Sub 3h15



  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Frazer - great running image

    ssc- nic 3:15 image

    VTR- comeback still going strong 

    KR- sub 3 will be your soon enough ,you are going the right direction , don't sweat it image

    Gul- cracking paces !!!!!!!!image

    6 easy today again still struggling getting of nights, should be good for a bit more tomorra ! ..



  • Another great session there Gul - you seem to like those 3 x 2mile reps!

    That was a big jump up in mileage Badbark with good results. What was the slow running m/m pace you did on those runs? I would imagine doubles would be the way to go to get all that in? I know Race Jase does 3/4 days of doubles a week to get his mileage in reading his blog.

    MsE, think you must be confusing me with someone else, as I didn't do any running the day before let alone a Parkrun? That would be crazyimage

    Legs feel a bit battered this morning and it's a struggle waling down the stairs. WIll go for a walk tonight to loosen them up a bit.

    Thanks Death Punch - I've been there before a few times, so I know the warning signs

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    "Thanks Death Punch" - not a phrase I ever expected to see written down image love it.

    My legs are toast today too KR. Very uncomfortable night and struggled to get on (let alone off) the toilet earlier. How embarrassing.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Some fantastic times achieved over the weekend. well done to all the racers.
    ssc - That's a really close call but you hit 3.15, great running. Will defo dip under the number next time.

    Great running, KR. In Paris 2013 I made the decision to stop and stretch failing calf muscles at 16 miles in a bid to save my race. Ended up with a PB that day. Good race management. Like you I'm interested to hear how the extra miles/sessions will help get the PB lower.

    Interesting comments from my mate's coach at his athletics club. The coach was amazed we achieved 3.15 off just 4 runs and one gym session p/w (I also do a spinning class to x-train). He reckons with 6 runs and 2 gym sessions, we could aim for sub-3 in London next year. He's going to put a plan together for us later in the year.

    It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. Sub-3 seems far too scary for me but then again, hitting a GFA was also unachievable once upon a time.

    5 steady miles today (7.07 pace). It's over a week now and I can still feel Brighton in my thighs. the right quad is actually injured, so I'll rest a bit more and ease back into the running later in the week. Injury approach seems far more casual when not in campaign! image


  • KR, is there any chance your calves spasm due to insufficient electrolytes? Did you take any electrolytes during the race? I ask because a few marathons ago, my calves started to spasm frequently over the final miles of the race (but didn't cramp). Then next race same thing but I went down in that one and following blood work found out I was hypokalemic (so not enough potassium). I read about this and turns you w/hypokalemia, you can get muscle spasms, but they won't actually cramp. For my last race, I took endurolytes and not a single muscle twitch. In your case, the spasms started pretty early so maybe not the same thing. But perhaps adding in electrolyte management could be a solution?

    Badbark, I too am interested to hear how you fit in the extra miles as I feel like I'm in a similar place.

    GD, take care of that leg and agree much easier to throttle back when nothing looms on the horizon.

    Gul, nice work on the short stuff. predict you easily break 40.

    Leslie, speaking of high mileage, how are you holding up these days? You've really been adding mileage this year...have you noticed a difference in fitness/pace?

    Wind and rain all week here. Good time for a cut back week.

  • SSC, you're in of course! Well run and sounds like you gave it everything. Very satisfying result. Can't do more than that.

    SJ, As someone who never cross trains but seems to cap out about 60 mpw, am watching what you do and thinking I should consider xtraining as I train for my next marathon. I only run 5 days per week cause feel I'll get hurt on more. But could bike or do something else on the 6th (or even 7th day). Might be tough to find the time but wheels are (metaphorically) spinning...

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    VTR-Was putting a good few 70+ weeks(above 60m/week since mid nov)  and was feeling stronger but then moving some runs around for a half mara pushed me a bit too hard and some minor injuries appeared one after the other image 

    I am finding high mileage on its own I can handle but adding in ever tougher intervals sessions,plus very long runs is pushing me a little too hard and things are starting to fall off image so i'm having to reign it in a little as I've another half mara next week .I think my endurance has come on a lot with the miles and my interval paces have just recently started to get back to where they should be but the miles made them slower for quite a while (its taken at least 9 months to go sub 6 min/ mile again !) I haven't ran a single pb in 13 months though image

    I ran huge mileage 2 years ago but it was very tough and took virtually all my time( peaked at 100/week(only 1 week, with a good few mid 90's) and it definitely works if you can keep the injuries down.

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    VTr, since the marathon is an aerobic event it makes sense that the bigger your aerobic engine, the better the platform you'll have for a strong race.

    You already run decent volume so maybe weaving in a long steady ride on a Saturday would give you a bit of a boost - just introduce it steadily so that it adds to your long run on a Sunday without compromising your long run performance too much.

