Sub 3h15



  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    MsE - hope everything/everyone is continuing to recover well. Apart from that, a chance to put the feet up and plot new races and adventures for when you are once again indestructible.

    AndyLid - if you think hearing the name "Lorenzo" a million times is bad, try spending 10 miles just a few yards in front of Mr Potato Head.

    GM - cracking stuff - you bossed it on a tough course in tough conditions, you smashed some rivals, your lad was there for you and other runners; pain is temporary but having a strong run topped by a lovely family moment is permanent. Now sort that injury.

    OO - heck that's a good time.  To do that + a 3:XX mara in a week shows real versatility. Looks like I have already lost the Coastal smackdown.

    Keir - liking your current philosophy of running and it sounds like it agrees with you. Nice to be relaxed etc rather that giving in to the stresses of fast road racing.

    Birch - take a step back, you are running pretty well in truth. 

    Leslie - amazing miles and we know how hard it is to do night shifts and run to any decent level. You have done more miles in 1 month than I did in the whole of Jan - Feb - Mar.  There must be a really fast race in you next time out.

    Lorenzo - go on, 100 isn't that much further than 40...

    Dazza - in answer to your question, the only pace I have hit has been (aiming for) 19:XX at Parkrun a couple of times a month (and not always achieved even that). Other runs have mainly been 3 - 8m at about 8m/m, with shameful walk breaks on anything over 5m.  The strategy this spring has been to do as little as possible, subject to a 100m/month minimum, to have a decent chance of knocking off a sub-3:20 in either Manc or London.  Leaving time/energy for the bike.

    Monthly totals for April: 100.1m run, 353 bike, getting there slowly.
  • DazzaLDazzaL ✭✭✭
    MsE - Eays on the painkillers, you'll be trolling people soon :)

    0054 - Well done on the sub 1:30. What's the Keswick route like?

    GerrardM - Great race report, I love reading race reports but I don't really write race reports very much any more. Hope the injury subsides and there is no lasting impact :(
    We're off to Florida for a few weeks. I need to get one of my half mile Strava crowns back so planning on taking my shoes for a few runs but that's it. I need a rest and I promised the wife :)

  • Great report GM. You are in good company, many here on the thread would do the same as you and push on.

    Massive month Leslie, April was my biggest so far this year but 183.28 miles at an average of 7:51. Still, I am at 672 for the year which is over 666 2/3rds which is where I need to be to clear 2,000 miles for the year.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Great report GM. PMJ is right, we'd all push on when we should really be a little more sensible. We've all done it!  :p

    More than impressive (madness) miles, Leslie. Only 60 for me in April  :o
    That's mainly due to marathon taper, injury management and 2 weeks of nothing post-Boston.

    Back on it today. 4 miles at 7.01 pace. Felt rusty and hard work at times, although that could be also down to having a sore throat and cold symptoms for the past few days.

    Track tomorrow and Thursday and something on Saturday. I have 2 weeks to get quick enough for my debut at the Staines 10k.

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Leslie - checked back in my diaries, and was logging 65-70 mpw, with occasional cutback of 50-55 in the buildup to my pb. During a different campaign I'd logged a week at 80 (102 in 8 days with the prev week's long run added in), but decided no additional gains from the extra, in my case.  Interestingly (or not) :) , I'd forgotten that I only used to taper for 2 weeks back then - so last 3 weeks were 70, 48, 47 (inc the marathon)  . . .
    great week & month miles in your case . . . . 
    MsE - no worries - perfectly fair comment ! In my defence, the 10 miles the day before were at my friend's request, and I didn't want to turn her down.  I hope recovery continues as you would wish in your house  . . . 
    OO - excellent work just a week after VMLM !!  
    Gerard - great report - yes, we (I) do like a detailed account, and well toughed out !!  Headwind and pain not the best combo  . . . . .  
    "pace in the park" for me today - 7 miles in total, with approx. 3.5 miles of efforts, inc 2 x 1 mile.  Nearly taken out by a dog, which hurtled into me chasing a ball thrown straight across my path by the owner. Just managed to keep upright, but that particular 800m effort was cut short !  In fairness, I'm sure the owner hadn't seen me, but conversely, we were in a "keep dogs on a lead" area  . . . .  

