Sub 3h15

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good start to the running week there, Gul!

    G-dawg, that's amazing the difference a tweak in technique makes. Nice TT also.

    Just a progressive 5 miler yesterday through the easy paces. 10 x 1k session tonight. Hoping it goes better than my recent other sessions.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    That's tremendous GD. I improved a lot at first but seem to have plateaud now. I'm actually trying to learn tumble turns without great success.
    Taking part in a relay road race tonight which should be fun and give me some speed practice. Wet here Gul but hopefully will improve this evening 🤞
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    Sunshine and showers here today but very humid. 6x800m reps on the track, still feeling the blood missing from last week but getting back.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    I saw a guy doing tumble turns this morning, OO, effortless and mighty impressive. Way out of my ability.
    My hands were aching after the swim which my expert chum tells me is a good thing as I was pulling more water, hence the greater speed. Just like running, I'm not expecting such big jumps in improvement from hereon, but that's OK, I just need to do 2 miles comfy.

    Good luck with the relay tonight.

    What does the lack of blood feel like, PMJ, a feeling of weakness?
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    G-Dawg said:
    What does the lack of blood feel like, PMJ, a feeling of weakness?
    Like you have a car and you are fine driving along happily at 50 or 60 mph but then you want to drop it down a gear and overtake and there is nothing there. I can exercise and do steady runs but the top end is missing.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    That's how I have felt recently. Tick along nicely at mara pace but just don't feel like I have any more in me.

    My first big session yesterday in quite a while, 10 x 1k at 10kp off 1 min. Reps came in 3.52, 3.54, 3.50, 3.51, 3.53, 3.57, 3.47, 4.02, 3.53, 4.03.

    I was working hard after the first 2 reps and didn't think i'd get near finishing the session. Did this session in March a bit faster, however it was 10c warmer last night than then and I was dripping in sweat from early on. Lost it a bit towards the end but was working right on the vomit line.

  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭

    Really impressive swimming for G-Dawg and OO! A long way from my capabilities at the moment, my longest continuous swim is only 400m. Lessons seems to be working though so I'll have a crack at beating that at the weekend.

    Nicko - Unlucky on the 10k, probably the right decision though so onwards and upwards!

    DT - That's a monster session! Really well executed as well. I'm looking forward to getting back to the standard weeks with a big session and a tempo.

    Rest day last night and 4m inc 4 x 45s strides on Tuesday. 10000m on the track tonight which I'm really looking forward to. Standard is a bit lower then the 5000 that I did so ill be able to run with and race people

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Good training going on. And good swimming.  Have you been taught/coached in swim technique or is it something one picks up along the way?

    PMJ is there any standard advice about exercise after blood donation? I would never run on the day of, but other than that have never noticed any difference afterwards. Must be all the free tea and biscuits.

    Still nowhere near running here, walking a bit more easily though. The Vatternrundan bike event in Sweden was a blast - started about 2330 Friday evening, rode though the night and well into the next day for a total of 185m.  Pretty tired at the end but it feels like an achievement. We witnessed the aftermath of a nasty crash with one rider looking very poorly and waiting for the air ambulance. Even on largely closed roads you need to be constantly alert and a dose of good luck helps. Plan now is to keep the bike fitness and try to get the knee functioning again, although it's hard to see any marathons on the horizon for a very long time, if ever.

    Autumn mara season approaches....
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭
    Howdi all,

    Ive remembered that one of the consistent things of this forum is for a catch up just look up Guls previous couple of posts..Thanks Gul!!

    Ive not posted as ive nothing to post! 60 miles in 4 weeks so i think im properly recovered from Edi
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    That’s a massive effort Poacher and great you have the bike as a fallback on while the knee recovers. 
    I’m sure you’ll push on from here Menn, welcome back.
    My relay went ok on Wednesday but  our team were well outclassed. I ran 2.65 miles in 15:27. Resting today ahead of the Masters Champs tomorrow.
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    DT - excellent effort with the 1k reps - that's a very tough session!
    OO - that's a speedy leg, well done. All the best for Saturday.
    PMJ - should you be back to 100% next week?
    Stevie - hope the 10,000m went well.
    Poacher - great achievement. Keeping alert must be difficult after so many hours on the road. Here's hoping your knee heals so you can get back to running too eventually.
    Mennania - pleased to be of service. Hope you're fully recovered now.
    A couple of days ago, I had a few aches and pains that felt more than just aches and pains, so decided to take a rest yesterday and just 6 miles this morning. Not surprising with all the back to back MLRs, so must be careful. I'm now almost decided on cutting back a bit and focussing on speed for a bit seeing as nothing seems to be working out with ultras. Might even do parkrun tomorrow.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    That's a big decision Gul, worth a try. Will you stick with the early training runs?
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭

    Poacher - That's a huge effort! Very well done
    Gul - Shame you can't get an ultra in, you would excel at them! Will you be able to get a shorter race in to focus the speedwork on?