    At the peak of an IM campaign I'd be biking for 5.5 hrs or so on a Saturday and then running for 2-2.5hrs on a Sunday.
  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    SJ, KR, JF - excellent runs at Manc. Spitting distance of sub 3 and PBs all round.  Huge congrats for hanging on in. Fraser - 3.02 is a lot more than chugging given the flu problem.  SSC - very nice one too. All these times are hard earned.

    KR - age 46 is mere whippersnapper, I would have said at 46 that PBs were not on the cards but it's not the case, there are a fair few on here who have gone faster at close to or beyond the dreaded 50.  You can do this. Dare I suggest "what if the opposite were true?" Or just a box of hand grenades under the training? image

    Gul's hard efforts are noted too - looking very good.

    I have decided to turn up and try to get round VLM on Sunday even though the longest run of the year has been a Parkrun. Still a vague hope of finishing Comrades but TBH it's looking very pear shaped right now. I'll be the one limping into Chandos several hours after everyone else.  In case anyone's queueing at the bar, mine's a Pale Ale.

    Lorenzo - looking forward to hearing about your Comrades preparation
    Minni - where are you going to be?



  • Sorry for the weird double post above (wasn't stalking you SJ!). Thanks for the xtraining info. Based on what I'm hearing from you as well as Leslie, adding more volume via nonpounding xtraining may be the way to go. Leslie, I think I would respond as you have...lots of miles are just hard to absorb and maintain good quality workouts mixed in. I typically am lucky to get 5-6 hr of sleep per night so think my mileage is maxed for now. For me, I think sleep could be key to everything so somehow need to find a way to get more of it. Maybe then I could go north of 70 per week. May try the Sat xtraining session in the meantime though.

    Old classmate of mine ran strongly at Boston today: 3:06 into the wind and rain at dead even splits.

  • Feeling ok today, even after my 6 hour drive back to the frozen north.  We'll done frazer and ssc great times.

    My race was surprisingly uneventful.  I arrived quite close to the start and ended up starting a lot further back than I wanted but just took it easy and ran the first mile at 7:30 pace.  I speeded up but got caught up in the 3:15 pace group and it took me almost two miles to get clear.  After that I just slowly got to and passed my target pace of 7:10 and felt really good when I went through half way in 1:33.  I held it steady until 20 miles and then pushed on to the finish.  1:31:08 second half and 43:14 last 10k was the most pleasing things.  P & D schedule certainly works and for once I had my head in the right place, something I haven't managed for a few years.

     Definitely no autumn marathon for me, not sure my marriage would survive it.  So I've got a year to plan and train for a sub 3hr attempt, not sure if it's on as I will be almost 54 but I've got to try.  So 6 months to lose a bit of weight and get in some shorter races to try and increase my basic pace and do all the things I don't usually have the time to do.

  • sscssc ✭✭✭

    Here is my race report from Manchester:

    I had 4-5 weeks good P&D, then 4 weeks of almost no running but cross training due to injury and then a good 5 weeks return. Got to the start line feeling fitter than my previous 3:15 attempt at Brighton where I crashed at 20m and finished at 12 minute pace for a 3:27 finish time, but the training missed made me v unsure if I cold hit near a 3:15 time.  If I was offered a 3:17 on the start line I would have jumped at it.

    GDawgs advice workedbrilliantly for me, I made sure I started well behind the 3:15 pacer.  This avoided the rugby scrum around them and also meant I could run my own pace and if they took off I would be able to tell myself it was because they were too fast!  It left me feeling calm from the off.  An opening 7:34 mile and similar straight after interestingkeep that the pacer in view and after some steady sub 7:30 pacing allowed my mate and I to close the gap.  As GD said, this is great knowing that you have time in the bank.

    I did have a really rough patch at 7 miles where I felt heavy, tired and wondering if this pace was suitable.  I held onto a sub 7:30 pace and again having a pacer just ahead was a confidence booster that I wasn't slowing.  My mate had missed loads of training and at 14 miles announced he was easing off and wished me luck.  Straight away I had a tough couple of miles where the dreaded wall at 20m was in the back of my mind.  Somewhere from 18 onwards it felt easier with the miles suddenly ticking off and into the 20's was great

  • sscssc ✭✭✭


    I knew that 8min pace would bring me at sub 3:20 which was really good for confidence.  This is where P&D works, the stamina allows a continued 7:30 or quicker pace into the home stretch.  Mile 24 started to hurt but 2 left gets you through it. 25 was really tough so i took a 30 sec stop at mile 26 water station. I needed another stop with just half a mile left as I was really lightheaded and feeling faint but no more than 20 secs before a final push for the awesome finish chute.  I thought 3;16 was on the clock and was delighted.  Even more so at the official 3:15:56. Erdinger had non alcoholic beer for all finishers which after a marathon tasted like nectar! A brilliant touch.