  • GM - great report and I was running every mile with you there as I was reading it. Sounds like a very challenging course in difficult conditions so 66:31 is a very decent time. Hope that the injury doesn't keep you out for too long.

    Also, some stunning racing from OO just a week after London. Looking at the elevation on Strava shows how tough the route was so sub-1:30 is darned impressive.

    Have you signed up for Abo yet Dazza?!

    Are the painkillers working MsE - any idea how long you'll be out for?

    Finished April off with 30 miles on the bike on Saturday (the first outing on 2 wheels this year) and a 5.7 mile easy run on Sunday to bring the monthly total up to 178. 13.6 miles of trail running this morning and caught the best weather of the day.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Sounds like a brutal race Gerard and impressive result. Take it easy and hope nothing long term on the injuries. Great report!
  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭

    GM - great report and run - hope the injury isn't serious.

    OO - really good result so soon after London!

    G-Dawg - glad you've seen sense and signed up to Abingdon. Never in doubt though!

    I took advantage of the long weekend with a total of 31 miles over the three days.  A 10, a 9 and a 12 yesterday.  Bit blustery yesterday and at one point the branch of a tree fell on my head which left me with a cut over my eye.  Then I almost got taken out by a deer which ran across the road between two fields, about 6 feet in front of me. So an eventful run :)

    I have a 10 mile race on Sunday - can't actually decide whether to do it as I have no real speed in me at the moment and it's a bit of a drive to get there.  But they are very generous with the prizes - trophies for first three in all age categories, so there is a reasonable chance of taking something home, and I haven't done that for a good while!

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    Leslie - obviously, I get tired muscles when doing high mileage, but after 2 or 3 days without running, I always get strange muscular pains which feel like tight or strained muscles. Congratulations on the 365 mile month!!!
    Birch - sorry you had another tough race - I guess the miles you put in the days before the race didn't help!
    MsE - pleased to hear you're both recovering well.
    GM - hope you're not too badly injured. It's very difficult to do the "sensible" thing in a race and it was an excellent performance on a really tough course.
    Poacher - is your bike mileage still going up? I was thinking of you over the weekend as I was gardening. Virtually every leg muscle was hurting at some point, but nothing a hot bath couldn't sort out fortunately! In comparison, running is a doddle.
    Dazza - enjoy Florida.
    GD - hope the sore throat / cold symptoms disappear rapidly.
    Freemers - glad you survived that run. Go on, you know you want to that race!
    Ribs are feeling less painful and now I'm back at work the legs should get some rest from gardening! I think I managed 211 for April.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Freemers where the hell do you live in a safari park? The only hazard on the North East coast is frost bite...
  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭
    OO - nowhere exotic - Suffolk - but it is very rural and we do get lots of deer around us, and they can pop out from behind the hedges.  The one yesterday jumped over the hedge, one bound in the road and over the next hedge into the field.  I once saw a group of around 20 of them running across the same stretch of road to get from one field to another.  We get a lot of hares as well - now they really are fast!
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Poacher you are ramping the biking up well now, my next race is next sunday, a half mara undecided if it will be all out or not yet ,feeling a bit tired at the minute for pb chasing !
    PMJ nicely on schedule there.
    Gdawg you certainly needed the rest the last few weeks.
    Birch thanks for that I thought you would have been a mileage king with your pb's but consistency is important too,p&d doesn't like to taper much till the last 2 weeks either.
    Some dog owners are just muppets thankfully most have some sense!, I had to hurdle 2 small dogs chasing each other on the track once .
    Lorenzo nice month for you.
    Freemers I wouldn't want to be running near you with your present luck ,take care.
    Gul sounds like things are getting better now.

    Belfast mara was on yesterday a bit too hot to be running at about 18c so glad I didn't sign up , the one  hot day of the year !
    Out walking all day yesterday and 12 mile easy this morn at 8:10 pace 

    102 day running streak ...

  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭
    Top result GM - a very well raced race.  Take care with that injury

    Good to see you going well Leslie - it's an awesome comeback from the many days of non-running.

