Sub 3h15

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  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    MsE - thanks; on the flipside, I can (should) learn from your adherence to the "supplementary" stuff, particularly as a VoGit. My legs are often "wooden" and take a while to feel loose (often they never do within a run), so I would definitely, I think, benefit from incorporating strides and drills into my routine.  With reference to your "comeback", I'd echo Philip  - - -
    "My feeling is that you'd be best off letting things happen in their own good time "  . . .  
    advice I was given years back when I encountered my first layoff of any note (advice I recently gave my daughter, after her great year last year was followed by injury, from which she is just returning)  - -    i.e.-  don't try to force your way back to fitness and form - rather let them return to you - and they will  . .     and belated Happy Birthday greetings to you :)    
     
    Poacher - yes, plenty of flurries during the run earlier, and the lawn outside my place has a white dusting  . . .   
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    MsE, points 1 and 2 are absolutely bang on. I experienced all of that last year when I was stupid enough to do a parkrun at the end if a 15 miler as well as overload on a hill reps session. Was lucky to rescue the campaign.
    Have worked a lot on glutes in Jan and not overcooked the hill reps, just used them to build strength. 
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    MsE, looking good on the comeback. Do you have plans for this year or is it take it how it goes and see? My feeling is that you'd be best off letting things happen in their own good time up until the summer and if you feel the need then pick something in the autumn rather than have any spring targets.
    I appreciate the input. I think this is where I am currently at.  I am taking each day as it comes, loosely following a base plan but listening to my body and what it needs.  If I feel up to it, I may hop into the Surrey half for the fun of it. Race Jase said it's easy to avoid racing if you aren't at peak and create a mental block, so I should consider it for a casual run with company and a number pinned on.  I think he is right.  I have also got a place at Reading the following weekend as a back up but think I will DNS that as it is MsEtte1's birthday that day.  I entered the Richmond HM too as a possible fast half in May (if I can get the training in, uninterrupted this time).  But I think I will focus on getting consistent weeks in with a view to an autumn marathon.
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Birch said:
    MsE - thanks; on the flipside, I can (should) learn from your adherence to the "supplementary" stuff, particularly as a VoGit. My legs are often "wooden" and take a while to feel loose (often they never do within a run), so I would definitely, I think, benefit from incorporating strides and drills into my routine.  With reference to your "comeback", I'd echo Philip  - - -
    "My feeling is that you'd be best off letting things happen in their own good time "  . . .  
    advice I was given years back when I encountered my first layoff of any note (advice I recently gave my daughter, after her great year last year was followed by injury, from which she is just returning)  - -    i.e.-  don't try to force your way back to fitness and form - rather let them return to you - and they will  . .     and belated Happy Birthday greetings to you :)    
     
    . . .   
    Again, I really appreciate the input.  I know I am such a bossy boots on here that I probably give the impression I don't take instruction well.  On the contrary, I find the longer I do this, the more I realise there is to learn.  Other perspectives are invaluable at helping you see what you cannot.  Having a bit of mentoring from Race Jase has been really helpful in this regard. I haven't felt half as demoralised as I normally would since this last blip, and I am sure it is because I have some good support.
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    G-Dawg said:
    MsE, points 1 and 2 are absolutely bang on. I experienced all of that last year when I was stupid enough to do a parkrun at the end if a 15 miler as well as overload on a hill reps session. Was lucky to rescue the campaign.
    Have worked a lot on glutes in Jan and not overcooked the hill reps, just used them to build strength. 
    I remember that moment...  Hope you get well soon and back on track (but don't rush it!)
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    I'm sure your path back to running fitness will be wise and successful MSE. Seeing all the stuff you do on Strava is an eye opener.

    Poacher last time I was there the Old Keswickian was closed for a refub. Not sure which food option we'll go for. My pal is planning Alnwick XC on the Saturday so it may be a late arrival. Couple of beers & some chips sounds good ;)

    Foot still a bit sore. A 10 and a 6 miler today probably won't help but I'll be resting tomorrow. Trip down memory lane this evening running round the Vondel Park in Amsterdam- back in 2000 did this most days of the week.     