    Many thanks GDawg for a strategy I hadn't considered. Future races will follow P&D and hopefully miss the injury section through being a bit more sensible when muscles are tight.  Good luck all London runners!

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    ssc - That's a time to be very proud of off such an interrupted campaign! Well done.

    Gul - The speed is back! Excellent run there with those 2 mile reps.

    KR - I know you wanted sub 3 but you have made serious inroads towards that after your Manc marathon. KR/TR team effort for your next one might just be the ticket.image

    Je$u$, I'm not evening running VLM next week but I can't wait. Any chance we can get a schedule of numbers together for our forum racers please?

    4 recovery miles for me tonight. Legs felt y'day's effort.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Poacher - I'll be around 22 miles, probably just before the marker, and I can see over to 13 from there too. Don't worry we'll not miss you! Anything I can provide?
  • Brilliant stuff from all the Manc crew. 

    KR - as others have said, you're well on you're way to a sub-3. Have you got an autumn marathon planned?

    Cracking performances from ssc and JF2 as well as Frazer and the previously congratulated SJ.

    Minni - I'll try and remember to keep my eyes open for you. Presume that you'll be in Chandos afterwards.

    Apart from Poacher who else'll be there? OO

    For those who haven't been there before, it's cross Trafalgar Square and head up to the right of the National Gallery, then take the road opposite the National Portrait Gallery (William IV St) and you'll see it.

    GM - I'm 26861

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Great report ssc and an excellent, well managed performance. To knock that time out with such a gap in training is very impressive. Glad the strategy worked as well for you as it did for me. It seems to take the pressure off while keeping you focussed on the prize.

    Good gym strength and core session last night. Spent ages on the foam roller which seems to have really helped my sore quad this morning. No pain going up or down stairs. Will give it another week when I'll get a track session in and then make my parkrun debut and a guaranteed 5k PB.image


  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    I imagine there are a few aching muscles today - hope the recovery goes well guys.
    3 slow miles for me today.

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    List time!

    Lorenzo- 26861
    Jools - 225

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    knight rider wrote (see)


    That was a big jump up in mileage Badbark with good results. What was the slow running m/m pace you did on those runs? I would imagine doubles would be the way to go to get all that in? I know Race Jase does 3/4 days of doubles a week to get his mileage in reading his blog.


    Something I discovered when I began running high mileage is how much my easy runs slowed down. When I was running 50 to 60 miles a week my easy pace would be about 7:40 to 8:00 m/m pace. However when running 90+ I’m always a bit fatigued and my pace on easy runs would start over 9 m/m and maybe finish at 8:15. The pace is not important as I run to feel and I only look at my Garmin later.

    I get the extra miles in by running to and from work at least three days a week. I park my car about 5 miles away from work and run anywhere from 5 to 14 in the morning and 5 miles back to my car later.

    If doing higher mileage I do believe you need to do a few extra things to help prevent injury. I do a weekly weight session including 1 leg squats with a dumb bell, deadlifts, bent over rows, bench press and shoulder press. I also do a twice weekly ab session and 10 x 10 second hill sprints every week. I believe all this helps my general strength, core and stabilizer muscles.

    I try to run as much as possible on softer ground especially the interval sessions which I do around grass playing fields.

    I’ve never missed a planned run due to injury in 6 years of running so I must be doing something right!

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    VTR-rest is critical at bigger mileage, 5-6hr sleep a night, no way I could cope on that for more than a few weeks ,I always try after a set of shifts to get one big power sleep 10 hrs minimum to charge up the batteries ...had one last night 10 hrs image

    I moved my intervals to a gravel track after the industrial estate I was using started getting very busy with traffic even in the evenings ,I find it easier to recover from than tarmac but it quite hard on hips and makes my hamstring twinge a bit with all the turns so I swap direction a few times a session and then there are the dogs to hurdle at times image

    22 miles today in almost exactly 3 hrs , took my first gels of the campaign at 16 and 20 miles more to try them really ,still feeling sundays monster rep session and it wasn't pretty towards the end but I wasn't going home till it was in the bag image Will take it easy now till my half mara on sunday if i've anything left for it image


  • SlokeyJoe wrote (see)
    "Thanks Death Punch" - not a phrase I ever expected to see written down image love it.

    Yes, made me laugh too after I read it back!