    I had an injury re-occurrence at the weekend.  Bailed on my 20 miler at 16 miles and got a lift home.  Confined to left lower back, right hip and achilles.  That's what happens if you try to increase the distance too quickly too soon on a comeback.  I make these mistakes so that you don't have to.  
  • AndyLidAndyLid ✭✭✭
    Thanks all for messages; you always feel a bit nervous breaking cover after lurking for so long.

    Plan for London this year was largely to avoid all the mistakes of last year, where I got to the start line and found myself believing my own publicity. “Yes I know everyone says don’t start off too fast, but I’ve done more miles than ever in training for this, so surely I can get close to 3 hours”. So I set off at 3 hour pace around 6:55, got to halfway ahead of the 3 hour pacers, and then watched the wheels fall off at mile 16, finishing off at 8 minute mile pace.

    My basic approach to training has always been that if you do X and it gets you so much, then doing more and faster amounts of X should mean you get better results – if at first you don’t succeed, get a bigger hammer! So this year I started off the training plan for London on 1st December with a hopeful Run Every Day December, which turned into an optimistic REDJ, which became a painful REDF and a frankly obsessional REDM. Anyhow, managed to average nigh on 50 miles a week over 20 weeks without causing too much harm.

    Tapering fortnight turned into the normal mental gymnastics, where I convinced myself that my preferred shoes weren’t right for me, bought another pair, decided that those weren’t helping either and went back to the original pair (but took the new shoes with me to London - just in case!). Also had a complete nightmare of a 5m race 10 days before, where I misread my watch, thought that I was running at 6:45 pace (actually 5:45) and finished up doing the first mile in 5:50, tried to throttle back, but damage had been done and finished up having to stop for a rest at 2.5 miles and completed the race in 35:07, when I’d been hoping for around 32 minutes.

    Plus point of final weeks of training was following a hint that I got from here of on the long runs, try to run the last couple of miles at marathon pace, so on my final 22mile run, averaged around 8:00 for the first 20 miles, than 7:20 for the last two miles.

    This year’s equivalent of Dumbo’s blue feather for me was ‘Hot Shots’, which because of delays in getting them posted over from USA meant I hadn’t had much chance to test on long runs, apart from trying once to at least make sure it wouldn’t upset my stomach. So took two of those with me, one to drink 15 minutes before the race, and one to carry with just in case.

    So come Sunday I’d made a decision to aim for 3:10:00 and to consciously force myself to try and run a more consistent race than previously and aim for 7:10/mile throughout. Was feeling really pleased with myself when I watched the Blue 3 hour pacer disappear into the distance, but then was overtaken around mile 10 by the Red 3 hour pace group which meant I spent then next mile redoing all my mental arithmetic to make sure I’d hadn’t got things wrong again (Red start was late starting?). Generally my mental pacing is fairly lousy and I rely on finding someone ahead of me who looks like they are going at the right pace and then trying to stay with/overhaul them depending on what my watch says. I started following a couple of Newcastle AC runners at about mile 5 and stayed with them until about mile 20, when one of them started to slow down. I think this is about the time when I caught up with Lorenzo and started trying to work out why that name was important (also caught up with a Spiderman, a Superman and a Big Bird!). Managed to catch up with the other Newcastle runner and then we ran together until about mile 25 when I started to cramp up and finished in 3:10:42.

    Overall very happy with it, I managed to keep to around 7:10 for the first 21 miles, and then dropped down to around 7:25 for the final miles, but it was far more consistent than last year. I don’t know whether the Hot Shots worked, certainly I cramped a lot later than usual, but this might also have been from a more consistent pace. I tried to take the second one at around mile 22, but my coordination was so poor by this point that I think I finished up wearing more of it than I drank. But knowing that in my final 22mile training run I'd managed to step it up in the final two miles was a great help mentally.

    Anyhow, this is a bit long - especially for a first post! Apologies.

    Gave myself a week off and now to figure out how much more I have to do in advance of the Comrades in 5 weeks time.
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    Hey gang!

    Jools – Thanks, I’m very lucky my son is a kind soul and totally gets the runner that suffers/endures thing. He said afterwards that some of the runners looked in pain and I said they most likely were and he said they were all very brave. 

