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  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Every time I come back after a short break, I can't work out where I last read to because it seems BB has just run a marathon. It's very confusing. Coming back with some easy runs based on time on feet.  Building my base again but putting aside all racing plans for the time being. Now to try work out where I was....
  • Knew it was going to rain heavily at lunchtime so set out early but not early enough. Did 6.5 of the 7.5 miles in the dry then the last mile left me soaked through. Still, better than being soak for all of them.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Take it easy MsE ...

    Sadly only an afternoon running window available for me. So 14 miles in wet and windy conditions - a bit like Sunday's Long Run - hopefully this is not a pattern emerging ...

  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    MsE - That's because he has! Nice to hear you're doing a bit.

    SBD  - Welcome back.

    Mainly hill training for me this week in prep for a trail race on Sunday. 
  • GD - How's the chest? Any issues?! Solid 10 miler.
    Birch
    - good conditions for character building ;) And another MLR in the bag.
    MsE - glad to hear you're out again with some easy runs.
    PMJ - still drying your kit in the server room?
    SBD - keep plugging away.
    GM - might be able to do something vaguely like hill training in  a few months time!
    10 miles this morning with 3 sets of 8 x 200m / 200m. Didn't bother taking splits as it was just approximate distances up and down the same straight section of a footpath.


  • GerardM said:

    Mainly hill training for me this week in prep for a trail race on Sunday. 
    Far too late for that. Takes at least 2 weeks for the results of training to become apparent.

    Talking of which, I have entered Wokingham Half marathon on Feb 18th so that gives me two Sundays (Jan 28th and Feb 4th) for preparation runs. So far, I have been doing no specific training but have done
    • Long runs of 13 to 15 miles taking up to and over 2 hours
    • parkruns as speed sessions, about 20 minutes (6:26 pace)
    • "tempo" which is not really such but 7.5 miles at 7:30 pace.
    The desire is to do the half in 1:30 so that is 6:51.9 per mile (say 6:52) so any suggestions? 
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    How about a progression run into the mix, PMJ

    In the last couple of campaigns I've introduced some real lung busters, I think they work.
    I'm the sort of runner who takes a while to get going so cranking up the pressure works well for me. Here's a 5 miler I did a couple of month's ago:

    1) 1m - 6:55(6:55/m) 128/149bpm 103cal 8.68/9.73mph
    2) 1m - 6:43(6:43/m) 148/156bpm 123cal 8.93/9.27mph
    3) 1m - 6:33(6:33/m) 155/163bpm 124cal 9.16/9.52mph
    4) 1m - 6:24(6:24/m) 161/165bpm 125cal 9.38/9.62mph
    5) 1m - 6:14(6:14/m) 166/172bpm 126cal 9.63/10.25mph

    Average was 6.33. I was breathing from the wrong end at the end of all that!! 

    Nice 10 miler there, Gul.

    Good hill training GM. I like hill training but I do find it has it's ups and downs.   ;)

    Track tonight, session looks nasty.  :#
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    Has anyone got knowledge of how threshold runs work with regards marathon training. I have a lot of these within my training plan and I'm wondering if I need to stick rigidly within the my set training paces to achieve the full benefits. 
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    MrSoft said:
    Has anyone got knowledge of how threshold runs work with regards marathon training. I have a lot of these within my training plan and I'm wondering if I need to stick rigidly within the my set training paces to achieve the full benefits. 
    The short answer is: yes.
    The long answer can be found here: https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillans-six-step-training-system/

    It's really important to stick to the nature of the run that is prescribed. Marathon running is aerobic and the threshold runs in training help boost your fitness levels so you can run in your aerobic range at a quicker pace.  But you must put in sufficient time at the right intensity level to achieve this.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    PMJ- How does 6.50 (I think you need that to cover any over distance) pace sit with your current and historic fitness?

    Your training is pretty solid for churning out a half and you aren't going to get a great deal of fitness boost from two sessions. I'd be looking more for race pace practice. I would continue with 15 this weekend but perhaps run miles 8-13 at target race pace (again I am not sure how challenging this would be for you right now) then following weekend try something largely similar, perhaps a little further. You then have the weekend before to reduce it back.

    Plenty of good running going on amongst you all.