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Go easy on the foot OO.

    Always difficult to get the balance right when you come back from Injury MsE - just stay off the bench!

    No snow here but pretty windy.  Managed to get out in the daylight for the 14 mile MLR - got a bit overexcited at the end and put in a few sub 7:15 miles (fast for me!).

    31 days of running in January and 313 miles in total - hopefully the miles will translate to some increased speed soon! 

  • DadAgain - good start to the year. That run/bike commute sounds far from ideal! They can be a logistical nightmare. I seriously hope you have showers at work ;) But an excellent day's work!
    Birch - excellent month; you should be very pleased with that.
    Poacher - no snow here in the flatlands.
    MsE - I'm sure that learning to listen to your body is key. I probably could do with a focus rather than trying to hit an ever-moving target. The basic issue is that I live in an area with very few races and I'm usually too busy to travel further afield. I might just give up on official races and go for some more unofficial PBs!
    PMJ - don't forget Ogden's law: "The sooner you fall behind the more time you have to catch up". (Not sure if that is deliberately ambiguously phrased!)
    OO - hope the rest does your foot some good.
    SBD - wow, that's some cracking miles for January. You will reap the reward for sure.
    9 miles this morning, with 3 sets of 4 x 300m off 100m recoveries. Hoping to sharpen up for a possible parkrun this weekend.

  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    I'm following a plan that schedules me to run a half marathon on 4th March but the nearest one to me is 2 hrs drive away, so I'm thinking about doing another local half the week before instead.  Should I swap the weeks training around to accommodate this as the scheduled half week has 2 easy sessions before my half

    Thanks
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    MrSoft, I see most training plans as a guide rather than a rigid plan. That way I can fit life/work stuff around run sessions. I can't see an issue around swapping the race for an LSR or the complete weeks around. If your goal is an April marathon, it won't make any difference. Just manage the load going into the race so you don't have fatigue.

    I usually do a 10 miler on Tuesdays but it had to get swapped to tonight due to work stuff getting in the way. It means I won't get a track session in but I did an 8 mile tempo on Tuesday as the speedwork for the week along with a 5 miler last night where I stuck to 7.0x pace and averaged 7.04.
  • MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    G-Dawg said:
    MrSoft, I see most training plans as a guide rather than a rigid plan. That way I can fit life/work stuff around run sessions. I can't see an issue around swapping the race for an LSR or the complete weeks around. If your goal is an April marathon, it won't make any difference. Just manage the load going into the race so you don't have fatigue.

    I usually do a 10 miler on Tuesdays but it had to get swapped to tonight due to work stuff getting in the way. It means I won't get a track session in but I did an 8 mile tempo on Tuesday as the speedwork for the week along with a 5 miler last night where I stuck to 7.0x pace and averaged 7.04.
    Thank you for the reply. I'm quite new to marathons(1 previously), so I'm still learning about training for one.  I can sort of understand why you have specific types of runs in a plan,  I'm just unsure about the benefits/drawbacks of doing them in a particular order, except for the 10% increase in long runs on a week to week basis.  I'm assuming the need to do a half marathon in my plan is to use it as a pace guide for the marathon itself, rather than any particular training gain. 


  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Running Gas- sorry to hear about your flu. I'm always shocked when people talk about 'days in bed'. Fortunately I never get anything that bad.

    DT19-that in indeed a low Jan mileage. What are your realistic goals foe London?

    G- Dawg- I'm a big fan of starting steady and picking off those who go off far too quick. Hope you feel better soon.

    Gerard M- many Congrats on your Birthday- big one next year :)

    Gul 200 miles for Jan, Birch 205, and Dad Again 219 (converted). That puts me top of the leader board with 229. At least until Madbark comes in with 300+!

    MSE- many Congrats on your Birthday- I though you were younger ;)

    Mr Soft. I've never grasped the sequence of runs on a plan either- so I don't think its because you are new to marathons. Having said that I don't closely follow any plan.