    Leslie – Wowzers, stonking stats and that’s some streak.

    Poacher – Nice monthly mix. When is your big bike event?

    DazzaL – Florida sounds fab! Thanks man and maybe you could start writing some reports again, we do like and appreciate them very much around here. J

    PMJ – Nicely on target! Have you got anything lined up in the near future race wise?     

    G-Dawg – Nice to see you back on it! Some fine tuning and you’ll fly at Staines.

    Birch – A close call with the hound there! In other news: my Vet 65 pal ran 21:32 on Saturday. He was chuffed and is now upping the mileage for his 11th Comrades attempt.

    Lorenzo – Nice trail miles and even better you caught the best of the weather.

    Freemers – I say go for it! Nice branch/deer swerve. My Mum’s place is close to a park that has lots of wild deer roaming about the place and they can do some serious damage.

    Gul – Glad to hear the ribs are on the mend.

    Bike it – Sometimes we just have to bail and hopefully you will be able to run pain free again soon and make the start line at Comrades.

    Andy – No apologies necessary. Well done, that’s a very good time! I had a chuckle at your shoe dilemma, sorry but that really tickled me. Will this be your first Comrades?

    I applied the ice and took anti-inflammatory tabs after Sunday’s mess and it seems to have settled things down a bit. It’s a lot less sore today but I have what I would call a half limp. I’ll rest for the week and see what’s what then. I was out west tonight and went for a walk on the cliff paths were we raced on Sunday. It was such a different vibe altogether, exquisite sunset and a whisper of a warm breeze. Photo of one hill where we ran into the wind, cold, sodden and in despair, well I was anyway! :smiley:

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Gul - gardening is probably great XT but take care as it doesn't always use the same muscles as running. Tall people need to watch it when bending down and lifting too.  Back to planting shrubs in clay for me today, bah.

    GM - don't rush back from injury, even for those lovely views.

    Leslie - you are the new Ron Hill, sort of

    Andy - are you aiming for a Bill Rowan? Your times suggest it's very doable

    BI - still think you can make the start line?

    Belated happy birthday to the thread, yesterday was the 11th anniversary of the start of a long rambling conversation by people aiming for sub 3.15 at FLM 2007. I only know this cos I changed age groups yesterday to EOG55. Hoping to mount a few more podiums, or perhaps podia.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Happy Birthday Poacher!

    Happy Birthday to the thread too. I've learnt loads on here which definitely helped me get to sub-3.15.

    Loved reading your tale Andy. I don't know how many full maras you've done but it sounds like you just need to tune your race craft a little just to ensure you feel more in control of time and pace. Also, I'm not sure run streaks in a campaign are ideal. The rest and repair process is vital to final performance. I know this through enforced rest through illness and injury during campaigns. Each little rest forms a new platform upon which to build. We need to let the foundation cement dry to build the house upon it otherwise it can crumble.

    Good luck at Comrades. Keep us up to date on training progress. No more lurking!! :D

    Lovely picture there GM, absolute belter!

    Had to ditch the track last night. Proper croaky sore throat and raised heart rate.  :(
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    Freemers - what sort of deer were they? Get lots of muntjacs in green spaces around the town here, but larger deer in the woods or further out in the countryside.
    Leslie - great streak!
    Bike It - sorry to hear that. Hope you recover quickly.
    Andy - great time and report - don't apologise! All the best for Comrades.
    GM - nice pic and pleased to hear things are settling down okay.
    Poacher - yes, I can tell I don't use those muscles much! Plenty of clay here too. Happy birthday for yesterday. Good month - mine's today.
    GD - get well soon.

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Gerard - your mate puts me in my place - 11th Comrades at V65 - respect !!
    Poacher - Happy EoG55 day
    inspired by Leslie, I followed Monday's "efforts" with a double yesterday - 4 easy at 8am, then 6 easy/steady at noon with my pal. Legs not too bad.  
  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭
    Happy Birthday Poacher.

