Sub 3h15

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  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Great stuff BB and although a tough day, it was much better than last time you were there - you didn't even need a hospital this time! What are you going to tweak for the 12hr race? Sounds like the nutrition wasn't quite right.
  • Madbark, absolutely classic report. Love the fact that the initial goal was sub 9 (so I assume 8:59:59 would have put a smile on your face) and you end up going through the blender and coming home in 9:11:24 which in most people's opinion is pretty close to 9 hours anyway.

    Any reflections on pace choice? 9 hours for 100k is 27 minutes per 5k and you set out at 25 minutes per 5k which is 4:10 for 50k and you pretty much hit that target. If you used the same plans for a 3 hour marathon then this would give you 1:23:20 for the first half and 1:36:40 for the second half which would not be offered as a plan by anyone sensible. I appreciate ultras are different and you have to plan to slow down, but that does seem extreme to me.

     

    Drunken Euphoria on tour wrote (see)
    I've been around the running world awhile bit always interested to see how others do things. Especially those a bit faster than me the running on empty to get efficient at fat burning plan trial comes from reading Eoin Keith blog, it's amazing how little fuel he takes on in a multiday race, in car terms he's like some sort of efficient hybrid sports car with a long range, I can do the range but more a tractor in pace and consumption

    I try and follow a middle sort of ground in regard to this sort of thing. I do my long runs (up to the low 20s) first thing in the day and I do them carrying no food nor drink but I do have a cup of tea and a slide of toast beforehand. My theory is that on race day, there will always be a significant period before the race and I know I can't get up at 6am and race at 10am and fast for those 4 hours, so if I get up at 6am and train at 7am, I have a drink and a little food so I get used to running in that state.

     

    Summer 5k last night but didn't look too much like summer at all. It was in the same park as I do most my parkruns but was on a different course which looks easier on paper. I went out too fast, first km well under 6 minute pace, and then slowed down too much. Overall time was 19:22 which is a second faster than my fastest parkrun there this year but I was hoping to be a lot closer to 19. 1 mile race on Sunday so I'll take some positives that I can do a few fast bits.

     

     

     

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    PhilipMJones wrote (see)

    Madbark, absolutely classic report. Love the fact that the initial goal was sub 9 (so I assume 8:59:59 would have put a smile on your face) and you end up going through the blender and coming home in 9:11:24 which in most people's opinion is pretty close to 9 hours anyway.

    Any reflections on pace choice? 9 hours for 100k is 27 minutes per 5k and you set out at 25 minutes per 5k which is 4:10 for 50k and you pretty much hit that target. If you used the same plans for a 3 hour marathon then this would give you 1:23:20 for the first half and 1:36:40 for the second half which would not be offered as a plan by anyone sensible. I appreciate ultras are different and you have to plan to slow down, but that does seem extreme to me.

     . 

     

    You are completely right. If I had of run a few minutes slower per lap from the start, I may indeed have went sub 9 hours. However, to be 100% honest I secretly thought that I could run close to 8:30 if everything went well. So I was thinking of about 4:10 and 4:2x for each half.

    Breaking 9 hours was not in the least bit important to me. It was just a round figure that I thought I would run, even if things went a bit wrong. It went worse than I feared! imageimage

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Its a great report BB, really excellent reading. Beyond mere mortal, certainly beyond me. Very well done sir.

    I'm plodding along with an average week. I'm on holiday in Cornwall next week so plenty of long runs with junior planned. 

  • Cracking run Badbark. That was some fast pace off-road no matter how runnable the terrain might be. Re. the heat, I'm similar in that I've always suffered on marathon+ events at anything close to challenging pace if its hot, particularly if its sunny. Makes nearly all the food I can usually tolerate intolerable. During TDS last year got really nauseous and ground to a halt hallway up a huge steep climb, once I levelled out I stopped and drank a coke which is all I could tolerate at the time. Got me some wind up and gradually recovered after that at a more moderate pace. Wasn't sure if just the heat, too much water or if the continental food offering wasn't to my taste. Or a bit of all that. Had a similar loss of food tolerance on first day of the Northern Traverse earlier this month, not so nauseous though, on a hot and cloudless day, turned it around after slowing down awhile and salty snacks additional liquids. Wondered if my energy drinks were to blame, but then when a bit cooler the next few days I had no such issues. Really don't know if you can completely train for those days, or if you just have to accept a slower pace.

    Hi again Lorenzo and Freemers, glad your both still going well in the mad world of distance running image

    Re, Hull mara target, will see how training goes, but a PB would be good (sub 3.15 pretty much), a wedge out of that would be great.

