Sub 3h15



  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Nice trophy, OO. Get the Brasso out.

    Top bombing again, Badbark. Nice.

    Wicked park running, Stevie. Sub-18 just around the corner for you.

    Another PB for me yesterday. My third lap around the Top Gear track at Dunsfold in a Porsche 997 put a massive grin on my face.  :D 
    I finally got round to using a track experience gift I got last year for my birthday. Fantastic speed. Just need to save every penny and buy one.

    As a result, I couldn't run yesterday, so nipped onto the trails today for 12 miles in the mud.

    I weighed myself today. I'm turning into a fat b'stard. Put on about 5 pounds since Chicago. Still, it's noted and I can do something about it. Massive meal with friends last night probably had something to do with it but I can tell I'm a bit lardy right now. I always put on extra timber at this time of year.
  • Gul Darr said:
    I'm thinking that it's time to retire the shoes from today's run which have now done 1001 miles; let's just say that they're not got in wet weather!
    You should do what I do and take a knife to the sole to cut out new grip!  :) I’ve run almost 2,800 miles in a pair of Hoka Clifton 3s. I’m going to keep running in them until they fall apart. They are still my most padded and comfortable shoe.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    g dawg, I'm with you on the weight gain. I went through the post mara slob stage then went on holiday then came home from holiday to no kitchen for 3 weeks as having extension and new kitchen. I'm easily 5lb up. 

    I can't believe the miles you guys get from shoes and not get injured. 

    Easy 13 today. Spent all of  yesterday in Cardiff drinking at the rugby. Started off tentatively with a 8.40 mile then built from there. Deliberately picked pace up second half so half way average pace was 8.20 and final average was 8.05. Very comfortable effort wide despite the abuse I gave to my body yesterday. 
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Birch my daughter junior OO and boyfriend tried the castle parkrun in Sheffield this week. A smaller run but they enjoyed- first male and female I think.
    Yes the trophy is mine for a year. Nice gentle 15 today brings up 55 for the week, though I’m feeling tired and lacking pace.
    Congrats on the rugby DT great weekend for the home nations. Also enjoyed the F1 today great end to the season.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    yes bodes well for the world cup with 3 of the home nations clearly capable of doing something serious and Scotland, whilst not quite there,  still at a level where they can certainly have a say in things. 

    Well done to the junior levels of the family!

    Few days to Berlin  in outcomes. My expectation is I'll get in on basis I failed last year and it's said you have a 50/50 chance. However system doesn't known entered last year so my odds are same again. If I don't I might take to the Facebook page like the vlm ballot whingers. 
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    I was just looking at Mont st Michel mara in May- now that’s a good race!
  • DT - good miles for the week and heading for a good year's tally. And yes, you're right about my non-branded shoes. I think, at least for some people, there are far more important factors in picking up/avoiding injuries. Hope you get a place in Berlin.
    Birch - good shoe stats! I currently have 5 pairs of road shoes on the go - 1001, 778, 706, 160 and 53 being their current mileage, plus a pair of trail shoes currently on 439.
    GD - nice birthday gift. A bit of extra insulation always comes in handy when it's getting colder ;)
    Badbark - sounds like some quality shoes. I could try taking the knife to mine and using the off-cuts to plug the holes I guess! At 2p a mile I can't grumble though :)
    OO - good parkrunning by your family. Nice 15 - I'm feeling a little jaded myself too.
    A bit late up this morning, so had to put in a bit of effort and do 10 miles @ 7:23/m instead of steady/easy pace.

  • Congrats on number 75 Badbark - and a very solid time in bad condtions on tired legs. Are you looking to get to 100 in the next few years? Running the next day at speedy pace like that is incredible too!

    Great Parkrun Stevie - definitely should see a sub 18 soon, especially with the right course. 3.20 on the first  1k is pretty rapid!

    Nice trophy OO, congratulations; decent PR time with a hangover! Great running by the junior OO team getting first places.

    Birch  - which parkrun is that? Sounds like chaos! I think we get around 400 at Ashton Court and that feels really busy.

    Track day sounds fun GD, hoping to take my S5 to castle coombe in the next couple of months to do one myself before I sell it; fast car but doubt it's up to the same level as the 997. Joining you and DT on the weight gain - pushing close to 80kg now when I was down to 73 at one point before London.

