Sub 3h15



  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭

    Great work Gul, tough course under tough conditions made a great race and great story.  A PB is a PB so well done.  An excellent report too.

    Good to see Poacher doing one more too on little training.  Well done

    Some great VLSRs from Badbark and Lorenzo.  I had a look at that ITB stretch Badbark and couldn't even get into the starting position so backed it off to where I could and it seemed to help.  Thanks for posting that video too VTR.

    I spend most of yesterday massaging a lacrosse ball into my legs.  This morning a lot better so went out for 20km.  Nearly binned it in the first metres, but persisted and made it round with some pain.  More lacrosse ball today and spent 20 minutes in the pool up to the waist - it is about 10C in there at the moment.

    Fingers crossed  all would be OK for next Sunday to do about 90km of running

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    BB your strength an will power is monumental- splendid effort.

    Well done Gul and Poacher- two thread gents indeed. Really great report Gul, amazing that you pulled off a PB in very tough conditions. I don't think you lack mental strength at all.

    And well done Jools, that's a very fast 5k time, and shows your form is still good despite your recent injury.

    I stayed in Geneva this w/end and had a rare visit from Mrs OO. In spite of some serious sightseeing and easing back after the 10k mid week, pleased to report my highest mileage week since VLM with 43 miles.


  • Fish52Fish52 ✭✭✭

    Well played to Gul and Poacher at White Peak. I looked at some photos on the WP facebook page, with finishers looking like they'd just competed in a winter cross country event.

    Tough conditions, well toughed out...and a Good Samaritan Award and PB to boot.

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Gul-Great report,on a road course 3:20 should be achievable ,have some beliefe in the training and your ability image and as PMJ says the best way to settle pre race nerves is get used to racing image There are no shortage of races out there so keep plugging away !

    VTR- don't forget the LT as well,get that speed up. image 

    MSE- sounds like a comeback is long overdue.

    Bike it -nearly there now get the cotton wool out .

    4 x 800m this morn at 6:30 m/mile (ish) might chance a 5k soonish image

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Gul - Great honest report and a good performance on what sounded like a tough course. PMJ speaks wise words and I bet you will run a much quicker time on a fast road course.

    Poacher - Well done too and fair play, you're  a good man.

  • Head up Gul - as others have said a PB on a difficult course in less than ideal conditions is definitely something to be proud of. Top 30 if I'm able to fathom out the results on the website. 

    PMJ's words were very wise and I'd echo them unconditionally - your training was bang on and your ability and determination to everything that was needed is not in doubt. It's not about mental strength but, in my humble opinion, having the confidence  that you've done everything you need to do and being able to relax and not get stressed in the hour before the race and the first few miles. I suspect that alot of energy was expended unnecessarily.

    Have a break, then find a good flat marathon in autumn and don't tell anyone on here about it until you report back when you've smashed 3:15, a time that you are undoubtedly capable of if the conditions are right.

    Great stuff from you there Poacher - what's the world record for number of marathons run in a year with zero training?!

    SJ - a nice, relaxing weekend for you then?!

    Hope the lacrosse ball and the cold pool have the desired effect BI.

    Good luck with the dissertation MsE - let me know when you fancy another run along the NDW. 

    My legs still felt a bit weary today but I allowed younger Lorenzito to persuade me to run a 3000m as a non-scorer in the Southern Atheltics League match this afternoon. Plodded round in 11:32 but looking back that's only 10s off my PB so not too shabby. Doing the same distance again tomorrow evening in the Vets League.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Abbers - nice progress with your time trial.
    PMJ - nicely paced 600m reps.
    Freemers - hope you had a good weekend for running. Sounds like you've been making use of the gym by your new workplace!
    PMJ - yes, following your track session, that's a good parkrun result.
    Lorenzo - excellent off-road and towpath VLR. 11:32 for 3000m the day afterwards is great in my book! You'll be faster this evening.
    Birch - still a good effort at parkrun on an undulating course!
    Poacher - commiserations on the Cup Final result.
    Badbark - just unbelievable. 51 miles @ 8:08 m/m including the time for breaks is staggering.
    SJ - cracking weekend of training. Very impressive.
    Jools - well done on the parkrun PB.
    VTr - hope your heel is OK.
    Bike It - sorry to hear about the ITB issue. Hope it eases up.
    Leslie - good 800m efforts. A 5k sounds like a good idea!
    The unofficial official results are in now on the Matlock AC website and looks like there is gun time only so I have lost 14 seconds, but still scraped a PB in 3:30:25. I still haven't looked up the official time of my previous PB, but I think WP is now a 9 second PB. Overall position 29th and 5th MV50. Something to be proud of. Thanks for all your kind words guys.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    I bet you weren't out at 4 am this morning Gul image

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭


  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    That Gul, he's become a slacker image

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    I'm sure Poacher won't mind me sharing this post-race photo with you all:-


     The friendly smackdown!