    PhilipMJones wrote (see)
    I try and follow a middle sort of ground in regard to this sort of thing. I do my long runs (up to the low 20s) first thing in the day and I do them carrying no food nor drink but I do have a cup of tea and a slide of toast beforehand. My theory is that on race day, there will always be a significant period before the race and I know I can't get up at 6am and race at 10am and fast for those 4 hours, so if I get up at 6am and train at 7am, I have a drink and a little food so I get used to running in that state.

     Sounds about what I was thinking. I run into work most Fridays, so regularly been doing upto 10m on just a cup of tea (makes breakfast oo so enjoyable). Likewise on sundays if not much longer. I agree with you that will be eating on race day, so I need to eat before the longest training runs, but for the others either all on empty, something small before or during as needed. Has changed my ability to run on empty, as now I can do a pretty good effort pre-breakfast and not much better without, whereas used to make a world of difference. I say empty, but that cup of tea is required!

    Good effort on the 5k, sure you can bring it down, I'll join you on that as running mid-19's this year and want to be challenging my parkrun PB which was sub 19 comfortably a few years ago (though at a different park where course is all on path). Not in the plan, but the occasional 5k and even a 10k and a HM will be good tests of progress.

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Well, being between jobs I spent 9hrs today painting window frames, skirting boards, doors etc and boy was it tedious. The only thing that kept me going was the hope that when I finally clocked off I would go online and stumble across a post including the words " I released wind strong enough to shake the loo and the relief was instant".

    So Madbark made my day. image image

    That's a cracking run with lots of cojones on display. Recent posts from MB and DEOT show again that mara and ultra are totally different sports. Ultra is all about keeping in motion, making some kind of progress in the right direction, believing you will cross that line today, or maybe tomorrow, through sheer willpower. Maras, especially on the road, can be rather geeky in comparison. DEOT you undoubtedly have a faster mara in there, and Hull would be a good opportunity to forget the ultras and focus on something (relatively) short & fast, with a different mindset.  

    Also, just as there are light years of difference between HM & mara, the difference between say 50m & 100k is huge.

    Lorenzo - fully prepared for the big one?  A memorable journey awaits. 

     

  • Holy cow Madbark - awesome stuff. I'm going to have your words going through my mind on Saturday. Other than worrying about the distance being a bit scary, I'm just trying to work out whether going clubbing in the Toon is a good idea afterwards! image

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Badbark - I just can't comprehend how you managed to finish that one - fantastic stuff. You certainly completed the unfinished business. Preparing mentally for the 12 hour race is going to be a challenge!
    Leslie - the data shows that er... my heart rate varies!
    PMJ - go smash that mile on Sunday.
    OO - enjoy Cornwall!
    DEot - sounds like a good target for Hull. I am wondering whether I ought to start eating something before some of my long runs. Currently they're all run on empty and then come race day I am not used to all the carb-loading!
    Poacher - tedious jobs like that should be good mental prep for track maras like Raceways though!
    Lorenzo - all the best this weekend.
    6 slow miles. Similar pace to yesterday but HR lower (134).

  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo - OK, so it was only a marathon but Minni took us clubbing on the Toon after the Town Moor in 2012. Did wonders for the DOMS - my legs felt the best ever the next day after a marathon. So I'd say go for it image

    Poacher - I agree that was a cracking quote in BB's post.  I also couldn't resist the temptation of going back to 2014 and finding out what the reference to "walnut" was all about....really wished I hadn't done that image

    I'm off shortly for a two-day half-jolly/half-work thing in a posh hotel in Newbury.  We'll be working this afternoon but the hotel have agreed to record the football for anyone who wants to watch it afterwards....what are the chances of nobody checking the scores on their phones....?

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Zero chance Freemers but enjoy the jolly! I remembered the walnut vividly and wished I'd forgotten.



    Breakthrough swim session this morning - 90minutes of kick drills saw me move from the back of the group to easily beating county level swimmers - couldn't believe it! Suddenly it all clicked together. I just need to introduce arms to the equation and I'll be sortedimage
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Lorenzo-after any of my mara's I nearly needed a stretcher just to get home but if you can why not image

    Freemers have a nice jolly but don't mention the walnuts some of us have a nut allergy after that image

    Slokey - great news on the new technique soon the podium will be yours image 

    17 mile consisting of 5 easy, 11 @ 7:30 and 1 easy image

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Yes indeed Leslie - I'm looking forward to battling with Moof next month. I'm taking his silence on the matter as quiet confidence which is keeping me motivated.



