Sub 3h15



  • Well done Poach, good start indeed.

    I was meaning to ask you a question BOTF. I'm not sure if you've mentioned this before but I was wondering how the raced HM will affect your 20 mile race the week after. You may do few miles a week but you'll certainly be hammering your legs!

  • Sounds like you flew with Iberia, Scooby?
  • For all you P&D enthusiasts: 

    "Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow
    Creeps in this petty pace from day to day."

    Speedy - nice pacing.

    Scooby - what a nightmare! Hope it turns up all intact soon. Glad you enjoyed the decadence of EuroDisney.

    OGL - definitely not running VLM 2011, or any other spring marathon, but tentatively targetting the autumn. Just building up endurance at the moment, then going to reduce the mileage slightly to bring in some more speed in time for my local 10k at the start of May.

    Just a nice and slow 4m recovery run for me this morning.

  • Good afternoon ladies and gents!

    I didn't even know this was here, which is shocking as I've been running 3:15 marathons for far longer than I'd like (well, okay three of them in succession). Like most of you, I'm aiming to run a bit faster next time. Why is that? What's it all about?

    Potted history: RW plan for a sub 3:30, RW plan for a sub 3:15 at Antwerp. A year off then injury immediately after starting P&D led to using the FIRST plan (I think someone asked about that earlier - happy to provide info) for a hoped for 3:05 at Stratford this spring, but faded badly at 20 and ended up with a one minute PB instead - 3:11 image Then a vague higher-volume cross-training regime led to another tiny PB at Brussels, but it was a much more evenly paced and happy experience, and yes, even the final 6 miles were actually fun!

    Anyway, hope to be able to chip in from time to time, and to pick up tips or provide cautionary tales where necessary. Currently awaiting my next long run to see if a sore glute is going to mean I return to the FIRST schedules again for the spring, or if I can pick up the mileage instead. I do not enjoy cross-training over the winter!

  • 07.11.10 - SteveC1975 - Regents Park 10K - Around 40 Mins - 40:14 - job done
    21.11.10 - AfE - Abbey Dash 10k - sub-39 as a marker/indicator - 38:22 - job done
    21.11.10 - BOTF - Brighton 10k - under 40:30 - 40:02 - job done
    05.12.10 - GE - Regents Park 10k - sub 38:30 - ?? - job ??
    05.12.10 - SteveC1975 - Regents Park 10K - Sub 40 Mins - ?? - job ??
    23.01.11- Barry B Gloucester Marathon - Sub 3:15
    23.01.11 - AfE - Brass Monkey Half - sub-1:25
    23.01.11-  efc-col Four Villages Half Marathon-sub 1.25
    05.02.11 - Lorenzo - Thames Trot 50 - Sub 8 hours
    13.02.11 - Matchstick Man - Wokingham HM - 1h23m
    13.02.11 - SBD - Wokingham HM - 1:24
    13.02.11 - BOTF - Wokingham HM - 1:25, but seeing the two entries above...?
    20.02.11 - BOTF - Bramley 20 - sub 2:25
    06.03.11 - Scooby - Marathon Catalunya - 3:09:59
    06.03.11 - MsE - Bath HM - Sub 1.30
    06.03.11 - Joolska - Bath HM - tbc...
    13.03.11 - Knight RIder - Retford Half Marathon - 1:26.xx
    13.03.11 - SBD - MIlton Keynes - 1:24
    19.03.11 - Badbark - Larne Half Marathon - Sub 1:30
    19.03.11 - Speedy - Stafford HM  - 1.31.59
    20.03.11 - FINgers - Reading Half Marathon - Sub 1:26
    20.03.11 - Ormeski - Reading Half Marathon - Sub 1:25
    20:03.11 - BOTF - Reading HM - 1:25
    20.03.11 - SteveC1975 - Brentwood Half Marathon - Sub 1:28
    27.03.11 - Keir - Paddock Wood HM - Sub 1:25
    10.04.11 - FW - Chris Hoy HM Edinburgh - Sub 1:20
    10.04.11 - FINgers - Brighton Marathon - 3:09:59
    10.04.11 - Knight Rider - Brighton Marathon - Sub 3.15
    10.04.11 - B&B vs MM in the Regency 10k Smackdown! - Sub39.
    17.04.11 - Race Jase - VLM - not sure on target just yet, but hopefully I'll be in PB (sub2:39) shape.
    17.04.11 - SBD - VLM  - 2:49
    17:04.11 - Ant - VLM - 2:54:59
    17.04.11 - Joolska - VLM - 2.59.59
    17:04:11 - AfE - VLM - 2:59:59
    17.04.11 - Lorenzo - VLM - sub 3:10
    17:04:11 - BOTF - VLM - 3:10 ish
    17.04.11 - kittenkat - VLM 3.10
    17.04.11 - Jane326 - VLM 3.10
    17.40.11-  efc-col VLM-sub 3.10
    17:04:11 - MsE - - VLM  - 3.14.59
    17.04.11 - Speedy - VLM  - 3.14.59
    17.04.11 - SteveC1975 - VLM  - 3.14.59
    17.04.11 - Ormeski - VLM  - sub 3.15
    17.04.11 - Pipes VLM sub-3:15
    18.04.11 - OsloNeil Boston sub-3:10
    01.05.11 - Gul Darr - GEAR 10k - sub 42
    02:05:11 - Badbark - Belfast City Marathon -Sub 3:10
    08.05.11 - Keir - Essex & Halstead Marathon - Sub 3.15
    22.05.11 - B&B - Edinburgh Marathon - 3:09:59
    22.05.11 - Jane326 - Edinburgh Marathon 3.10
    18.06.11 - Lorenzo - Picnic - sub 4:45
    02.10.11 - Jane326 - Loch Ness Marathon 3.10

