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Sub 3h15
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I've never converted that well from HM to marathon.
My half PB is 1:15:58, official marathon PB is 2:46:27 (pre chip timing - may just have sneaked under, on my watch at ADTLM, as took circa 30 secs to cross line), but 2:46 it is ; so, 2 x half + 14 mins based on PB's. Should really have done better at the marathon off that half-m time.
However, most of the sub 3's (16 in total), came out at 2 x half +10/12 mins. Ran a few 1:18 - 1:20, and a few 2:48 - 2:50, later, a 1:24 had me pretty confident I could sneak under the 3:00 . .
as for pacing, I agree with most views (and Poacher's stats), that the majority of runners of our standard will positive split, but not massively (as we all train optimally, of course)
my PB was a 1:21:30 / 1:24:30 (taken on my own stopwatch), but most evenly paced was London 2010, where my 3:17:46 split into 1:38:45 / 1:39:01, just 16 secs difference.
The 10K splits (to 40K) were 47:01, 46:44, 47:11, 46:45
The most recent, 2015, was a poor conversion from a 1:29:32 half, to a 3:18:42 marathon , and I also experienced a fade here, going through halfway in 1:37:30 (I was trying for the V60 club record of 3:16) , but second half was 1:41:12 . . . . (maybe the effect of now being a VoGit)
all seems a long time ago now . . .
I run every 5 km and most races up to 1/2 M as negative split, but have never achieved it in a marathon. I’m 1/2m +15-25 mins as a conversion- not at all impressive
BB - spot on, I have heard people talk about cruising to 20/22m then hitting the afterburner but it's pretty much a myth.
I have also seen someone physically collapse within 30 metres of the finish so anything can happen in such a cruel sport.
OO - as you have always said, you are a shorter distance person, but you convert up well
Birch - the 1.15 HM is excellent but you are right, 2.46 is not a great conversion so maybe you are also physically and mentally optimised for the shorter stuff.
I would always have said the only interest was ultra/mara but annoyingly my best WAVA% is for 5k about which I couldn't give a stuff. It's quite common in cricket for a player to start as a batter and find their real skill is in bowling, or vice versa - maybe there's a way for runners to find out early doors which distance they are going to be best at.
As for sub3, it's not the most important thing in the world, and it doesn't define who you are, but with hindsight it's a nice thing to have ticked off. If you have the chance, do it while you can as fitness is so fleeting. But what would I know, I will probably come home from Chester in an ambulance.
it's definitely a box I want to walk away having ticked. The other big times ie sub 80 half and sub 60 10 miler seem a little too far out of reach so sub 3 is the last big threshold I may cross.
Birch - some impressive times there. My first conversion was (4xHM)+12, if I remember correctly! And mostly around (2xHM)+30 since. My 3:13:57 "marathon" in training was a 2 min negative split, but I wouldn't recommend planning it that way!
Seeing as I'm doing a proper taper for GER and ignoring P&D for the moment, I decided to do one of my favourite sessions this morning - 400m tempo intervals off 200m recoveries. 8 miles with 17 reps, avg pace overall was 7:30/m.
My main worry is weight gain having just consumed a 5 course breakfast...
Woke up in the night worried I didn't have all the ESTA forms sorted to get into the US. Finally managed to retrieve them online and get them printed.
Then I didn't have my Packet Pick-up email for the Expo. Found it in my email bin after accidentally deleting it.
Then I had to call the insurance company to ensure my house insurance also had adequate travel insurance as part of the policy. It does. Interestingly, when I asked if I was covered for running in an organised marathon they said I wouldn't be covered if money collection was part of the running purpose, e.g. charity. That's seen as a business purpose and requires specific cover.
Weather in Chicago is all over the place. It seems to change every hour (and yes, I'm checking every hour!). Currently it's 17 degrees with thundery showers. That temp will be OK as long as there's some rain to go with it.
Anyway, everything is sorted. Will have a beer on the plane to calm me down and just enjoy a few days away in a great looking city and not get too precious about the time I post. Weather and both Achilles permitting, I'll meet the thread title standard and enjoy a flat course.
Final run tonight, 4 miles easy with a few strides in the middle.
There's not enough chat about carb loading going on here what with 3 people on marathon duty on Sunday!! I'm assuming oo's breakfast was just gluttony as opposed a directed carb load effort ;-).