    Packing my bike up today for a trip to France on Saturday - a week of coast to coast cycling across the Pyrenees - epic stuff. Day 2 looks a bit frisky with 14500ft of ascent. Happy days!
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Impressive Leslie! 

    I only managed 7 in the Geneva rain.

     

     

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Slokey, you are a total beast. Sounds like an awesome trip. Enjoy.

     

    Walnuts imageimageimage Rank, really rank.

    No running, painting ceilings image Maybe tomorrow.

  • VTrunnerVTrunner ✭✭✭

    *Gasp* Coming up for air before diving deep again. Work and life have been totally overpowering of late. But still getting some miles in but nothing fast yet. Heel better but lower back a bit not good so sorting this out.

    But had to break radio silence to say a big congrats to BB! You are one bad dude. Be proud of that accomplishment. I had a feeling you might have had some stomach issues when you reported tough times in your first update. Nothing worse and glad you were able to shake the loo! Not sure how you can contemplate the super long race upcoming (isn't his a bit like childbirth...can't have another until the memory of the first fades sufficiently?image). Well good luck on the next one!

    Lorenzo, much good karma on way to you as well. Steady till the end!

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    Thanks for all the kind words and support everyone. This thread was one of the things I was thinking of when I was struggling. I didn’t want to report on a failure, and knew I’d get a lot of virtual pats on the back if I finished. You guys rock!

    Here are a few tips for Lorenzo or anyone else running a 100k.

    I found boiled sweets were the only thing that I could stomach late on, so make sure to have a large bag available. Mine were a selection of mints with 3 being about 100 cals.

    Bring Deflatine or something similar to help release trapped wind - http://www.boots.com/en/Rennie-Deflatine-36-Tablets-_1902/ 

    Don’t eat or drink ANYTHING you haven’t testing in training. I had a few cups of Coke that probably caused the wind issues.

    Run slower than you have ever run before and take plenty of breaks.

    Some point after 35 miles you will run out of glycogen no matter how much fuel you ingest. The slower you go at the start the later this will happen. Once is happens you’ll want to stop and you won’t believe you could possibly make it to the finish. You can. Walk for a while, run slower, take breaks but keep progressing. As you get closer to the finish things will get better again.

    Dig deep, you have it in you.image

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Yeah, good luck with that Lorenzo!image

    Seriously, all the best with your race and remember to enjoy it too (at least for the first bit!).
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    no fear, I'll never go beyond 26.2 miles image

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Freemers - hope you're enjoying the jolly!
    SJ - nice work - Moof will be quaking in his flippers! I'd love to visit the Pyrenees, but think I'd give cycling a 14,500ft ascent a miss!
    Leslie - excellent 17 miler.
    VTr - hi. Still plugging away with the slow miles here. Not bored with it yet...
    Badbark - thanks for the advice. Maybe I'll need it one day.
    9 slow miles at silly o'clock (HR 135). Then a 3 + 2 mile bus sandwich (HR 162 and 159).

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭

    Noted, BB, although the closest I intend to come to that is Comrades - but not for a few years!

    Club session last night: 3 x 1M (6.03, 5.52, 5.54) and 10 x 30s (ave 5.20m/m).  Calves a bit tight having done my recce of my Cotswold Way Relay leg on Tuesday: jogging uphill at my slower clubmate's pace saw me really up on my toes and boy have my calves let me know!

  • VTrunnerVTrunner ✭✭✭

    Gul, glad to hear you are squeezing from the bottom! You may naturally progress to a point where those slow miles feel really good sandwiched around 2 quality sessions and a LR. 

    2 days ago I did a subLT session in heart of a very sunny/hot day. Failure on all fronts (got a little heat sickness that lingered plus my claytons, which I thought I'd broken in enough to skip blisters, gave me blisters!). Yesterday did an easy 10M at dusk and they were gentle and blissfully cool. Ahhhh.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Great report BB, outstanding determination. Congrats!

    Hope the jolly is full of carbo-loading of the best sort, Freemers!image 

    Week 2 of the Berlin campaign almost done. Adjusting to 5 runs per week is tough on the legs but I hope they get used to it. 10 miler on Wednesday was hard work after the 15x400 track session the night before and the sub-7 six miler the day before that. Could only manage an easy pace of 7.43. Legs felt mashed.

    Last night was a 4x1 mile track session. Coach said to do 6.30 pace, this felt comfy so I treated myself to a 6.12 final rep.

    Rest today and just 8 miles tomorrow.

