Sub 3h15

1152215231525152715281631

Comments

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    PhilipMJones wrote (see)

    Badbark, is there any science behind the glycogen depleted ultra training? My understanding is that the body stores glycogen and has a good couple of hours in store. If you want to run somewhere round the 3 to 3:15 mark, then you can train and trick your body to store a bit more so you can basically run a marathon on glycogen alone.

    Once you go over this point, you need to find an alternative fuel and that means fat burning or learning how to stuff carbs down your neck and getting them processed and out to the legs. Most ultra runners I know do the latter, so have this ability to eat as they run and so keep the energy topped up.

    The body can only digest and utilize a certain amount of calories an hour, no matter how much is consumed. A lot less than is used while running. So in a 100k ultra at some point the glycogen stores will be depleted and no amount of refuelling with suffice. The body will be using fat as it’s primary source of energy.

    Therefore it’s beneficial to practise running in a glycogen depleted state. This will help train the body to better use fat as fuel. I find it very beneficial mentally too. The last few miles home after the Parkrun, were a lot more challenging than the last few miles of my recent sub 3 marathon. It’s great to know I can cope despite running on empty.

    I did 11 miles this morning including 8 x 0.25 at 5:45 m/m average pace. Happy with that.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    PMJ - yes, I'm hoping it's just the taper kicking in and not simply bad pacing! The website says that the bus leaves from 9:30. So I assume that it will make several trips (Poacher - do you know if this is the case?) If so I won't bust a gut to get there much before 9:30. I will make sure I take a spare top/jacket etc to keep warm while waiting for the start. Baggage is returned to the start, so no excuse for being short of required kit.
    Freemers - sounds like a nice MLR.
    Badbark - looking sharp!

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Bad news on the job front Bike it- does it mean you might come back to Blighty or just look for a new one out there?

    Great feeling when you have to keep a lid on it Gul- all looking good.

    5 miles here after a rest yesterday. Calf seems 95% so I'll give the 10k some welly tomorrow. Around 37 would be enough to make me happy.

  • badbark, always wondered about that. I use about 100 calories per mile and so at a reasonable pace it is about 850 calories an hour and a gel is about 100 calories so 8.5 an hour for sustained running is stupid. I now recall I took a mouthful of gel at VMLM from a gel station and it was the most awful flavour and texture. Would definitely recommend if you want gels then try the ones the race gives and if you don't like them, then take your own. I have to admit I do train in a somewhat depleted state so I have dinner and then I run the next morning off a slice of toast and a cup of tea and am happy to do 20 or so.

     

    Track session at lunch today: 5x1000m off 200m jog recovery. Did the same session 2 weeks ago just inside 4 minutes per rep, today was 3:49 per rep or 19:05 for the 5 efforts. All moving in the right direction: need to get it down to 3:45 (90 seconds or about 6 minute miling if we ignore the 9 metres and a bit) but 3:45 looks a lot more obtainable after 3:49 than it did at 3:59.

  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭
    I can't afford to live in the UK any more OO so we'll stay here. We are mortgage and loan free so financially privledged but still important to get work.



    Good intervals from Gul, BB and PMJ.



    8km/5mile club time trail tonight. I ran 33:09 I think as I missed to stop my Garmin. That's an improvement of around 80-90 seconds since I last ran it and I ran a bit backed off today as a bit cautious to keep it calm. So the training seems to have worked for speed and the distance test will come on 11 days. All good.
  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Sucky news on the job BI and good luck on the search. Debt free is a comfy place to be though. Sound like you are bang on form for Comrades. Getting excited for you already. Has to be on many's bucket list.



    8.5miles last night including 3x1mile at 6mm off 2 mins. All nice and controlled and HR looking v good.

    Swim set today and then a 2hr burn up tonight on tired legs on the TT bike. Dragged my buddy round past Hawkshead and back for 40miles and 3000ft of climbing setting 2 strava 2016 records in the process and a 3rd and an 8th of all time records with him drafting me. Shame I'm not on it myself! Fitness and power gains are definitely coming through now. 10 weeks to go!
  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Gul - don't worry about the bus thing, I think it's all well organised.

    BI - good luck with whatever transpires on the job front. Any sensible employer will want to hire a person who arrives for interview with a Comrades medal round his neck - proof of dedication, stamina, commitment, all good qualities. 

    Too busy to run at the moment. Let's call it a "taper".image

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    "Any sensible employer will want to hire a person who arrives for interview with a Comrades medal round his neck - proof of dedication, stamina, commitment, all good qualities."