    Foot at least in no worse. Will try to sneak in 6-8 tomorrow.      

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    oo54, i think you have missed SBD and his 313 miles!!! My highest ever is 192. 

    8 miles again Tuesday and 6 today. Building the mileage this week. At some point I'll have to run fast!

    I suspect that given my mileage in February 2017 was also poor over Jan-March this year (assuming no further isdues) I'll log more miles than same period last year. I'm going to London either way as a full family weekend is booked. If sub 3 or a pb isn't on I can still get some sense of achievement in getting round at a slightly reduced level and renewing my gfa.  

    Looks like, on reading back, everyone is getting into full swing. I'm hoping to run next few consecutive days and post a 40 mile week. 
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    10 cheeky Tuesday miles on. Thursday tonight. Felt tired in the first mile but after coughing my guts up I felt better. Ran with two pals and I took up the pace. Tried to keep it steady around 7.20 and we ended up averaging 7.15 pace.

    Once this lurgy goes I should be in full flight. 185 January miles is my second biggest and with 20 mile LSRs kicking in during Feb, another good month should see a healthy total. Lessons will be learned as previous stats show a volume dip in Feb due to idiot injuries. I'm ready to behave myself this time.

    Today I discovered Echinacea. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    G-dawg, you've been carrying this lurgy since I joined here. is it worth a gp trip?

    I take Echinacea twice daily on a maintenance basis. I stopped taking it late October as I was advised you need a month off it every so often. having not had a cold all year I had 2 in 6 weeks. Back on it since mid December and not a sniffle. 
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    No colds on here please!

    That sounds pretty sharp GD - what time are you targeting for the PR?

    DT19 - 192 sounds low.  What is your marathon PB and have you ever thought about trying higher mileage?

    I find the higher mileage works for me but susceptibility to calf injuries is the major stumbling block.

    Wasn't expecting to get so far on this campaign but felt the need to give it a go!

    10k recovery on the treadmill - all nice and easy.  Just need to get my mind around the 10K tempo scheduled for tomorrow!

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    SBD, my pb from London 17 is 3.04. 

    For me, with two young children, a professional job that requires extra curricular time and the fact that I really enjoy spin classes twice a week means hitting 50 miles a week is a challenge. My highest ever week was 57 miles. 

    I work on the basis that less ambitious output leads to consistent consistency which is where gains are made. I've not missed a training session in 3.5 years until 4 weeks ago, due to injury and I put that down to a measured approach. yes I could smash it harder and do 6 months but then  lose all the gains by benching myself for a month. 

    I ran 3.08 in London 16 off an average in the jan-March period of about 27 miles a week. I'm therefore not convinced that running myself to the ground is the path to sub 3 glory. 
  • MrSoft - yes, sometimes you have to change the schedule for various reasons. With a little careful planning it shouldn't be a problem.
    GD - good example and nice pace for your 5 miler. Another cracking 10 miler too.
    OO - you missed SBD's 313 miles!!!
    DT19 - you didn't miss them. Hope the come-back goes from strength to strength. Save the fast miles for a bit.
    SBD - I think Badbark swears by a weekly hill sprint session to avoid injury. Enjoy the tempo run!
    8 slow miles this morning.


  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018

    Thanks for all the HB wishes guys. MsE - You know you're a runner when you look forward to reaching the next age category to see if your WAVA rises, that's me looking forward to V45 next year. :) Judging by your photos you look 10 years younger than your age!

    Up early this morning running around some rugby fields with my spikes on in the pitch dark. Luckily I remembered to bring a torch. Lovely run so it was.

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Gerard happy belated Birthday , looks like you are flying up that hill in the pic 
    MSE happy belated birthday too ,good luck with the continued comeback.
    0054 take it easy with that foot.
    SBD you are flying hold it together a bit longer ,over 300/month is proper mileage
    DT19 The cycling will be helping too and its working with 3:08 off 27 mile a week.
    Gul lets see what the parkrace brings for you !