    OsloNeil now added to list - anymore?

  • Lorenzo - you nmaking me salvate with talk on Roast Chicken dinners

    A.C. -I think running on ice is good for a short while as it makes you appreciate boring tarmac when it melts.

    Luna man - welcome to the thread. Have you got an “A” race lined up for next year to aim for. With your sub 3.15 credatials I'm sure you'll have some good input to throw at us. We do talk about running sometimes too!

    jane326 wrote (see)
    KR - hear hear! Your a better man that me if you can drag youself out on a Sunday night at 8pm. Impressive stuff!
    I know you are a woman Jane as I met you last week at Birmingham! Rest for me today too Jane as my wife has a night school on a monday night, which should give me time to work on that 16 week plan!
  • Welcome to LunaMan and thanks for the potted history. What do you think has worked well for you in the past and what do you think you need to change to go quicker? I too was aiming at 3h05 this spring just gone at London but only got as far as 3h12.
    Be interested to hear your thoughts and SteveC would love to hear about your success on the FIRST schedule I'm sure
  • Still reading, only a few hundred left to go.

    Voted for KR

    Ant AirFrance was the airline of choice, not being racist but.... customer service was not the best.

    Very short version of first day..
    Left Liverpool 7am, arrived Manchester airport 1230
    Left Manchester 1800hrs, arrived hotel EuroDisney 0030hrs. All in a fun day

    It did get better, but tiredness was a major factor.

  • Nightmare stuff Scooby, 7.5hrs for Liverpool to Manc , you could have run it quicker. The only slower way to do it would be to swim it along the Ship Canal (it takes 16hrs 39min apparently) - a great feat of endurance this.

  • Thanks for the welcomes! Well I'm in VLM with a V40 GFA  - blimey that's a mouthful. I was hoping that would be a sub 3 attempt, but this glute thing has put paid to the extra padding of winter 20 milers I was planning, so I dunno yet. I'd definitely be cross with slower than 3:05 though. 