    10000m went well last night:

    Race was at 7 so left work at the usual 5 for what should have been a 45 minute journey so plenty of time! As usual this didn't work out, traffic was a nightmare and I seemed to be getting nowhere! Luckily Lewis (my coach) had come down to spectate so had signed me in and picked my number up. The back up plan was for me to run to B race which he would also enter and then pace me round. Arrived at 18.35 so time for a quick change then just enough time to jog a mile and do a couple of strides. Quick discussion on tactics then they lined us up for the A race.

    Gun goes off and I settle in at the back for the first lap which comes in at 1.25 so a touch quick but nothing suicidal. Release the two in front of me are slowing so go past and work to get onto the back of the next group over the next 4/5 laps. 1600m comes up in 5.51 so almost bang on target. Race has settled down now so there are 2 guys who have gone off alone way out front, a group of 3 about 15m ahead then our little group of 4 which I'm tucked in nicely at the back of.

    Lewis timed us at 3k at 11 flat (36.40 pace) and we seem to be slightly catching the group in front. Stays this way for the next few laps. I'm hoping we will latch onto the next group but we don't seem to be getting there and we seem to be slowing down so I decided to take on the pacing. Didn't feel like I had increased the pace but the lads behind me sounded like they were working fairly hard! Gap to the next group was around 60m by this point so I just tried to maintain it.

    Was solo from this point as I slowly dropped the group I was in. Didn't get a 5k split (wasn't wearing a watch) but made sure I kept working hard. First place came past with around 6 laps to go followed by 2nd with around 5 to go. Managed to tag onto him for around 3/4 of a lap before he pulled away. Through the kitchen sink at the last 4 laps to make sure I came in under 37mins!

    Final official time of 36.55 so a 49s PB. Really enjoyed racing on the track and definitely something I'll be looking to do more of in the future!

  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    Poacher said:
    PMJ is there any standard advice about exercise after blood donation? I would never run on the day of, but other than that have never noticed any difference afterwards. Must be all the free tea and biscuits.

    Don't know if there is any advice. I now do not run on the day of donation but do the day before and after. I've read a few papers so e.g.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0002870395900853

    says "Maximal performance was decreased for at least 1 week. Submaximal performance was unaffected by blood donation."

    and that seems to agree with what I see i.e. it is a week or so before I am back at the top end.
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    Stevie cracking 10k time there ,making great progress.
    Poacher impressive cycle for a man who can barely walk .
    Gdawg a mile in the pool is a long way.

    Unfortunately the lurgy has lasted a lot longer than expected and running was on hold for 10 days , got a very easy run on Thursday but didn't feel up to it on Friday and back to work today again. 


  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Cracking run Stevie. I only tried it once but it’s a tough and lonely way to run 10k, especially to stay strong at the end.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that Leslie, hope you are feeling better.
    From the masters today 2:28 for 800, 4:54 for the 1500. By the time the 5k came around I was pooped and struggling with a sore hip. So I decided to bail out after 2*5:50 miles and walked off the track- a first for me. Overall a bit of a below par performance today, not 100% sharp, but hopefully just a one off. 12 planned tomorrow for a 45 week.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Congrats on the pb, Stevie. I'm not sure i'd fancy a track 10k.

    Well done on the multiple races, OO.

    Hope you're feeling better, Leslie.

    Steady weekend for me with a few easy miles Saturday morning at recovery effort then 15 yesterday. Was a bit warm by the time I went out but fortunately there was a lot of cloud cover. Furthest I've run since London, and it felt it! Two hours running now seems like a very long time. 

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    edited June 24
    I held out for 17 yesterday and a 50 mile week but much slower pace than you DT. 8 days till my next race, a 5 miler under the Tyne bridge, and the start of a busy summer race period. Last year this was my purple patch, so trying to recapture a bit of the same form. 
    Pilates and swimming planned today.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    I hear ya, DT! 20 plodding miles in the heat on Saturday. Total time was 3.01, the same as my London Marathon time. Wanted a time on feet session but I do find it harder to go really slow. I think I'll struggle badly at the Race To The Stones (RTTS).