    I did 5 miles Tuesday at easy, then had a rest day yesterday as I had physio. Pretty decent session and I have some things to work on. My glutes are apparently completely unresponsive and my QL on the injured side is weak. So have exercises to complete.

    He told me (without me asking- I often feel that I mildly bully physios into telling me I can run!) I should continue with light running and note where things are tight or sore and e-mail him.

    Have already done a meaty threshold bike session today and want to give things a good 24 hours to settle post treatment so will run again tomorrow.

  • DT19 said:

    PMJ- How does 6.50 (I think you need that to cover any over distance) pace sit with your current and historic fitness?

    Your training is pretty solid for churning out a half and you aren't going to get a great deal of fitness boost from two sessions. I'd be looking more for race pace practice. I would continue with 15 this weekend but perhaps run miles 8-13 at target race pace (again I am not sure how challenging this would be for you right now) then following weekend try something largely similar, perhaps a little further. You then have the weekend before to reduce it back.

    That was along the lines of what I was thinking. Historically I am faster than that (so my best half is about 75 minutes or over a minute a mile faster) and I did 1:28 last year so 1:30 isn't unreasonable. I guess a 5 or so at race pace would help (but not 13, that is the full race!) and I have a few routes with nice downhill portions at the end so 8 uphill and then 5 down at HMP at the end.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Track sesh tonight. Did a 2 mile warm up and after the coach saw me coughing and heard me moaning about being unable to shift the last of this bug, he changed my session so he could keep an eye on me. Suddenly I was doing 20 x 400 with 30 sec recoveries, each effort had to be 1.28 or quicker. Thanks, Coach!!  :o

    It was a tough old session but I saw it through. Slowest split was 1.29 and quickest was 1.25. Really pleased to get that done and chest got better as it went on. 2 laps to warm down and 8.3 miles for the night.
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    PMJ - You're absolutely right but what I should have said was, I've been doing similar for about 3 weeks now but most of my runs this week are hilly, so I'm just topping up. The race is a mix of beach/cliff path/trail. Legs should be toughened up by now what with a bit of XC running in the legs as well. I'll be taking it easy the next two days. Re your question about specific HM training sessions. Similar to G-Dawg my go to is about 8k at race pace but even splits all the way. 3 miles w/up with @ progressive pace say 8/7:30/7:15 just to ease the legs and mind into it with a mile or so cool down. If you can run 6:4x's and it feels like a good effort but not too hard, then you should be good to go. HMP in training is always a funny one for me, as it's not that quick, but it must feel right. Once I'm into my running (i.e. hit that pace) I tend to gauge mine on effort and look at the splits afterwards. I think with your longer runs done and the sub 20 speed there, sub 90 is a very achievable target. I'd say a good bit quicker if the course and conditions are favourable.  
  • PMJ - sounds like you've got your session sorted.
    GD
    - that's a good session especially off 30 second recoveries.
    DT19 - at least that sounds like something which can be sorted with the proper exercises and you're okay to continue with easy running for now.
    Another 9 slow miles this morning (9:00m/m).

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018

    I'm still rather hesitant to be honest! However I will go again over lunchtime.

    I noted last night leaving work largely in daylight. Wont be long before it's light enough when I'm home to get a run in.

    I saw the otherday that this years National XC entries are one of the highest ever and only 3rd time this century they have exceeded 3000.

    PMJ- Yes save the 13 at hmp for Wokingham!!

    Gul- I do like those midweek very easy aerobic runs. It is arguably the run I am currently missing the most!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Any, 5.5 miles over lunch. Most comfortable I have felt since early/mid December. Not perfect but nothing more than a niggle that I wouldn't normal trouble myself over if I wasn't injured. Fingers crossed for no reaction over night.
  • DT19 - sounds promising. Hope all is well today.
    18 miles this morning (avg. 8:06 m/m). Noticed that my watch battery was low, so turned round at 9 miles for an out and back. Just as well as the GPS went at 11.69.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    great (very) early miles, Gul 

    12 this morning here - on 40 for the week, with a day left.  Happy enough to be adhering to my "comeback" plan of @ 40 + , with 40,50,50,4x this month.
    Yesterday marked 32 years of recorded running (first entry 27/01/86), the 6.5 meant 62,248 miles, so an average of 1,945 per annum over the 32 years. Consistent consistency, if nothing else :/ 
     
    off to Harewood House in a bit - spectating (and providing lifts) at the Northern XC Champs)
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Good luck with the race on Sunday GM - how far is it?