    Hi AndyLid - as Poacher says BR is possible.  You could stop by the Comrades 2017 thread.  It sounds like VLM was a PB for you and a big effort.  I would focus the next 4.5 weeks on recovery from the marathon effort and maintaining fitness.  Now is not the time for any huge runs - I would go 20-24m max - nor is it time to catch up on speed sessions.  Recover and Maintain. Take time to learn the course and devise a strategy if you are a novice Comrades runner.  Learn to run/walk.

    I've already decided not to run the Comrades. I could start and there is only one outcome which is a major injury by the time I stop or am stopped. 

    I got injured badly following the 2013 Comrades and the 2016 Comrades.  These were both preceded by running Comrades with slight (2013) to significant (2016) injuries.  Both resultant injuries have taken more than a year to heal as well as the chain of healthcare professionals.  The root cause has been basically hips, glutes and hamstrings that are weak and not activating properly.  Coupled with very powerful quads, high mass and the ability to push on when the body is falling apart.  It's a Spitfire engine in a Cessna airframe. It would just be stupid of me to start, DNF and get massively injured and take another year in rehab.

    Instead I will enter the Soweto Marathon (438m course ascent; 1750m elevation) in November and focus on a decent build up.
  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭

    Gul - it was a roe deer, pretty small so maybe a female.  We get a fair amount of muntjac too, although they tend to be around the woods rather than in the fields.

    Happy birthday to Poacher and the thread :)

    Andy - great report and well done on your result.  Sounds like consistency paid off this time.

    Bike it - sounds like a wise decision re comrades, but I guess the Soweto marathon won't exactly be a cake walk!

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Bikeit  I hope you get well again soon and its only minor injuries, comrades does sound like a step too far for now.
    Andylid who would of thought going out at a sensible pace and consistent training actually works ,cracking first post don't be a lurker anymore.
    Gerard on the mend by the sound of it.
    Gdawg I had enough rest after my op to do a few years lol 
    Poacher happy birthday and a new age group to race in.
    Birch that's the spirit !
    7 recovery today ,nice easy 8:37 pace.

  • I went for a run in Vermont today so will pretend to be VTrunner for 24 hours.
  • AndyLidAndyLid ✭✭✭
    Thanks for all your responses – nice friendly place!

    GerardM – it’s not even as if it’s the first time I’ve done that! One week before the Manchester 2015 marathon I pulled up lame, convinced myself it was the shoes fault and bought another pair four days before the race, which I wore for the first time on the day.

    Poacher - Comrades is my first attempt. I’d seen somewhere that about 2.5 X marathon time was a rough guide, so I’m aiming for sub 9 hours?

    G-Dawg – this was my 5th (Chester, Manchester (short), London, Reykjavik, London), and I know that pacing is definitely my weakest area which is why I was so pleased with getting a little bit more consistency this year. With hindsight, you’re definitely correct about avoiding streaks and getting some rest, I doubt I’m going to do that again.

    Freemers/LeslieH – thanks, definitely trying for consistency

    Bike It – thanks. Yes it was a PB (and GFA for next year). Thanks for the advice on the training; I’d already decided to cut down on the intensity and speed sessions and I’ll think seriously about run/walk strategies, though it’s not something I’ve ever tried. Sorry to hear that you aren’t running, but it sounds like the correct decision.
  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that BI and no doubt on the day you will wish you were singing Shosholoza on the start line, but sounds like a sensible decision. Soweto Mara sounds good though, not done the race but an interesting city.

    green number 11th Comrades at 65 - fantastic effort!
  • AndyLidAndyLid ✭✭✭
    OK, that didn't work. How can I post a picture?
  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Andy - something like that but it is a long day and 90k on cambered tarmac is tough on the body. +1 for BIs plan - if you have the miles in you then the work is largely done and focussing on kit, strategy, making sure the travel plans are watertight etc etc is the way to go. A 3.10 marathoner should be going for sub 9 - medal colour is a great motivator.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Save a copy of it to your device, Andy then 'choose files' when selecting the attach image button. B)  
  • AndyLidAndyLid ✭✭✭
    Really sorry to be so dumb, but where's the 'attach image' button? I know some websites don't allow you to post pictures until you've made a set number of posts, but I can't see any options anywhere apart from inserting smilies
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Wishing Poacher a belated Happy Birthday!
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