    A 5k recovery yesterday helped refresh the legs and and another mile in the Lido first thing this morning woke up the rest of the body after far too much BBQ food and beer at the weekend.
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    OO - great effort on the track at the weekend; probably wise to bail out of the 5k. A good week all in all. If I cut back on my mileage, then I won't need to start quite as early as I currently do, but I've no plans to switch to a completely different time of day.
    Stevie - that's a first 10,000m and good to get a PB. Disappointed not to do the 100km race, but on the other hand it was a bit warm on Saturday. I've no races booked at the moment (ultras or shorter distances).
    Leslie - hope you've shaken that lurgy off now.
    DT - good return to a longer run.
    GD - how long to RTTS now?
    First parkrun in quite a few months on Saturday and first bit of running faster than HMP since the 10k race. Found myself in 10th place after the initial dash to the first turn and was pleased to gradually reel in a few runners as it progressed and finish in 5th place (although one guy did storm past me later on the first lap, but he is a sub 36 10k runner). Lap splits similar to the last few outings, 5:45, 6:00 and 6:03, but the the last stretch took an extra 20-30 seconds! They've finally cottoned on to the fact that the course was a bit short and have extended it by around 150m I reckon. So no chance of logging a sub 18 now! Time on the clock was 18:54. Calfs were really tight after finishing and had to walk the first half a mile home before I could manage to run again. Took a rest yesterday and then when I went out this morning there was something not right with my right hip / upper leg and couldn't get going properly and carded zero again. Don't think it's anything serious, so will see how it goes tomorrow.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Good parkrun Gul I'm sure you can go lower or experiment with a faster course.
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    Thanks, OO, hopefully can chip away at that time, but I doubt there's a significantly faster course anywhere. The only negative is a 180 turn on each lap (so 3 in total). Went out this morning but didn't feel 100% and decided not to risk going back to square one and so took another rest day. 
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭

    Gul - Decent parkrun time, do you think the course is accurate now? Hopefully nothing serious in the hip and you can get back to it soon.

    OO - Sounds like a sensible decision to bail the 5000, speedy times in the other two races!

    Had a very enjoyable 14m on Saturday in the sunshine, legs felt really good and form the best it ever has. Forgot to take a drink with me though so HR was climbing up towards the end. Followed up with a 1k swim on Sunday which came out 3mins faster then last time I did it. Longest continuous swim of 467m as well, nice to see improvements but still a long way to go!

    Berlin focus started this week so 7m last night and I'll do 5 tonight plus some glute and core work. 3 x 2m on the plan for tomorrow

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hope the legs feel better now, Gul?

    It is tough work in the sun, Stevie. I actually took money with me on my run Sunday as about half way I go passed a shop and thought I would buy some water, however the cloud cover came in a mile or 2 in and I didn't need it.

    Easy 4 miles on Monday with spin then a session yesterday of 10 x 800m off 45s. Averaged around 6.15 for the reps. On paper it sounds a reasonably straightforward session as most people doing reps like that will do them faster than 5k pace, however 10 of them and just 45s rest caught up with me towards the end.

    Easy 5 over lunchtime today then circuits tonight.

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    Stevie - good MLR and swim. What sort of effort / pace will you do for today's 3 x 2M? I reckon the parkrun course is close enough to 5k now, although my watch still measured it as short!
    DT - it was nice to go out in the rain the other morning (even though it was only for a few minutes). Good 800m rep session off short recoveries. 
    Feeling back to normal this morning, but limited myself to 5 miles to be cautious. Right hamstring hurt a bit afterwards, so need to be careful.
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭

    Gul - The plan is for the first rep at HMP then the next 2 at 10k pace. The 2 min recoveries should make that doable. Sounds like you are on the mend but good to be cautious

    DT - That's a great session, I've done it on the track and its definitely not easy!

    5miles last night came out at 7.50 average for 132HR. First time ive ever ran sub 8mm pace for sub 135HR so things are coming together nicely.

  • nicko1981nicko1981 ✭✭✭
    Been struggling with motivation and niggling injuries recently; however just been pulled in as a last minute sub for Cotswold Way Relays on Saturday; 13miles of trail in 30degree heat! Not run that far in quite some time so will be a tough day.

  • Hi all,

    I'm not sure what my target time/pace should be for my first marathon. (I just joined this forum so not sure if this is the best place to write this (didn't find how to post a new thread...))

    I'm a male, 6'1, 11 stone (1m86, 70kg). I've been running for years now, on and off, mostly for leisure. Used to not run more than 20/30 miles a week (did quite a few trail races in Switzerland in 2016 including a 25 mile one with ~10,000 ft elevation gain done in ~6h).

    I ran a half marathon mid-April in 1h35 after only training 'properly' for 6 weeks (properly in brackets as I only really did tempo runs). I have signed up for the Thames Meander marathon (Aug 10th) and have been following a relatively structured marathon plan since May. I’m not scared to put in the hours/sweat and generally am limited by how fast I recover more than anything. I’ve been doing ~40miles on average since May with peak weeks at 50 miles (+ ~20 miles active recovery on bike per week). I’ve ran a 21.7 miles long run after 2 relatively intense weeks of training in 3h05 on June 16 (with pretty much no breaks during the run).