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    My wife managed to snap one of me on the finishing straight - I was obviously too much of a blur closer to the lineimage



  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Good running folks. Bike It - take care, trust the training etc, and DBS. When Shosholoza starts, and then when the cock crows, everything will fall into shape.

    So, White Peak: I entered as a fallback in case of missing GFA in London, and cos it's a local off road race in glorious countryside. With GFA knocked off, it was only ever going to be a fun day out on a course I knew to be not all that fast. Last time I was there in 09, only 2 runners broke 3hrs and my 3.12 was good enough for 11th place. This year, similarly, there were only 2 sub-3 times and just 17 in total sub-3.20. Winning female did 3.24 and 3.42 would have secured a female podium finish; I think this shows that Gul did very well to PB, esp. in very trying weather.

    Gul's schoolboy errors at the start were surely the sign of nerves. All that fuss over a chip, and now only gun times seem to have been given on a disjointed results sheet. Maybe chip times will follow. We started off quite relaxed at around 7.30mm, this was a good way to test the legs but it was immediately clear that after weeks of seriously heavy landscaping labour there was nothing in the tank.  I thought 3.3X was a more realistic target so after about 4m dropped off the pace and wished Gul well as he sped on.  The route is almost all on disused railway tracks, heading north at first with the initial 7m slightly but perceptibly uphill.

    The course doubled back and headed south at about 12m, Gul was a couple of minutes ahead by now so I treated him to a Bolt lightning tribute and was rewarded with a Mobot. Spectators were amused anyway. Some silly OG called out that the rest of the race would be downhill, with a tailwind; a transparent lie as from 12-21m it was at least flat but even more exposed to swirling head and side winds, with periods of running straight into driving rain.

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭ have to admire the 19th c. navvies who slogged to drive a flat(-tish) railway across rolling hills well over 1000ft above sea level. There are numerous cuttings and tunnels which on a bad day turn into wind tunnels. Also many long straight sections of running towards a horizon which never seems to come any closer.

    At around 20m the field was rather thin and I saw a lone runner doubled up by the side of the track, one shoe off and apparently in pain. I stopped to see if he was OK; it appeared to be cramp and fatigue and he started again. Turned out he was an IM type who was aiming for a stand alone mara PB of sub-3.45; but it must be almost impossible to do the right amount of mara-specific training while investing so much time on swim/bike.  As we jogged on he became ever more fatigued and cramped, and was desperate to be dragged to the finish. I was in no particular hurry, and we've all benefitted at times from the help of other runners, so staying with the fella seemed the right thing to do. Plus I picked up some handy bike tips. (If I had known that Gul was only a few minutes ahead and starting to detonate, I might not have been so charitable image)

    From 21-25m there are 3 long, long descents which are fast but absolutely trash the lower body. As we hammered down the final one, I told the fella that the pain was almost over. At this point, right on cue, we passed a clubmate who screamed in agony that one of his toenails had come off and was trying to poke up through the top of his shoe.image He too was going for sub-3.45 (and made it!). The rest was painful stumbling and cramp as the clock ticked on past 3.40; eventually we crossed the line in 3.43.30 so the fella had his PB, and I had my 65th mara/ultra d&d.

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    So I got to see not one but two people nail their targets and go home happy. I could/should have gone 3.3X but who cares. A bit of a lie down, then the honour of congratulating Gul on his PB and also meeting the very supportive MrsGul.  With hindsight, 3.20 was probably a long shot for Gul on a course which can easily grind down one's hopes and dreams, but holding it together for 3.30 was excellent work.  There's a much faster time in there somewhere, ideally on a flattish road course in early spring or mid autumn.  I think PMJ is right about racing more, even if it's just Parkrun. Getting that next mara PB needs to be more like a routine job where you turn up and do what needs to be done, knowing that everything from the training to the race morning checklist and the pacing strategy are tried and tested. The real marathon is getting to the start line in one piece; race day is just about doing it. Whatever "it" is.