    And being permanently injured, knackered and skiving off early to get some extra miles in.....image
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    VTR- 6:45 sounds more like LT than sub LT image

    Bikeit- all the best with the job hunt ...it will do till after comrades image

    Badbark now running on empty imageyou will soon look like a bag o bones as everything is burned up for fuel !

    0053 -smash it 

    PMJ- getting quick 

    Slokey-strava king 

    5 cautious ones , both Achilles a bit tight today lol !

     

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Sorry to hear about the job situ BI.

    Club session was on a local field tonight. Coach measured out specific distances.

    (4 x) 200,175,150,125,100 with walking recoveries back to the start. Field was only a mile from my house so that was my warm up and down sorted. Good session and felt sharp. Still in tickover mode, enjoying it. image

    GD

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    OO - all the best with the 10k today.
    PMJ - nice progress.
    Bike It - looking promising.
    SJ - don't peak too soon!
    Poacher - have you seen the forecast for Saturday? 13-16C, 10-15mph wind, light to heavy rain, humidity 70-85%. Nice.
    GD - sounds like a good session.
    4 recovery miles this morning. ONLY THREE DAYS TO GO!!!
    Time for a summary of WP training:-
    week       miles pace  notable sessions / comments
    04/01/2016 53 08:19 14 / MLR, 12 / MLR, 12 / MLR
    11/01/2016 42 08:03 16 / MLR, 9 / 8 @ MP, 7 / 4 x 0.75M
    18/01/2016 61 08:19 17 / LR, 9 / 6 @ LT, 9 / 5 x 0.75M
    25/01/2016 61 08:21 18 / LR, 12M / MLR, 9 / 5 x 0.75M
    01/02/2016 63 08:25 19 / LR, 12M /MLR, 10 / 16 x 400m
    08/02/2016 47 08:16 12 / MLR, 9 / 5 @ MP, 9 / GA
    15/02/2016 61 08:21 20 / LR, 14 / MLR, 9 / 5 @ LT
    22/02/2016 62 08:25 19 / LR, 14 / MLR, 10 / strides
    29/02/2016 45 08:41 10 / strides, 9 / GA, 8 / GA
    07/03/2016 66 08:16 20 / LR, 14 / MLR, 11 / strides
    14/03/2016 69 08:12 21 / LR, 14 / MLR, 11 / 6 @ LT, 12 / MLR
    21/03/2016 44 08:13 9/ 6 x 600m, 6 / 4 @ LT, 8 / GA
    28/03/2016 70 08:15 21 / LR, 14 / MLR, 12 / MLR, 12 / MLR
    04/04/2016 51 08:19 22 / LR, 10 / 6 x 1k, 2 days rest (hip pain)
    11/04/2016 53 08:08 22 / LR, 10 / hill reps, 11 / strides
    18/04/2016 22 08:08 11 / 6 x 1k, 4 days rest (hip pain / ankles)
    25/04/2016 40 07:39 10k race, 8 / 4 x 1k, 9 / 13 x 400m
    02/05/2016 28 07:55 16 / MLR, 12 / MLR, 5 days rest (holiday)
    09/05/2016 30 07:41 8 / 3 x 1M, 8 / progressive, 8 / 8 x 100m

     

  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭

    Looks like a fantastic training campaign Gul.  You only get out what you have put in so it looks like you would be alright. Have you decided on MP yet?

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    PhilipMJones wrote (see)

    badbark, always wondered about that. I use about 100 calories per mile and so at a reasonable pace it is about 850 calories an hour and a gel is about 100 calories so 8.5 an hour for sustained running is stupid. I now recall I took a mouthful of gel at VMLM from a gel station and it was the most awful flavour and texture. Would definitely recommend if you want gels then try the ones the race gives and if you don't like them, then take your own. I have to admit I do train in a somewhat depleted state so I have dinner and then I run the next morning off a slice of toast and a cup of tea and am happy to do 20 or so..

    Yes, according to the article below the body can ingest and use between 60g to 90g of carbs an hour. The higher rate is for highly trained athletes taking in the correct percentage of glucose and fructose. So for the average person we are only able to ingest and use about 250 calories (1g carbs = 4 cals) an hour, while running can easily burn 750+.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23846824

    So it just highlights how important it is to do some ultra training sessions while glycogen depleted.

  • Gul, great build! The week that jumped out at me was 02/05/2016...10K race, 4 x 1K, then 13 x 400...did this coincide with your recent niggle? That seems like a lot of quality in a single week (you had your speed demon mask on!).

    I might hire the person with the medal simply to have another kindred soul to talk training and racing with!

    Easy run last night with some striders...they were smooth and felt very dynamic. Heel fine after so good test.

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Gul - Very solid campaign behind you there. Is your marathon a road one or trail?