    Jan stats 6 miles !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Disappointing I know lol

    Went out a run with the club last night ,7 miles in total ,supposed to be  5k tempo in there but I just tagged on the back of the group and took it easy at around 9m/mile. 7 miles is a bloomin long way these days it seems ...



  • @MsE - thanks for the advice. Yes, physio said my right side glute is a lot weaker than the left for some reason; so we are doing some work to strengthen up there along with some other excercises to strengthen the chain.

    I think the cause is going in too hard without a proper base - I'd been doing some stuff in Nov/Dec and ran a half at the beginning of November, but I think yes I went too hard too quick at some point.

    Did about 4 miles easy last night which was ok, the first mile not so fun but after loosening up it was alright. Will be taking it as easy as possible and reconsider over the  next week or so whether I'm going to make it for London this year  (hoping if not that I can defer my place despite the slightly offbeat way I got it).

    Will be using some drills; hill sessions do you recommend this - my physio advised to avoid hills as much as possible (bit difficult in Bristol for longer distance!) 

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    @MrSoft - Re swapping weeks/scheduled races in the plan, I would just check the way the week is set out.  A race may be in a slightly lower volume week to allow a mini-taper.  After all, racing is a hard effort for the body.  On the same note, it also needs proper recovery afterwards that may not be reflected in a week that simply ends with a LR.  Also, if you consider your training plan in three ways: a macrocycle (the annual or other plan that focuses you towards the main goal, e.g. 4 years to the Olympics or 3-4 months to a marathon), mesocycle (the phases within a macrocycle that separate out the base phase from the quality phases such as lactate threshold building within the macrocycle) and microcycle (typically each week), then you can adjust as appropriate.  

    @OO54 - Good to hear the foot is no worse.  You aren't wearing knackered shoes are you?

    @G-Dawg - Good to see you listening to the inner voice of reason and learning from past experience.  Vitamin C and B12 are also useful when fighting lurgies.

    @DT19 - I couldn't agree more about consistent consistency!  Good luck with your sub-3 goal.

    @SBD - Good luck with the 10K tempo.  Good to see your campaign going well.

    @Gul Darr - 8 miles, slow or fast, is a decent daily effort.  Good stuff.

    @GerardM - oooh you made me blush!  I am now in the next age category from Paula so have a better chance to claw back those AG places.  Well done on the early miles in the dark.

    @Leslie H - Step by step you will build yourself back up.  The trick is to leave the old fitter head behind and adapt to the body you are dealing with today.  Great to read you are back out again!

    @nicko1981 - I suspect the hill advice comes from the fact it encourages running on toes/forefoot which can overwork calf muscles.  If these are not (a) up to the job or (b) stretched regularly then they can adversely impact on the injured achilles making it worse.  The advice to avoid speedwork is for the same reason.  Speedwork has you running a lot more on your forefoot.  Perhaps the best way to judge it is to see how you feel the day after the run.  You are going to be your own best judge.  As they say in the US, "Own it, sister!" (or rather bro)  :)

    More easy miles this week all around 7:30-8:00/mi.  Trying to boost my fitness by taking the hilliest local routes I can find.  Should be around 50-55 by the end of the weekend with a combination of urban and rural loops to regain proprioception.  Hosted a #runandtalk run yesterday with my England Athletics Mental Health Ambassador's Hat on to coincide with Time To Talk day to get the nation out running and talking to improve mental and physical health.  I am on a mission!
  • Hi all.

    I have a few questions and thought I'd post them in here rather than starting a thread of my own and cluttering the place up.

    I've been running about 6 months now without much structure. I usually run 3 - 4 times a week and the "aim" is always 100 miles a month. My runs generally range from 5 miles (about 6:40 ish pace) to longer 15 runs when I can happily run at about 7:20 pace.

    Current times roughly.

    5k - about 19.5 mins on a good day
    10k - 41 ish
    Half marathon - I think I have a sub 1:30 in me, we'll find out at the Cambridge half in a few weeks
    Marathon - ran one about 6 weeks ago at 3:33 without proper prep just around the city

    Over the last few months I haven't really got any faster and am running London this year (my 3rd marathon) and would like to do it justice.