    Anyway: Gul you a gent and it was a pleasure to lose the smackdown.  Next time I will wear a white vest with a white flag sewn onto it.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Great report, Poacher. Once again, well done on such a great effort and for generously sacrificing some time to help that guy PB.

    "The real marathon is getting to the start line in one piece; race day is just about doing it. Whatever "it" is."

    I've heard similar a number of times over the years and it's so true. I've been quite lucky over the past 2 years where I've had minor niggles, managed them well and somehow arrived at the start in good shape.

    Funny enough, I now know when I'm in good shape as it seems when training has gone well and I'm the best prepared I could possibly have been I'm very quite and super anxious before the gun goes. If I'm confident and chatty, I'm kidding myself that I've missed a session or three and it'll somehow be just fine. On no!


  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    Fine report, Poacher - the WP smackdown & reporting of it has me thinking "maybe one more "  . . . but I'm trying to talk myself out of it !  

  • Gretat reports Gul & Poacher. Sounds a very testing marathon. Gul I've sure a more flatter course would yield a bigger PB and especially with a bigger field so not so much solo running. I think with course like this you can be very satisfied with a time like that and especially a PB too. Poacher, next time you should have a first aid kit with you too - just in caseimage Nice photo on you both together.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Well done on committing to another campaign, Birch. Which one will it be? I'm predicting great things. image

    Had 3 days off and went out for a hilly 5 at lunchtime. felt a bit rusty and a bit fat after a heavy social gathering weekend. Managed 7.08 pace without looking at the watch, so my cruising speed is in good shape. I really hate the hill at the end, kills all my averages.


  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭

    Great report Poacher - I enjoyed reading that. Uplifting to be reminded that it is not just about the time it takes, but how you get there.

    I just had my pain threshold reset in advance of Sunday by a 104kg 2m tall physio.  A lot of things are tight and the ITB is just one so I've had a session of deep tissue release and dry needling.  It was frankly excruciating pain and I thought I would be leaving in a wheelchair. The treatment has already helped, despite the pain resulting from the treatment,  and he believes I would be fine by Sundayimage.  A 'lighter' session booked for Thursday.

    The nerves I've had are now beginning to subside and thoughts turning to Sunday's race.  Singing Shozoloza to myself and humming Chariots of Fire.  Looking Forward to it nowimage


  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Good news, BikeIt image


  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Bike it- admirable that you pay for such pain.

    Excellent result Poacher- really enjoyed the report, though you might have chosen a better phrase than seeing  two friends 'nail it' given that one guy lost one from his big toe image

    steady plod here in cold, rain and wind- what happened to summer? 

  • VTrunner wrote (see)
    Also, PMJ, give a holler when you are out to NH next. I'm collaborating with a biotech outfit down there so might find a reason to cross paths on your next visit. Birch, keep the wheels rolling!

    I am in NH from August 15th to the 19th, but if there is something decent to do on Saturday 20th I can stay on a day for such. Seems to be a 5 mile race Thursday night, Berlin Pond Five Miler.

    East 5 today, 5k race tomorrow evening, first of our summer 5k series.

  • Great report Poacher - you should be proud of what you helped others achieve. When's your next race?

    Sounds more promising BI - all fingers and toes crossed for you.

    Good pace from you G-Dawg. I'll be looking out for you at the Dorking 10 (although you'll have to give me your number as I'm not wandering around the big field asking strangers if they are G-Dawg). I'll be driving the lead car(!) and then on chip removal duty at the finish.

    4.5 easy this morning followed by my 2nd 3000m in 2 days at the Vets League this evening - the rain started just as the gun went off and the first flash of lightening appear after 400m so it made for interesting running conditions.

    Surprised myself a bit with 11:14 or so, some 18s faster than yesterday and a 7 second PB. image Not sure how many chances I'll get over the summer to try and get sub-11 but it's a good target to aim for.


  • Not been in here for a few days, good to see 2 great reports from Gul and Poacher, I do like reading a comprehensive race report, always entertaining. Congrats to you both on great racing on a tough course.