    What worked in the past? In the spring I had speed from the Furman schedules but didn't do anywhere near enough cross-training. In the autumn I'd bagged miles of cycling and think the extra endurance showed as I didn't fade at all, but then I didn't have the speed, grrr. In an ideal world I'd try out the P&D schedules, with more MP miles and 1 or 2 cross training days in place of easy runs.
    Or . . . go all-out Furman / FIRSTing (that just sounds so wrong), but I think that's better suited to summer training. I can't swim and only like the outdoor bike. Oh dear I'm all a dither!

    The other thing that worked in the autumn was returning to running a 23-24 miler at slow pace - time on feet kind of thing. That was missing in the faster spring running, and I'm sure it helps.

    It feels like there's still a lot to learn - Brussels was my 7th marathon and I overfuelled, with interesting results image

  • Hi Scooby - make sure you get some airline compensation for the lack of case
    the last time BA lost my ski kit over xmas i went shopping for a grands worth of north face new kit and they picked up the tab image

    Hi luna man ... i am i being naive asking what hapens when you overfuel?
  • Well Jane. I'm guessing it forced its way out of one end or the other!
  • oh yes, let's just say the spectators on that particular tram to Tervuren saw more of me than I, or they, would have liked.
  • oh right - yes - with you now image
  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Was this you Lunarman?

  • luna man wrote (see)

    The other thing that worked in the autumn was returning to running a 23-24 miler at slow pace - time on feet kind of thing. That was missing in the faster spring running, and I'm sure it helps.

    Care to expand? What pace is slow for you and how long would these runs take you? Do you take on board fuel during these runs or not?

  • What's all this with you lot being so knowledgeable on your Bard quotes. I might be able to contribute if we were doing Peter and Jane (do they still exist or are they too horribly 1950s middle class now ??) or something a bit more basic. First prize (as ever) to Band B

    Why was that chap trying to eat oxtail soup while running Keir ? No wonder everyone's staring at him. A hot beverage in those conditions is evidence of insanity

    I'll ask Mickey and Donald to come and visit you in your dreams then Poacher. Clearly you were enchanted by their charms !

  • Damn those pesky race photographers, popping up just when you don't need them! No, thank goodness, Brussels is full of woods and leaves, it's just that I didn't spot the tramline 2 metres away!

    MM -  the FIRST schedules have you running your long runs at faster paces than most of us might otherwise do them for a 3:15, culminating in a 20 miler three weeks out at MP + 15s, which is hard. So none of them have you out training for the length of time you predict to run the marathon in. Maybe it's psychological, but being on my feet for 3 hours 10 during a slower 24 miler in autumn training just seemed reassuring. It's hard to know what truly 'works' of course, as there are so many other factors.

    Pre-FIRST, and again now, LSR pace would be 8:20 - 8:40 mm, depending on terrain. Fuelling wise I never eat before the LSR, usually running early morning, but take a couple of gels, jelly babies, or oat bars if I'm going slowly on a trail route. In Brussels I don't think I took on board any fuel during the race, I was just a little bit nervous after the haf way pit stop!

  • RS78RS78 ✭✭✭

    Any of you kind ladies or gentleman run in or have run in the Mizuno Wave Precision 11?

  • Keir - by the look on that guys face, you know it smells baaaad too! image
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    You have to admire the comitment to keep going or perhaps he was just desperately trying to get away from all those people pointing at him.  Definately encourages you to hit the immodium before the next marathonimage

    My biggest fear for my 1st marathon was needing a pit-stop.  Thankfully it was never an issue and hopefully this is down to my finely honed pre-race food strategy rather than luckimage 

    Welcome lunaman.

    Day 1 of my VLM2011 18-week schedule and I'm ahead of schedule alreadyimage  Have to head in to London tomorrow and won't have time to run, so did a 6 mile treadmill recovery today instead.

  • RS78RS78 ✭✭✭

    I take 2 capsules of Immodium 1 hr before the marathon so I never have to worry about the issue affecting the bloke above, lol

  • Great to see my favourite picture returning to the thread...