    Went back to the quack on Monday and had the bloods done and now scheduled in for some scans on Friday, so hopefully getting closer to finding out what's going on. I was naughty and did a few jogs over the w/end but nothing longer than 30 mins. I was even naughtier today after a friend asked me to step in and help with a 5k team race on lunch. I had no idea I would even finish but thought what the heck. It was seriously windy but managed to get round in 19:22 which is not too bad all things considered. Good news is the groin held up ok and that pace didn't feel too difficult at all. I'll have a few days rest now until I get the scan out of the way.

  • BI - tough going on the job front but as you've said, at least you don't have to worry about your house being repossessed. The big one is getting ever closer now. I've been casting my mind back to last year and all the excitement that was building by now as I've been lurking on the Comrades thread. It makes pre-London taper-madness seem mild in comparison. Good 5 mile TT as well - stands you in good stead for a sprint into the stadium at the end. 

    Hope everyone's getting excited for this weekend's sporting showdown - I gather the BBC are sending a full camera crew and reporting team to Matlock to cover the finish! Gul is looking in particularly good shape but I'm expecting great things from Poacher as well!!

    Outrageous training from SJ - reminds me why I don't fancy doing an Ironman.

    Good luck in the 10K OO.

    I'm definitely not happy with either Madbark or PMJ - it sounds as though I'll have to forego my pre-run bowl of porridge or Shreddies on Saturday to get the full benefit of my next long run but I hate running in a depleted state. Do either of you take gels / fuel on training runs?

    When it comes to the big day, I've also got to remind myself that eating a scotch egg in the middle of an ultra is NOT a good idea. One of my worst ever running experiences for about an hour afterwards. And I love scotch eggs.

    Steady running for me in the last couple of days - 10.5 miles worth of commuting runs yesterday and another 11.5 this morning. 

  • GM - x-post. That's a pretty impressive 5K time given the conditions. Just take it easy though.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Wow, GM! Cracking 5k. I'm still yet to break 20 mins.image

    GM

  • Lorenzo: nothing on a training run at all. Like to run with noting but my thoughts (and obviously a GPS watch).

    Gul, great campaign and same question as above: MP?

    VTrunner wrote (see)

    I might hire the person with the medal simply to have another kindred soul to talk training and racing with!

    Double edged sword: we have an office in Lebanon, New Hampshire and in the summer of 2014 I strung a few segments into a run and and did it at 7 minute sper mile as a tempo and picked up CRs but since then I have dropped down the leader-board and it is all names I know from our office going out for solo blasts.

    Watch out Lot 20 Clockwise, I am out again this summer.

  • LB70LB70 ✭✭✭

    Well done on the 5K GM - hopefully the test results will be good

    GD - based on your VMLM training, I think your coach is right to get you to target sub 3 in Berlin - looking forward to reading how your training progresses

    Good luck to Poacher and Gul for Saturday

    Apologies for reverting to lurker mode, but I had two weeks rest post-London and work has been very busy. I'm now back running and I managed 20:20 at Newark parkrun on Saturday, so will target a sub 20 this week. Next proper race is a 10K on the 17th June. Although I'm currently unsure of my target, I'm hoping that I'll be back in sub 39 shape by then

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    G-Dawg - Thanks and you'll smash 20 minutes for a 5k given your training and recent form.

    SJ - You are really enjoying your training at the mo and seem to be in fine form. Nice!

    Bike it - Sorry to hear about the work issues but I'm sure you will make a plan! Nice 8k TT. Making progress and bodes well for your jaunt around Natal.

    LB70 - Thank you and good to hear you are back to it. Nice parkrunning.

    Lorenzo - I must admit I was surprised as I thought I'd run around high 19. It's a corporate event and attracts about 250 runners on their lunch break. The course is hideous, along the sea front and down by the harbour with 6 turns and the last one is a 270 degree turn which is almost impossible to run around. My best on that particular one was 18:53 but that was about 2 years ago. It's my first 5k in ages. I think the lack of running and weight loss, (I am lighter now than when I ran Manchester) made the pace feel easier than it would normally have. I too have tried the deplete thing in training and it didn't work well for me but I guess it needs quite a bit of practice and prep.

    OO - Hope you had a great 10k. IIRC you're a dab hand at that distance. image

     

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Oh dear. image Gul has been training really well for WP, while my efforts consist of:
    Manc mara - 3.26
    VLM - 3.17
    And not run much since then except for a Parkrun, but have XTrained by shifting many tonnes of soil, wielding a pickaxe, and several days of mind numbing tedium painting fences.  Definitely going to get to the start line on Saturday, but after renewing GFA in London there's no pressure so I will enjoy seeing Gul speed off into the sunset.