    Glad your knee seems to be continuing to improve Jools.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Poacher - enjoyed your report. I'd forgotten about the toe-nail!

    Poacher wrote (see) have to admire the 19th c. navvies who slogged to drive a flat(-tish) railway across rolling hills well over 1000ft above sea level.

    I also forgot to do some altitude training. Must be worth another few minutesimage Well done on number 65.
    Birch - maybe see you at Mablethorpe then!
    GD - not too shabby after the weekend though.
    Bike It - ouch! You've put me off sports massages for life. Pleased it seems to have been worth it for you.
    PMJ - all the best for tonight's 5k.
    Lorenzo - congratulations! Great performance and nice to have a new target.
    This is only day 3  of my complete break from running and my resolve is weakening. Managed to avoid yielding to temptation by looking for the next target race. But now thinking that two months of low mileage is too long unless I can wait till mid November or later for another crack at sub 3:20. And I'm not sure I could face the dreaded Autumn Shakespeare...

  • Gul, I am fairly sure that each year places appear for Abingdon marathon as people drop out and there is a waiting list and I have heard that people on list almost certainly get places.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Oooh, thanks PMJ. I look for Saturdays, 2nd Sundays or half-term weekends and this year Abingdon has slipped into the start of half-term, so could be a go-er. Closer to home is Leicester if not.

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Well done, Lorenzo image


    Gul - food for thought?

    Maximal vs Optimal Adaptation Rate
    by Greg McMillan

    How many times has this happened to you? You perform incredible
    workouts but your racing performances are disappointments. You train
    harder only to race even poorer. You begin to ride the highs and lows of
    an emotional roller coaster. You're confused and frustrated and begin to
    search for the latest and greatest training method that will help you.
    Often, what you really need is to understand a simple training concept,
    one that will put your training back on track and open the possibility
    of new PRs.

    When training results outpace racing results, the training is too hard.
    You're asking your body to adapt at a greater rate than is possible. You
    can maintain your intense training regimen for a short while, but
    something has to give eventually, and in the end your too-hard routine
    is your downfall. (See "Coach's Notes" below for signs of if you've
    fallen into this trap.)

    Great runners and coaches have learned how to avoid this disastrous
    scenario. They recognize that each runner has two rates of adaptation: a
    maximal rate and an optimal rate. Adaptation is defined as the
    physiological and psychological changes that allow us to perform better.

    The maximal adaptation rate occurs when your body is adapting as fast as
    possible to the stresses you put on it. It summons all its resources to
    build new blood-delivering capillaries, energy-producing mitochondria,
    and stronger muscles and tendons. But adapting at the maximal rate
    requires that your body be stressed to its limit. Over time you're bound
    to push past that limit and get injured or burned out and perform

    The optimal rate of adaptation, on the other hand, occurs when the body
    is stressed to a tolerable level, allowing it time to adapt without
    having to draw on every ounce of its physical and mental reserves. It
    gradually adapts and is at far less risk for injury or burnout. At the
    end of a training run you feel pleasantly fatigued but also know that
    you could have done a little more.

    Thus, the challenge during speed work is not to give the old 110
    percent, or even 100 percent -- it's to train at around 90 percent.
    Great coaches such as Arthur Lydiard, David Martin, Bob Larsen and Bill
    Squires advocate this method of "controlled" training. You'll find that
    your body is never overstressed and adapts gradually but progressively,
    always leaving you hungry for more. A little control will make training
    more enjoyable and lead to greater overall improvement and, most
    importantly, better race performance. I call it finding your sweet spot
    in training. Once you do, you'll never have so much fun with your

    Consider Brian, a non-elite but ambitious runner I coach. Brian is a
    naturally competitive person. His drive and tenacity helped him become
    very successful in the medical sales industry. He carried this same
    drive into his running but quickly hit a plateau. He worked harder. Got
    slower. Worked even harder. Got even slower. Like many driven runners,
    he constantly tried to "beat" the training paces from my online training
    pace calculator.

    I saw Brian's pattern early in our coaching relationship and knew he was
    training maximally, not optimally. It was a tough change to back off
    slightly in workouts, but he soon started setting PRs at every
    distance. He's now qualified for Boston and blows away his rivals from
    just a year ago. Brian is the perfect example of finding a sweet spot in
    training. Challenge yourself just enough but not too much, and you'll<

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