    G-Dawg - Would be interesting to see what plan your mate's coach comes up with too

    VTrunner - I had a 500ml bottle of sports drink the day before and a neara full one on the drive up to Manchester in the morning, so I think I was okay? I've had the twitches before and they have led to bad cramps in the race later and stopping to stretch didn't help ease it as the rest of the legs started ceasing too. So I knew from experience what was potentially on the cards.

    Interesting pnts about he higher mileage Leslie

    Good luck for London Poacher if you give it a go - you might surprise yourself! Think age can be a mental thing too as I don't feel my age (and don't act it too!).

    Sounds like you had a great race plan and race too JF2.

    Good report ssc and glad you got a great time too. Sounds like you mentally toughed it too.

    Still a few aching leg muscles Gul, but a bit better than yesterday. Workmates are laughing at me going down the stairs to the toilet.

    Been looking at an Autumn marathon (but need to discuss with Mrs KR) and Chester or Mablethorpe look like options. Anyone done Mablethorpe?

    Thanks for posting that info up Badbark. I thought the pace of the longer runs would be a lot slower. Not surprising you include the weights too, like a few other have mentioned. I think this could be something I need to take up. Looks like you have found the right balance.

    Good 22 miler Leslie, can;t remember the last time I had a 10+ hour sleep!

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Kr-wait till at least you can walk right before signing for another mara image As for long sleeps don't forget I do 4 x12 hr shifts and often do doubles on those days too so not much sleep time so I need to charge up a bit more on my days off than 9 to 5'ers image 

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Good summary BB

    Great reports gents.

    Mine's a bit dull in comparison:

    I was feeling pretty good and "un-injured" 3 or 4 weeks ago so decided to enter the race. I've worked out that I averaged 25.6miles per week from January up to the race but knew I was fairly fit since I've just finished the 20th week of my 30week (yes, 30) IM programme. I'd had a poor couple of weeks in February due to flu so am a bit down on overall volume on where I'd like but doing ok. So not peaking but healthy. A couple of sharpener interval sessions and then some MP stuff in the final week got me to the start line.

    Didn't know what to expect from the race really and was in 2 minds about whether to go with the 3:15 pace group and treat it as a training run with nabbing a GFA or whether to have a crack at sub-3. I don't think I really decided until I did a couple of sprints along a side road just near the pen and everything felt good.

    Wedged myself into the pen - looked around for threadsters but it was too congested to move around. Off we go and I tucked in behind the 3hr pacer.
  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    And that was it for ages.

    Didn't have any issues (other than losing one of my 4 gels in the first mile) but I just spaced the others out a bit more to compensate.

    Stayed with the pace group and felt OK - passed half way in 1:29:xx and got to 16 miles where I half expected to start feeling it a bit but no, smooth and steady. Got to 20 and still felt good - could it be on? Enjoyed some visualisations of crossing the line with my long term ambition finally nailed. Started to work a bit harder in mile 22 and lost concentration a bit at an aid station and ended up about 20s behind the pack but not too worried. "Get beyond 23 then dig deep" was my mantra. I was then isolated between 2 groups and was having to work hard into what felt like a reasonable head wind and up an incline. In reality I think it was a gentle breeze and fairly flat - I was just a bit knackered. Carried on like this with the work load going up exponentially but still slipping seconds until I got to the 24 mile point when it was clearly out of reach. I was now behind pace and slipping more with every stride.

    MsE asked about my mental state and I think she may have a point that I could have dug deeper at the end but I'm sure by then it was out of reach no matter what I did. A quick reset of expectations and thought about sub 3:05 as a great staging post and was already planning an assault on Frankfurt by the time the next mile was done. Painful jog for the last mile and crossed the line with little fanfare.

    9 minute PB and a great return on investment AND better than I expected but to be honest, anything other than a 2:5x now is just for fun rather than something I'm going to really celebrate. I'm now in year 6 of my 5 year (injury dotted) plan to break 3 hours and when I do it (25/10/15) I am going to go mental!
  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Oh, 3:03:54 was the time in the end after getting my number issue sorted with the timing people. image
  • SJ - I probably wasn't that far behind you 3:04:08 was my official time, although I started quite far back in the pen.

    Have you done Frankfurt before?  I was there last year, Frankfurt was great even if the race was a bit of a disaster.

    Hope the London tapers are going ok, I'm looking forward to watching you all on the television on Sunday.

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    "Thanks Death Punch" - not a phrase I ever expected to see written down image love it.

    My legs are toast today too KR. Very uncomfortable night and struggled to get on (let alone off) the toilet earlier. How embarrassing.
  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    2double posts!
  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    We must have been JF2. If I ever do London im going to get "Slokey" written on the back of my vest.

    Never done Frankfurt. Really enjoyed Berlin though and believe it is fast and the timing is very good. How would you rate it?
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