    You seem to be churning out the miles Gul - what's the weekly mileage looking like at the moment and what are your race plans?

    That's a lot of miles Birch and good to hear the comeback is going to plan.

    Hope the niggles are safely at bay DT19.

    Need to book a half-marathon for the 11 February.  Barcelona sounds attractive but it might have to be Worthing - anyone run at Worthing?

  • Really solid totals there Birch. 32 years is a massive log of running, wish I had the patience to log mine but the only records I have are since I got a Garmin so a mere 15,004.30 miles (so I passed 15,000 this morning and didn't even notice).  Close to 2,000 a year over 32 years is massive, have a beer or two and celebrate! Good luck to your crew at the XC champs.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    no apparent backlash this morning from yesterday's run. Spin and bodypump today. I'll try a longer run tomorrow. 

    Birch, that's some impressive record keeping and lifelong running.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Wow Birch! Great logging, very impressive.

    Good signs there DT.

    Long run with 3 pals this morning. Great fun in the mud and swamps. Recent rain had really made it hard going at times. 17.5 miles and two and a half hours on our feet with a splash through a waist high ford used by a local farmer for getting his animals through at the end much to the amusement of the local walkers. Bloomin' cold it was!  :D

    46 for the week, beer time!
  • Hey all, stayed off here for a bit while I was on enforced no-running duty; first attempt back after almost 2 weeks; a 20 min 5k with a mile either side. Achilles is still giving me a bit of jip but will see in the morning if it's seized up again - really looking forward to getting back into it if not - need to get up to the impressive miles some of you are logging!
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    SBD - The trail race was a tad over 10k, 6.4 miles. A friend of mine who founded the Jersey parkrun has started a series of local trail races. Today's was race 1 of 3. I only entered the first one. It's mainly to attract more runners who are either new to running and it's something different. There's a gap in the market and he's seized the opportunity, as the series sold out in no time at all. It's maxed out at around 55 entrants as some of the land we run on is protected etc and he needed to apply for permission. 

    So, trail race for me this morning. Race start was at 8am and I got there early and did about 2k as a warm up. Conditions were ok, a light wind and a bit drizzly but it rained quite a bit overnight, which meant it would be tricky on some parts of the course. The start was on the beach and it was either one lap or two laps. I opted for the 2 laps as I thought there was no sense in getting up early to run a trail 5k. Anyhow we started on the beach and it was about 500m before we reached the rocks and that was interesting, very wet underfoot and climbing up to a steep set up cliff path steps. Ran up the 1st set of steps and walked at the next set as it was too steep for me to run them. Was in 3rd place with 1 and 2 just ahead. No.1 I know and he's much quicker than me, so I thought I might end up in a battle for 2nd. No.2 seemed to completely die at the top of the 1st climb and was reduced to a slow walk. I passed him and made my way around the cliff path which has some up and downs and was seriously muddy in places. I was glad I wore my trail shoes. I kept No.1 in my sights but he was about 40 seconds or so ahead of me as we made our way back around through the woods and back down steps and along the beach again. On the 2nd lap out he started to pull away further and I knew that the steps the second time around would hurt, so saved a bit for the less steep sections. Walked most of the steps and tried to run as hard as possible on the downhills but he was too far ahead to catch. No sight of anyone else and no idea what happened to the guy I passed who was in 2nd place. I took a wrong turn coming through the wooded area on the 2nd lap which cost me about 20 seconds but luckily there was no one near me. I belted it down the steps and back along the beach and could see the guy who was 1st had just finished. 2nd place for me but to be honest there weren't that many fast guys so I was lucky to get 2nd.  I think the gap between me and 1st was about a minute which is ok as I know he is about a 36 min 10k runner. It was well organised and the sun came out at the end and we all were given cake and coffee. Lots of runners said it was brutal but a lot of fun. I guess that sums of trail running really, a nice vibe and some different faces for a change. Average pace was about 7:30 which is ok seen as I did quite a bit of walking in the 2nd lap. It was a good morning and I really enjoyed that. 
  • Impressive mud running there G-Dawg. I bet you enjoyed the beer.