    Looking forward to Comrades too, and I think Bike It is in line for a fast one. It's a very meaningful event on several levels, and a celebration of much more than just running. Not ruling out a return in a couple of years time.

    Good performances recorded by GM and others - nice work

    I recall Lorenzo's Scotch egg trauma from some years back - obviously still a painful memory! Stick to tripe sarnies next time, bound to be easier to digest.image

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Bike It / PMJ  - 7:30m/m sounds like a good target. Leaves a bit in hand for a sub 3:20 and should all go better than planned it's fairly close to 3:15 too!
    Badbark - eating or fuelling before/during running is something I usually only do when racing! Do you think it's necessary to train my body to get used to running on non-depleted glycogen stores?!!
    GM - the WP marathon is on "firm compacted limestone and cinder surfaces on former railway tracks" so basically an off-road road event! Speedy 5k - be careful now!
    Lorenzo - good steady running. Are you commentating from the studio?
    LB70 - good to hear you've recovered and building up for another race.
    Poacher - good specificty in your training.  If you remember to bring a spare gel belt I might give it a go if that's okay, thanks. But looking at the weather I might be wearing a jacket and can stick them in the pockets instead before literally sailing off into the sunsetimage
    Decided to make today's run the last one before Saturday so I can have a good sleep and lie-in tonight/tomorrow morning. So 4 miles with a few strides brings my training to completion.

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    The thread smackdown looms! Looking forward to the Big Event on Saturday, even if the forecast isn't terribly special. Best wishes to you both.

    GM's casual 5k made me chuckle. I couldn't get anywhere near that time, and you just post a race like that on a less than ideal course without having done much running for a while! Excellent stuff.

    And GD, as others have said, you'd cruise under 20 mins for a 5k on present form. Well under, I suspect.

    Some solid training being posted by many others, although sorry to hear about BI's job situation. A spanner in the works, and hopefully you'll be able to find a suitable replacement swiftly.

    Plodding on here, time for the now weekly 5k time trial as part of today's run. Conditions look good after last night's thunder/hail storm!

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    Lorenzo wrote (see)

     

    I'm definitely not happy with either Madbark or PMJ - it sounds as though I'll have to forego my pre-run bowl of porridge or Shreddies on Saturday to get the full benefit of my next long run but I hate running in a depleted state. Do either of you take gels / fuel on training runs?

     You'll be thanking us 40 miles into your race when you are not dying on your feet with almost a marathon still to run. image

    Answering your fuelling question, it all depends on the distance and the purpose of the run. I never take anything if running less than 15 miles but usually 500ml of my own energy drink up to 20 miles. I would take a second 500ml drink if running much over 20 miles. If I go over 30 miles I would take a third.

    I rarely take gels but do like to test a new brand out if I will be taking it during a race.

    I’m going for my final very long run on Saturday before the 100k in 3 weeks. This will be the ‘dress rehearsal’ so will be testing my planned fuel for the race, to make sure I have no stomach issues.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Well done GM, 5k is tough so good that the bod held up.

    My 10k was a mixed bag. A 2 lap course in good conditions. I went off like the clappers, first lap (5k) in 18:14. Second lap was tougher and a slipped a bit each mile. Finished in 37:04- another near miss off a good 36:XX time. Was also beaten by a few rivals and lost out to a V50 in a sprint finish, meaning I picked up the prize for 3rd V50. All in all not a bad night, but still a bit disappointed...   

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Top bombing OO. Very impressive time. I need to enter some short stuff in order to get a decent 5k and 10k PB.

    Have entered the Dorking 10 mile event for the start of June. It will be the first run of the Berlin campaign

    GD

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Well done, 10 miles is my favourite distance GM image

  • Impressive training Gul - you've put in a great campaign. Good luck to you & Poacher!

    Looks like there is some good running going on still.

    Hope your groin issue gets sorted Gm.

    Not done much running since Manchester as I've had a glute & calf issue. I wouldn't say I was injured, but it's still not right. I can't run for more than 800m without getting cramp in my calf and having to stop to stretch. Then strangely I can carry on running? DNS on a race last week and have nothing in the diary at the moment which is weird. I feel like I have lost a lot of fitness and plan to build up the mileage slowly.

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Stonking time OO! image



    Looks like a solid block of work there Gul. I hope you and Poacher will post immediately after the race so we can see the smackdown result.



    Ouch KR. That's quite a while to be still having a problem. Seen anyone about it?



    Rest day yesterday, up with the sparrows this morning for 4K of watery punishment then 9 miles tonight with 10mins at 6mm.
Sign In or Register to comment.