    Tough weekend of festivities but got out yesterday for a slow 10 miler; threw in a couple of sub-7 miles to try and sweat out some of the evil though. 
  • Nicko - 3.20 was idiotic! A 16 year old ran 16.14 so I think we all got caught up going at his pace for the first few 100m. I'm off on holiday for 5 days on Thursday then will give it another crack on the 8th. Will pace more sensibly this time! Hopefully at least one of us if not all get into Berlin.

    Gul/Badbark - That's incredible mileage in those shoes! I have 3 pairs in rotation and have just brought a pair of Nike Pegasus 35s for a 4th. My two pairs of Ultraboosts are on 550 miles and are still going strong. They look almost new to be fair!

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    OO - my daughter's done Castle a couple of times, and , as you say, enjoyed the "smaller" feel.  3 laps with a testing hill each time, I believe, so good work by junior & bf . I'll have to give it a go  . . .   
    nicko - Sheffield Hallam  . . .    
    15.2 this morning, to start the week on a positive note - the blue Mizuno's have now advanced to 911 miles :)   
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Yes, what happened the to trusted negative split approach, Stevie? Enjoy your holiday.

    Another decent run, Gul. You are made of stronger stuff than me to run like this so soon after a mara and in well used footwear.

    I hope I am not made to wait for my outcome until the back end of the response period as I was last year. I am not very patient with these things.

    5 at recovery this morning, spin this evening.

  • DT - That's why I am so annoyed with myself, every other race this year I have paced to plan. At least I should have learned my lesson for next time.

    Im on 1470 so I will clear 1500 miles for the year and possibly get to 1600. I've already ran over 1000 miles more then I did last year and probably more mileage then my previous lifetime total!

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Stevie - Have a good holiday. My cheap shoes certainly do NOT look almost new! And that's a bit mileage increase for you.
    Birch - great start to the week.
    DT - I guess my body has just adapted to the lack of support and cushioning! Incidentally, I had quite a few injuries when I used to by branded pairs - but to be fair I think it was more down to my training!
    My body seems to be getting into a routine of waking up a bit later than usual, so I thought I might be a bit short on the miles today. However, my pace improved on yesterday's, which is not what I was anticipating. 11 miles in all, 3 w/u @ 7:52/m and 8 @ 7:03 /m.
    I've been pondering some more on my marathon and had a thought which is probably utter tosh but can't seem to dismiss it. Is the issue down to my caffeine strategy? Usually I drink loads of coffee (probably explains how I manage to get up so early on a regular basis!) but every time I race a marathon I cut out caffeine completely for 4 or more days and then take on a big hit the morning of the race. Am I simply not taking on enough to bring me back up to the levels which are usually in my body? For example, for Rother Valley I started drinking strong coffee at 5am. So when I started to fade in the race, that would have been about 6 hours later. I certainly would have less than half of that morning's caffeine left in my bloodstream by then (probably quite a bit less than that). It seems to make sense to me. I ran 3;14 for a GPS watch measured marathon on a solo training run this time last year with no taper, no carb-load and no liquid/gel/good intake during the run had no fade whatsoever. Definitely seems worth testing out to me. So I will pencil in some caffeine depletion one week (probably in the New Year) and otherwise stick to my usual routine and see if I fade during a long MP run. If so then I will scrap the caffeine depletion / re-load for racing.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    gul, i am confident that you are much fitter than a 3.20 mara, even taking the terrain etc into account and think it is more down to nutrition. Perhaps next mara just stick to what you are used to in respect of caffeine.
  • Gul - according to this website, caffeine withdrawal symptoms can last for 2-9 days after stopping intake - 

    So maybe it could be that you are still affecting yourself despite taking on caffeine in the morning? Might be absolute rubbish but who knows - as DT says, your fitness should be in line for a better than 3:20 result - if you're easily knocking out 8 x 7mm in a morning run; this sounds like a good level to me.

    Great mileage Stevie, huge increase. I'll struggle to get to 1000 this year I think. Enjoy the holiday - hopefully good news re: Berlin when you get back.