I'll be off for my last double digit run over lunch of 10-11 miles.
My carb loading arrangements are going to be complicated on Thursday but for good reason. I had a call yesterday to say I had won a competition for my son to be one of 10 mascots for the Welsh football team next Thursday evening in their game versus Spain. We have to be there for 4.30 for briefing, meal etc and he gets a nice new footy kit as well and free match tickets of course and not being local means we both get half day off school/work. Exciting but it is going to complicate my loading and also result in a much later night than is ideal that close.
DT, that's brilliant news on the mascot duty for the lad, fantastic!
Just eat everything in sight and neck a couple of beers, won't do any harm.
I've just demolished a chicken doner kebab wrap. It was actually healthier than it sounds with loads of salad inside and tasted great! I cut down on sweets and chocolate in marathon week but everything else is pretty much fair game apart from fatty pastries and fried stuff etc.
On Saturday night I will just have pizza and diet coke, my traditional pre-race meal.
I'm walking to the start which is bang on 2 miles from the hotel, ideal warm-up. En route I'll eat a cliff bar and drink water with a Nuun electrolytes tablet in it. In fact, I have one on the go right now. Had a few each day before London this year to ensure I was hydrated with a full load of electrolytes on-board. I'm convinced it helped with reducing the effects of dehydration.
OO - Trust me, you will not want to run the last 5.5k of that course into a F6 NE wind. It's grim. Re your food consumption - Well, you are on holiday, so you must make the most of it. Enjoy the sunshine out there, it's lovely!
Poacher - Nicely done with the opportunistic mara entry.
G-Dawg - This reminds me why I don't like major events but I'm sure you'll be grand and it will be another one for you to have ticked off. Are you going for the big 6?
Resting today and tomorrow, then parkrun on Sat with Mr & Mrs OO.
Just in case I can't get online before now and Sunday, have a great run with OO on Sunday. looking forward to the thread smackdown report.
Good luck g-dawg!! I have read that Tokyo is used to be the last on the list of six star finishers events and that there are stories of people contacting Tokyo mara or the majors organisation explaining that they only need Tokyo for the set and apparently getting in.
I'm a bit more obsessive in my loading whereby in an effort to get as many carbs in me I try to avoid anything that isn't carb dense and particularly things protein based like chicken that will make me feel fuller.
However a more relaxed approach seemed to work perfectly fine in London in April.
11 Miles over lunchtime. That's my last run of any length done. Parkrun Saturday and that'll really be it. Warmer out than I was expecting.
DT - That's great news for your son! Will be a fantastic experience.
G-Dawg - Best of luck for Sunday if you don't get online. Enjoy the trip and I'm expecting to see you chasing Mo in!
Got a 2 x 3 mile tempo to do tonight, won't be able to get to any of my flat routes so will bite the bullet and do it on a slightly more undulating one. My new HR strap should arrive too. My old one recorded a average HR of 195 for my warm up on Sunday so thought it was time for a new one!
Yes DT19 just enjoying a fantastic buffet breakfast. Fortunately I did a short run and a long walk today, so 30k+ steps. Still worried about the knee but focusing on a lovely holiday and will be happy to just get round the race and catch up with Gerard. Weather never bothers me much Gerard unless I'm aiming for a PB which is not the case. I seem to fare better than most in tough conditions.
DT - a great day for the lad - far more important than running
OO we need details of the 5 courses you big fat slob.
No running here but a bog standard 45m road bike today, so not too bad.
Gonna be a good weekend.
G-Dawg - A few of my friends have completed all 6. I can get some inside info on Tokyo if you like? The Chicago elite race is shaping up to be a cracker. I think Mo and Rupp will have their work cut out to win it. I hope you're settling in over there and have a brilliant run! Interesting pre race meal btw! I can't bear pizza but I must be one of the very few who share that view. My brother almost divorced me from the family when I declared that to him.
Poacher - Agreed, it's all very exciting! Nice bike miles.
DT - Brilliant stuff re your boy!
Stevie - I hope the sesh went well. My HR strap/device started playing up a couple of months ago and I never got round to getting a new one.