    Fab stuff Birch - as you say, consistency is the key word but to manage it over such a long period of time is truly consistently consistent.

    DT19 - good news. Hope today's run went OK. Also hope you're OK this morning Nicko.

    Good to see you back on here SBD - I can't comment on the Worthing Half, but I'd imagine that I weekend in Barcelona is a tad more fun!

    Super mileage (coupled with some crazily early starts) Gul - I'm sure I keep asking, but what's your racing schedule over the next few months?

    P&D schedule had a recovery week so I had every intention to make it a bit easier on the mileage and mix things up a bit, so managed:

    Mon: 7.5 miles of easy commuting runs
    Tues: easy run with 8 x c. 100m strides, half of which were on the uphill parts and half on a gentle downhill
    Weds: 12.5 miles of easy commuting runs
    Thurs: rest
    Fri: 9.5 in total with a 2.5 mile stretch of sub 7 min mile effort.

    All set for an easy-ish weekend but I then got coerced / encouraged to take someone's place at the Southern XC Champs down in Brighton. I'd never competed in this before and as I was down there anyway because younger Lorenzito was running it sounded like a good opportunity to join the team and have a decent tough run out.

    The course itself was 15K (the longest XC race I've done by some margin!), hilly and, as it was at the end of the event and it started to rain during the penultimate race, increasingly muddy with 700 or so heavy blokes trampling round the 3 lap course.

    Although I got a mild stitch after about 500m and the first lap seemed interminably long, things picked up by the second lap and by the third I was thoroughly enjoying myself and made up quite a few places including a frantic sprint battle down the hill and into the finishing straight.

    So, all in all a good outing and I managed to stay on my feet which is more than younger Lorenzito managed as he took managed a face plant after a bit of jockeying for position in the opening stretch. :o

    45 miles for the week in total
  • First effort today at some half marathon pace stuff ready for Wokingham Half. Plan was 4 warm up, then [email protected] and cool down afterwards. The route I selected was uphill for the warm-up and then downhill for the HMP section so the basic idea was to use the downhill to make HMP a bit easier so I could do a bigger chunk of it. All worked out reasonably well other than I underestimated how steep the downhill part was in some sections. All started out fine with the first 3 miles a net drop of about 9 metres each which just about countered the headwind, but the next 2 miles had 50 metres drop each (1 in 20 fall) and I was faster than 6:30 pace. Last mile back to a more gentle slope. Always have a giggle on Pishill Bank. 
  • Looking at shoes online and noticed this on a pair of ASICS ASICS GEL NIMBUS 19 at £115 a pair:

    Designed for men running on the road, 3 to 6 times weekly between 10 and 12km/hr.

    12 km/hr is 8:03 per mile. Obviously, the retailers have no clue at all. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    pmj- That is a rather odd and pointless piece of information provided by Asics there. 

    Gerard, well done on the 2nd place. 

    Well done on xc, Lorenzo. The counties champs always seem to add a few km on to usual xc. 

    Nicko, I'm not sure I'd make my first run back a 5k tempo. Your Achilles will need to ease back in slowly with some recovery running just to get some blood flow to finalise the repair work. 
    I am off out in a bit, hoping to log something a little further that 5.5 miles. 
  • @DT19 - I know; it was a bit stupid; but it's done now.  Managed to get out for a slow 9 today so not too much damage done and didn't push the pace.  4 weeks till Brighton half so hoping I'll be OK to put in a respectable peformance there, if not at the planned pace.

    Well done everyone on an impressive sounding week.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Go easy there Nicko.

    Good going at the XC Champs Lorenzo - 15k sounds tough!

    I'm on P&D as well but one week ahead of you as I'm hoping to run at Brighton.  So no cut-back week for me and a 21m LR on the schedule.

    Thought I'd try the weight test - so 79.5kg before setting off and 77.0kg on returning after consuming a total of 500ml during and after the run of water.  Might need to watch the fluid loss as it gets a bit warmer!

    Managed to get round at an average 7:44m/m, with the last 5 at 7:23m/m.  Glad to have ticket that one off.

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