    Rest day for me today, as tomorrow's case has settled so I will be able to do a proper run in the daylight!

  • That picture shows that it is really important to get your fuelling strategy right. Wonder if he went through the same scenario on his long runs? image

    Day one of P&D for me today. 14.5kms(9 miles) with 6.5kms(4miles) at HM/15km pace. As I've got a really soft HM time, I started the schedule fairly carefully with an avg. of 6.50m/m for the tempo section. Oh well - off and running now. Only 17 weeks and 6 days to go
  • Welcome luna man!

    I ran a marathon last year using the FIRST schedule and I faded very badly over the last few miles. I know some people like it but it certainly didn’t work for me and I’ll never touch it again. The 3 marathons I ran this year were all off about 50+ average miles, all PB’s and all negative splits. I also had less niggles with the higher but slower miles than I did with FIRST schedules.

    Moraghan’s views on FIRST are very strong!

  • In my own case, I'd never had any stomach problems before, so it was a real surprise. I blame the cheesy pasta from my sister the night before, and lots of downhill. Fortunately it wasn't the end of the world, as long as there are leaves (or loos) around. Two minutes lost (timed on the GPS!) and I still negative splitted / splat (?!).

    Sorry to hear about your experience Badbark. I faded badly too, but know that was because I did nowhere near enough cross training to gain a good endurance base. I just had to look to the duathletes/triathletes who were running much faster than me with lower running mileage to realise that. 

    Interesting about paces and niggles - I think I run with better form at higher paces, so I found the reverse. I was trying the Hadd route in Jan 2010, slowing it right down, and came down with shinsplints. I'd been running happily 50 mpw in a previous year but all hilly off-road stuff, which is surely where we're all intended to run - after all there are so many more woods to hunker down in image

    Anyway, apologies, this is all about running atm!

  • Yes, don't get me started.....FIRST = boil in the bag marathoning and it doesn't belong on a thread full of dedicated runners.  Although I understand the FIRST book is a fair bit different than the FIRST schedules on here, which are extremely poor. 

    RSalter - I'm using them at the moment.  I had to cut away some of the shoe around the right ankle bone because it was too high - although this has been a problem for me in the past with tennis shoes.  I'm pretty underwhelmed all round by them.  They are just about serviceable as a fairly light weight trainer for slow stuff.  Sorry, it that isn't helpful!

  • Could that chap borrow your hat mm. He promises to return it good as new

    I seem to be fairly lucky as far as anal explosions go. As long as I get a good few pre race visits in to the small room it all seems to behave. There. I'm sure you all wanted to know that

    Re - shoes - does anyone here use lighter shoes for shorter races. Is it kid-ology at our level d'you think or does every little help ? I over pronate and have used Nike Structure Triaxx for ages (with my trusty orthotics). Am slightly scared of swapping and stirring up previous knee problems. What's the general consensus. Overall I have to say I'm not that into spending crazy amounts on all sorts of daft trainers but maybe I'm being too head-in-the-sand about it

  • FW I have three pairs of lightweight shoes: Nike marathoners Nike Mayfly and Sauconys (forgot model name). I use the marathoners when racing now as a lightweight shoe but the free Adidas shoes I got for the SSX comp - Supernova stability trainers - I used for my 10k pb. At the the time I wasn't going for a pb but I guess fitness matters at our level more than trainers
  • Hi Moraghan,

    It's the book I used. I don't know the schedules on here, so can't really comment, I should probably take a look at them. Likewise, you'd need to take a look at the book really before forming an opinion. To save you the bother, it has an awful lot of flaws, but is a good starting point for anyone who:

    1. is injury prone when running higher mileage
    2. is a duathlete/triathlete or 
    3. just enjoys cross-training

    After a year with it, all I can conclude is that people who can't run more than 40-50mpw due to injury or other sporting commitments shouldn't feel frightened into thinking that they can't run marathon times in this pretty modest range of 3:15 to 2:59 (modest for men that is).

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