    GD

  • Thanks for the advice Barbark. I'm not feeling as bouncy and positive as you were before your run but I've got everything packed and ready to go. Just got to remind myself not to start too fast and have plenty of walking breaks.

    Thanks to everyone for the best wishes.  Hope I don't let the thread down.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Jools - nice club session.
    VTr - not too hot over here at the moment, just wet.
    GD - sounds like you earned a rest yesterday.
    Lorenzo - all the best. You won't be letting anyone down, whatever.
    8 slow miles this morning (HR 131) to bring up 56 for the week. Might need to do a few more tomorrow if I can't sort out a lift home from Church!

    Jools - nice club session.
    VTr - not too hot over here at the moment.
    GD - sounds like you earned a rest yesterday.
    Lorenzo - all the best. You won't be letting anyone down, whatever.
    8 slow miles this morning (HR 131) to bring up 56 for the week. Might need to do a few more tomorrow if I can't sort out a lift home from Church!

  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Hi all, just dropping in to let you know I'm still here! Had a week away camping it up near Weymouth with the family over half term, and then started a new job back in the world of permanent employment, so the last couple of weeks have been a bit manic. Will have a proper catch up later and try to get back to posting regularly again. Doing a bit, with the New Forest 10 Miles in 3 weeks.

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    I’ve just looked back at old posts to see which race Lorenzo was running today. Unless I’m mistaken he’s running ‘Race the Wall’ which is not a 100k race, that he’s said he’s running. It’s 69 miles which is 111k. I hope he doesn’t get to 62 miles thinking he’s about to finish and discovers he has still 7 miles still to go!

    Does anyone know for sure? 

    I run 10 miles this morning including a 19:30 parkrun. I'm happy with that considering last weeks 100k still in my legs.

     

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    I missed parkrun and drove 8 hours to Cornwall. Hoping to discover the coastal path tomorrow with Junior.

    Nice to hear from you Abbers, and good luck to the racers. 

     

  • Badbark - you're right. It was the "Race the Wall" - I'd originally entered because of the challenge of running a 100K race but only when I did the calculations a few weeks ago did I realise it was 111K!

    Finishing was the main target but sub-14 hours was at the back of my mind and I would have been over the moon with sub-12 although looking at the results from last year I realised that that would have put me in the top 20, so it was a bit of a pipe dream.

    So, how did it go? Firstly it was hard work - about 2/3 was on the road which was undulating rather than hilly, but there were still some bits that it made sense to walk up. The off road part varied between a pretty flat section coming into Newcastle and the Hadrian's Walk footpath around Vindolanda which was definitely NOT flat. Tough going up and equally tough coming down but as you can imagine, the scenery was stunning.

    The event itself, while on the pricey side, was very well organised with the opportunity to have a bag taken to the finish and a couple of others delivered to a pit stops along the route. The pit stops themselves were well stocked with drinks (including bitter shandy at one!), chocolate, sweets and sandwiches although apart from a mouthful of a roll at the first pit stop, I stuck with the plan of eating familiar running stuff and staying well clear of pork pies and scotch eggs.

    I put my strategy of a walk break every hour into action from the start, although it quickly became one every half hour to be on the safe side. I was starting to feel a bit weary about 20 miles in - not good when you've still got nearly 50 to go so the ultra shuffle became an ultra ultra shuffle.

  • Getting to halfway was a relief because I felt that I could sort of start a countdown (35 miles done, 34 to go; 40 miles done, 29 to go etc etc) and I had a good off road stretch through the woods in the bit before the Hexham pit stop at 44 miles.

    It started to get really tough mentally and physically a few miles after leaving Hexham and I probably got overtaken by a couple of dozen people - the 55 and 60 mile markers seemed to take an eternity and when the final pitstop came into view at 61 miles I was very relieved and it was good to know that there were just 8 miles left.

    I was still adopting a run/walk approach as I got to 65 miles when I decided that more of a DBS approach was needed and I would run all the way to the finish; fortunately it was a nice flat run along the banks of the Tyne and then over the Millennium Bridge. The photos will be the evidence but I think I might have managed to finish pretty strongly (under the circumstances) and even smiled for the camera when I crossed the line. Looking at the splits, I made up 15 positions between the final pit stop and the finish line and ended up finishing in 41st place.

    As for the time, I came in in 12:44 - well within the sub-14 target and well clear of sub-13 which was definitely looking in jeopardy for periods of the run.

    In a nutshell - really chuffed! image

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    That’s a fantastic performance Lorenzo. Well done, take a bow Sir! 

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