    I would like to add a bit more structure to my training as I think it will help me see the improvement in times I've been lacking recently.

    Everything I read seems very confusing. Can anyone offer me any advice or where to start with a training plan with 11 weeks to go until the big day.

    Thanks, Eddie
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Happy belated birthday, Gerard. Being a runner made turning 40 much more acceptable! However it's a mixed bag here as I live in Worcestershire where v cat starts at 40, however in Warwickshire, where all the good races are its 35. 

    Nicko- Up and down the Portway?

    Leslie H,  hope February works better.

    MSE, what's a run and talk run exactly? (I probably have some idea from the name!)

    Spamalot, there's various different approaches people here seem to go by. For me, all of your running is at the pace that I would categorise a session, and I'm 30 seconds a mile faster than you over 5k-half. Also running a marathon in training at not too far off mara pace is going to do you no favours. 

    You need to spend more time working the aerobic system as it's the biggest contributor to all those distances and you aren't developing it properly. Other than two sessions a week, i will rarely run faster than 8mm. your 5 miles seem to be at 10k pace so you are also missing that threshold sweet spot. 

    Talking of which,by miles again this morning at 7.52mm. The faster and if what I will run a general aerobic run. Followed that with a spin class this afternoon. Firdt consecutive running days in a month. 
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Sounds like you have the right approach DT19 - success at the marathon usually comes to those that can avoid injury! 

    Spamalot - the Runners World training schedule https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/training/rws-basic-marathon-schedules-intermediate - gives you some ideas on how you might structure a marathon campaign.  This is based on running 5 days per week rather than 3/4 but if you're trying to get your marathon time below 3:15 you might be better to follow this type of structured plan.  As per DT19's advice, note the training speeds.

    You're making rapid progress there MsE.

    Still plenty of time to make a decision on London Nicko.

    Plenty of opportunity to build your miles in February Leslie.

    GerardM - pre-dawn is definitely too early!

    Gul - slow is good.

    10K track tempo this afternoon with 3K as w/u and w/d.  Pretty windy so the speed was variable (headwind on one straight and tailwind on the opposite side).  A bit of a struggle at times with the pace softening in the middle but the time of 41:35 was not too slow and more importantly the HR was in the right zone (165-170).

    Hopefully, I can translate that to a 1:30 time at Worthing HM next weekend.

  • @DT19 - yeah there are some decent flat routes, just personally hate the Portway for some reason; but guess I need to take what I can get!

    Really appreciate everyone's advice here. Bit of treadmill last night; felt like not too much strain so put in some 800s; although it feels kind of OK this morning I think leave it till Monday for a LSR and just a bit of biking and a ski on Sunday.

    Have a good weekend everyone.
  • Parkrun for me today. Again foul weather with driving rain and a horrible cold strong wind and parts of the trail section on the course are all dug up with barriers everywhere. It's an injury waiting to happen. Anyhoo, I somehow managed a 14 second pb. 19:00 for 3rd place. Agonisingly close to sub 19 on that course which I was beginning to think wouldn't happen but it gives me confidence to smash it now. Have a great weekend folks. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Nicko- I thought you were avoiding speed work???? There's a lot to be gained in running easy, injured or not.

    well done on pb Gerard. Sounds like on a fast course you'd be about 18.30?

    7 miles planned shortly to set myself up for a 12 tomorrow and a 40 mile week, fingers crossed. Finally dragged by body almost to racing weight. was 11,3 today so high end racing weight. Aim for about 11 dead.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Brilliant, Gerard, on a dodgy course - do you have a 100% tarmac course locally ?   
     
    Backed up the midweek 15.5 with a couple of 4's on Thu, Fri, then 12 this morning with my friend, and my daughter, who is now relocated back here, so was good to have her join us.  MsE - I incorporated a few strides and "accelerations" into one of my 4 milers, to try and trigger a bit of zip in the VoGit legs  . . .    
  • @DT19 - I didn't go too hard - promise!

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