    Progression run with the club again last night - 25mins easy, 20 increasing pace - a bit slower than last week but still got some segment records so quite happy. Think I need to take a few days off soon for my foot - it's fine to run but weirdly walking hurts. Will just keep up fitness with some spin / sufferfests.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    It’s worth trying Gul. I’ve cut back on coffee and drink more tea. I also take decaf after 7pm as I’m a bad sleeper. 
    Run and swim yesterday. Off to Keswick for a couple of days but the weather foccast looks dreadful for my off-road run.
  • Gul – It’s funny you mentioned your caffeine intake as I thought it played a part too. I don’t think it’s the fact you deplete beforehand, but taking 3 cups of coffee 3 hours before a race isn’t ideal. You can’t possibly know how much you’ve taken and the effects of caffeine peak after 1 hour. So you were already on the way down before the race started.

    I’ve experimented with caffeine and this is what works perfectly for me - I take a cup of coffee about 3 hours before the race to help with toilet necessities and get some caffeine in the blood. About an hour before the race I take a 200mg caffeine tablet. I’m buzzing nicely on the start line. Then at about half way I take another 100mg of caffeine. This ensures I’m feeling the peak effects over the later miles.

    Afterwards I’m still a bit hyper for a few hours but I’ve had no other adverse effects. You should experience with dosages to find the sweet spot for yourself. You can buy 200mg caffeine tablets very cheaply from ‘My Protein’ or ‘Bulk Powders’ online. I break them in half for the 100mg dosage and store in tiny sealable bags.

    I’m also a firm believer that you should never try anything unpractised before a race. Your preparation for the marathon should be close to what you did before your best training session. Tapering, carbo loading etc are all overrated in my opinion.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    I've always avoided caffeine on race days. For some reason I have it in my head that it will increase heart rate and when I'm at the business end of a marathon, the last thing I need is an extra few beats in the red zone. Probably total cobblers as I've never looked into it. 

    Gul: I was talking about you to a mate I was running with last week. We can't work it out. You'll end up running around 1000 miles more than me this year. The pace of some of your runs is amazing. I think you're lighter than me (12st 11lbs on race days). Your ability to switch up to a faster pace in morning runs like your 11 miler today is mighty impressive. 
    As others have said, that all adds up to a marathon much faster than 3.20.

    If I remember correctly, the last one was a multi-lap affair and water was not on every mile. awkward terrain was also a factor. Given those circumstances, 3.20 is brilliant.
    I'll wager that if you'd run a big city type event with regular tarmac and water at every mile you'd have smashed 3.10. I definitely know that water is a fuel factor for me no matter what the temperature is.

    Just a recovery run of 4 miles for me last night. Tonight is usually a 10 miler with my mates but it's supposed to be hosing it with rain, so I'll do the 1k intervals at the track instead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I don't complicate things with caffeine. I just go about my tea drinking as normal building up to a race and have a cuppa with my toast and jam on race day.

    Talking of hosing it down I went out over lunch for 8 x 3 minutes at 10k-5k pace off 90 seconds For some reason on paper this looked a fairly tame session. I went to the race course as I usually do, which is on the river and completely exposed. Soaked through and freezing cold was the outcome but the session was nailed which is good. Had my hr in the last 4 reps up into the high 170's so pushing race effort which was good.

  • Also tend to have morning coffee as normal (I have a generally high daily intake); but also make sure that a couple of my gels are the ones that contain caffeine.

    This is not generally to do with alertness but because, apparently, the addition of caffeine with a carbohydrate gel allows the body to absorb more carbohydrate than without; so in theory you have a more efficient refuelling and less chance of gastro-upset.

    I tried to post with the link to the sciencey bit for this but it wouldn't post for some reason. There's an explanation out there though.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Plus one for the caffeine gels - but more to avoid withdrawal symptoms given only a single cup at breakfast rather than any expected performance boost.

    I'm also not convinced of any performance boost from the caffeine withdrawal/boost strategy Gul - I would just focus on getting a decent breakfast and taking on carbs during the race.

    Still building the mileage here, so 8 miles this evening on the treadmill.  Hopefully out on the road tomorrow afternoon for 10+ miles.

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Track session done and the rain eased off but the wind kicked up a tad. Did a 2 mile warm up followed by 6 x 1km with 200m walking recs.
    1k efforts had to be done in 3.40, which according to Strava is around 5.45 pace.

    Knocked them all out and then did a 2 mile warm down to bag just over 8 for the night. I've felt better on this sort of session but it's the first one for a while.