One more day to get through in work and then it's chill some time with a very long jog on Sunday, followed by Ale and stuff. My usual pre race meal is some fish with a jacket potato and salad. It just works for me, I will have some extra carbs over the course of the next 48 hours which is unusual for me as I usually don't eat much in the way of carbs. It's funny I have barely run much in the last 10 days or so and my achilles is starting to moan and my feet had a few twinges these past few days. I almost thought the dreaded PF was gonna flare up. Maranoia has set in.
OO - nice incidental carb-loading - glad you're enjoying yourself!
GD - perfectly normal maranoia! Sounds like you've got everything covered though. Hope the weather is kind. All the best.
DT - that's great news for you and your son. Have a blast at parkrun tomorrow. I'm probably not going to make it now, so need to re-think tomorrow's session, but at least I can now make it my last double digit run before GER.
Stevie - hope the tempo run went well.
GM - all the best for Sunday - with any luck the high winds will not materialise.
Poacher - nice bike miles - you don't reckon you could sneak round on your bike on Sunday, then?
Looking forward to all the races this weekend. Go smash it guys!
6 mile recovery run for me this morning. Halfmaranoia too - bit of a temperature and resting heart rate on the rise again.
The knee still feels weird- there is definitely something not right mechanically. Still not sure it will last the distance, but apart from that I’m feeling very fit and chilled. Another scorcher today...
impressive "loading", btw, OO
back to mundanity - 13.5 yesterday, with kids' XC training in the middle . . .
OO- I didn't expect you to move onto a full breakfast at stage 5!!! Don't think i'd have got near that! Nice jog this morning!
Nice 13, Birch.
Gul, there is a long way still between me and a parkrun tomorrow. If I had made it every time I went to bed on a friday planning to i'd have run double what I have.
I do find my rhr generally rises in the build up to a big race. Possibly the anxiety and adrenalin building up.
Gerard, it's annoying when the legs seem to stiffen up during a rest period when the expectation is for them to feel great. You'll be fine come the day.
Hope the tempo went well, Stevie. You just have to accept you wont hit the same paces (and if you do it is very likely your effort has strayed beyond the purpose of the session). My HRM has started doing that suddenly. I'm going to get the battery replaced in the first place. If that happens in the first mile of the mara it will mess things up a bit as I do tend to control pace with average hr in a mara.
It may be that my strap is too loose. Weighed this morning at 11.1 which is perfect race weight. I've struggled this last 10 days getting there as i've dipped a couple of times too far into the calorie deficit and ended up feeling washed out.
4 miles with strides over lunch. Weather here tomorrow looks awful. Not going to help me get to a parkrun!
Good luck to DT, OO, GM, GD, Poacher and any other racer. Embrace the pain!
I managed my greatest ever HM to marathon conversion at Berlin. 9 weeks before Berlin I ran 1:25:3x in a HM flat out. This improved to 1:21:3x within 2 weeks of Berlin. So my 2:47:3x at Berlin was double HM + 4 ½ mins. This was only possible due to my high mileage training. I firmly believe that the higher the mileage the better the conversion.
About a month ago I noticed I hadn’t taken any complete rest days for a while, so I set myself a mini goal. This goal was reached today by running 100 consecutive days! This has included 13 x Parkruns, 1 x 5mile, 3 x 10k, 1 x 10mile, 4 x HM and 3 x Marathon races. The most I ran in a week was 117 miles and have totalled 1141 in the 100 days.
I intend to run for the 101st day in a row tomorrow including a Parkrun and then get very drunk. Hopefully I’ll get a rest on Sunday to nurse a hangover!
That is some work, Badbark!! I'm hoping I get an improved conversion this time around. Once the weather returned to normal I did find that I cruised quite comfortably through my long runs.
I meant to mention above, I was reading an article last night on the training records released for Kipchoge. They show he runs 7 days a week and does 5 double days. They also show that he runs 3 key sessions and everything else is easy paced running.
The interesting part was that they produced a table that demonstrated by reference to his mara pace and his easy pace, hat the easy pace worked out as, as you dropped down the times. The equivalent effort level to his easy pace for a 3 hour mara runner was 8.43mm. His easy pace was 6.30mm.
Thanks DT that’s great info and something that I can totally relate to. My marathon pace was 6:23 while my first mile this morning was over 9 m/m pace. I average about 8:30 on my easy runs so over two minutes slower than MP.