too 18c so surprised myself and just as I finished I passed the ice-cream van so went back for a double cone flake with sprinkles and sauce, ice-cream never tasty so good !!!!!!!! Only really struggled with the last tempo mile where I couldn't quite hold the pace anymore image and I only set out to do 8-10 tempo miles but it was  great day and things went well image

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    LesH - You definitely have a different view on what a 'tempo' run is to me. I regard tempo pace to be slightly faster than half marathon pace around lactate threshold. A tempo run to me would be something like 6-10 miles with about 3-5 at HMP. This link is good to workout your tempo pace and also gives a good definition - http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/rws-training-pace-calculator/1676.html

     

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Some great running going on - nearly there! Pacing talk makes me chuckle, all you folk aiming at sub-3, looking to go through 13.1 in a time I'd be absolutely thrilled with as a PB in a flat out HM. More power to you!

    That's a heck of a run Leslie - don't leave it all in training.

    Birch, if this really is you last mara, and the indicators are good that you have the form and fitness, then don't retire wondering! Lit's strategy seems sound.

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Badbark-I've put my last "race" Omagh half in the calculator(admittedly I wasn't anywhere near 100%) and its giving me 7:08m/mile for tempo pace image We will just call it a p&d style mara paced run then image

    Abbers- you time will come soon enough image

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Leslie - I don't think tempo run necessarily means LT. I would say it could be anything from 10k pace to MP. And in any case it isn't possible to do a 17 mile LT run - unless you can do 3:30 m/m for an hourimage ! It was a cracking run by you whatever you call it though - well done.

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