    My early thinking was to aim for 3h30 but I have the feeling that I could aim for better (can I break 3h20?). I want to go for a negative split and am worried that starting to fast will just get me to collapse at the end of the marathon…

    What do you guys think? Below is a summary of my last training sessions with details for specific sessions (didn’t show x-training, mainly cycling as active recovery and also do enough core strength training)

    Thanks in advance for your advice!

    Will

    Running training log:

    • Date: 25/6/19, 5.0 miles, 8:48 avg. pace, 149 avg. HR, --m D+; morning run on empty stomach
    • Date: 24/6/19, 8.1 miles, 7:30 avg. pace, 155 avg. HR, 20m D+; 2x 10x 200m in 42" avg first set, 41" avg 2nd set
    • Date: 23/6/19, 6.2 miles, 8:09 avg. pace, 142 avg. HR, 56m D+
    • Date: 22/6/19, 12.5 miles, 7:44 avg. pace, 156 avg. HR, 119m D+; progressive pace 7km/7km/6km @ 5.00min/km, 4.45min/km and 4.35min/km
    • Date: 20/6/19, 4.2 miles, 7:41 avg. pace, 146 avg. HR, 35m D+
    • Date: 16/6/19, 21.8 miles, 8:29 avg. pace, 149 avg. HR, 205m D+; consistent pace (progressive HR)
    • Date: 14/6/19, 4.2 miles, 7:54 avg. pace, 143 avg. HR, 38m D+
    • Date: 13/6/19, 6.7 miles, 9:02 avg. pace, 132 avg. HR, 223m D+; 10x30'' hill repeats
    • Date: 11/6/19, 7.3 miles, 8:18 avg. pace, 155 avg. HR, 57m D+
    • Date: 10/6/19, 8.3 miles, 7:48 avg. pace, 150 avg. HR, --m D+; 3km/2km/2km/1km @ 4.35/4.18/4.21/ 3.58 min/km
    • Date: 9/6/19, 6.4 miles, 8:09 avg. pace, 146 avg. HR, 58m D+
    • Date: 7/6/19, 14.5 miles, 8:19 avg. pace, 149 avg. HR, 126m D+; incl. 2x ~10min acceleration in the end of the run (TTL ~27 miles in 2 days)
    • Date: 6/6/19, 6.3 miles, 8:09 avg. pace, 144 avg. HR, 47m D+; PM run - 13 miles total in the day
    • Date: 6/6/19, 6.5 miles, 8:09 avg. pace, 144 avg. HR, 54m D+; AM run - 13 miles total in the day
    • Date: 4/6/19, 9.5 miles, 7:57 avg. pace, 151 avg. HR, 84m D+
    • Date: 3/6/19, 7.9 miles, 7:46 avg. pace, 157 avg. HR, 79m D+; 5x 1.5km @ ~6.40min/mile
    • Date: 31/5/19, 1.0 miles, 6:43 avg. pace, 132 avg. HR, 11m D+
    • Date: 29/5/19, 6.3 miles, 7:54 avg. pace, 152 avg. HR, 60m D+; 5x800m @ 6.40min/mile (recovery week)
    • Date: 26/5/19, 16.4 miles, 8:17 avg. pace, 152 avg. HR, 148m D+; 3x ~6min aceleration at the end of the run
    • Date: 24/5/19, 4.8 miles, 8:56 avg. pace, 153 avg. HR, 190m D+; 2x 5x 30" hill repeats
    • Date: 22/5/19, 4.1 miles, 8:00 avg. pace, 135 avg. HR, 35m D+
    • Date: 21/5/19, 8.0 miles, 7:34 avg. pace, 159 avg. HR, 72m D+; 5x 1.5km @ ~6.45min/mile
    • Date: 19/5/19, 18.7 miles, 8:28 avg. pace, 151 avg. HR, 158m D+; pace relatively consistent but HR constant increase
    • Date: 18/5/19, 5.6 miles, 8:35 avg. pace, 134 avg. HR, 65m D+
    • Date: 17/5/19, 5.7 miles, 8:17 avg. pace, 154 avg. HR, 8m D+
    • Date: 14/5/19, 6.9 miles, 7:31 avg. pace, 158 avg. HR, 59m D+; 5x 1.2km @ 6.35min/mile
    • Date: 12/5/19, 16.2 miles, 8:02 avg. pace, 161 avg. HR, 152m D+
    • Date: 11/5/19, 4.0 miles, 8:18 avg. pace, 151 avg. HR, 31m D+
    • Date: 9/5/19, 6.7 miles, 7:51 avg. pace, 159 avg. HR, 62m D+; 5x 1km @ ~7min/mile
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Will Welcome. I would stick with 3:30. For 1st marathons it is very hard to predict. The one thing you know for sure is that subsequent marathons will be faster. So just pick a time that’s realistic, don’t stress and enjoy it. Then next time you’ll have the experience to make a better plan and a better prediction. Going off too quick is likely to end in disappointment when you hit the wall at 20-22 miles.
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