    Scales reported a 2 pound loss in the last week, so all going in the right direction.
  • I use 1 or 2 x 100mg Caffeine pills + water on long training runs instead of gels. The caff pills are lighter, no calories and give a little caffeine boost to keep on going. Caff pills are far cheaper than gels. 
  • Thanks guys for all your thoughts. I drink quite a lot of instant coffee, especially at work; maybe 6 or 7 cups and each with 2 spoonfuls of coffee, so must be over 1200mg a day. I tend to drink tea in the evening, but might have another coffee too. Despite that I don't get headaches when I stop before a race. Occasionally I've had aching muscles which apparently is another withdrawal symptom, but not too much. At the weekend, I drink filter coffee and have 2 or 3 large cups if I'm at home on the morning of a race. Never experienced any kind of "buzz" or rush no matter how much I drink. The only difference I find is that while I'm caffeine depleting I nod off early in the evening! My instinct is telling me that I should just continue with my normal caffeine intake in the lead up to a race (including early morning coffees beforehand).
    SBD - pleased to hear you're building up nicely.
    GD - great 1k reps.
    Up a bit earlier this morning (caffeine levels must be back to normal!), so managed 14 miles. 7 @ 8:27 and 7 @ 7:53. Now up to 2670 miles ytd which is my highest ever.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Another good session, Gul. I was right, you're bang on 1000 ahead of me for the year as I clicked onto 1670 last night, my biggest ever total also.  :)
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    can't add to the caffeine debate - I drink a few mugs of instant each day, but never considered any possible effect on running, adverse or positive.    
    8 miles hilly fartlek today.
    Gul - my pal who DNS at R.V.   is planning to do it as a solo undertaking in January. He will do the 9 laps, stopping when device says 26.2 achieved.  I am designated to adjudicate & confirm . . .    rather him than me - but together with a couple of other friends, we are going to accompany him a few laps each.  Not quite sure why he's doing this, really . .    :/  :)    
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Birch, I'm not sure id want to redeem myself on a 9 lap training run to be fair. I'd want to do it in a proper event if I'm going to such effort. Nice fartlek. 

    Gul, nice going again. 

    Nice reps, gdawg. 

    Glad you ate building carefully, sbd. 

    8 mile hilly mid week easy tonight. Felt a bit leggy and tired for first time in a while so kept it very easy at about 8.12mm.

    6 straight running days that is so rest tomorrow. Therefore few beers at the local now with footy. Had a recently surprising weigh in this morning. only 1 or 2lb above my normal training weight and 4 from perfect race weight which I never hit until the last 10 days. 
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Gul - I thought I was a coffee fiend but you out do me but only just. I've never focused on the science regarding coffee and nutrition in the lead up to a marathon. In fact I had a hot curry, beers and quite a bit of wine the Friday night before my recent marathon and had no issues whatsoever. 

    Re the current weight gain/(loss) discussion . I've hit an all time race weight best. Tipped the sclaes this morning at 71.1kg's. My lightest since circa 1996. That's about 2kg's lighter than when I ran the Mara. 

    Had a lovely run tonight. 1mile approx warm up and then approx 6 miles with a pal who I haven't seen in ages. It was very windy but we managed to avoid the rain. Ran home from our departure point and felt really good so much so I managed to claim a Strava segment through town and knocked out a 3:37 km in the process with an incline and it didn't feel too difficult. I'm targeting 70kg's race weight in the new year and I'm gonna kick the filthy smoking habit too ( I know it's stupid, hangs his head in shame) and a sub 18 5k should be doable. 
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    It’s doable in May Gerard when I’m back in Jersey ;) What’s the secret to your weight loss do you think?
    Im training for a 5 mile race on Sunday which is entirely on the beach. It’s handicapped by age so I get a head start on the Senior men. I’m gonna try for a top 5 finish which would be my best ever, definitely top 10.
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    GD - spooky. 
    Birch - good luck to your mate. My watch measured it short - about 25.8 I think!
    DT - enjoy the rest day.
    GM - I never quite know at what point in the day to weigh myself - I guess as long as it's the same time each day then it will show any genuine fluctuations. 70kg is my rough target too.
    OO - all the best with the beach race - hope it's firm under foot.
    10 easy miles this morning. I reckon there is a significant chance I will get injured before the end of the year, but hopefully I can make it.

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