Sub 3h15



  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Hey VT. I couldn't bring myself to part with the lorry load of cash like moneybags Nicko and get the 4% but I went for the next model down, the Nike Zoom Fly Flyknit.

    Like our millionaire chum, I only use them for races, in fact just one so far, London this year. They are a shade heavier than the 4% but still very light. The foam is more dense so adds a touch of weight but that's good for me as a heavier runner. Crucially they have the carbon plate, which is the key component I wanted to experience as it sort of launches you off. I did a couple of short test runs and then the race. Got on very well with them.
    Bagged a PB in them, so I like them.

    Still no running here but the calf muscle is so close to being fixed. Maybe try a run in another day or so.

    Interesting stories and views coming from the GFA notifications yesterday.
    I think it's time London looked after the dedicated runners more and less of the walkers at the back. I like the idea of having to be able to do a HM in a London qualifying time of around 2.30 or something and then have a 6 hour cut-off on the day.
    They could still have the charity element as well as remove a load of other problems experienced this and other years.
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭
    Hi Gang,

    Lorenzo - its nice up here. congrats to the youngster.

    @VTrunner - A forumite on sub 3 did a short track comparison with the 4% and another racing shoe and it showed a tangible benefit but of around 1-2% for him which is where I wouldve put them myself -  but 1.5% is still not to be sniffed at as its around 3 mins for those chasing the forum title. They do imo reduce the battering your legs take so potentially the benefits may manifest the further into the race you go. I use them for races.

    @G-Dawg  Whilst I know there are thousands of people who get on with ZF FK, for me they are a totally diferent shoe - I had massive issues with these at Valencia and ended up with no skin on the ball of my foot at then end (literally down to the flesh - photo anyone?) and am still suffering with mild metatarsalgia as a consequence. Take it easy with that calf.

    Booked san sebastian for November.
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    VTr - good job on the subLT.
    nicko - that sounds like unusual distances for track reps (not that I've ever done one!); I'm sure you'll have benefited without pushing it too hard still.
    GD - pleased to hear the calf is improving. Take care now.
    Mennania - hi there. Is San Sebastian a fast course? Should be a good experience anyway.
    8 easy miles this morning. GFA place for London confirmed yesterday :)
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Mennania: um, no photo, thanks for offering ;)  Seriously, that sounds horrible and painful.

    A very gentle 11 miles for me this morning.  Avon Road Relays on Sunday so kept it steady and on the flat to look after the legs as much as possible.
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    VTR Id buy the shoes if they came with a guaranteed sub 3 otherwise you can keep em at those prices even Nike Pegasus seem to be asking £105 could get these for £60 2 years ago ........
    Gdawg London is very successful at what they do and way oversubscribed so don't expect any changes apart from there soon won't be any middle aged men there , have you seen those gfa times , sub 3 at 39 ,3:05 at 44 ! and not guaranteed either anymore .Good news on the calf take it easy.
    Jools nice 11.

    12m for me today ,the first 8m were at an easy pace then 5k hard with a  bit of progression : 7:35,  7:19, 7:05 ,6:58 for the 0.1m then 1m easy to finish , pleased with how that went starting to feel some speed coming back .

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    @Joolska - Its definitely not lunch time viewing!! Good luck on Sunday

    @Leslie H - Is there a nike retail outlet near you? I have just bought a load of pegausus 34s and winflos for less than £50 a pop - Nice outing today.

    Hi @Gul Darr - Its supposed to be a pretty quick course so looking to place down a marker for London next year. Will be my first Mara as V50 too.

    6 miles for me at a v easy pace then looking forward to tomorrows 4 x 2 at HMP. I am neither confident I will finish it or looking forward to it.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    edited August 2019

    I've always been sceptical about the magic powers of the 4% but it's surprising the number of runners using them at a half or full marathon.  A couple of minutes off the marathon time would be quite nice but I shall avoid the temptation to try them for a little longer.

    Good combination of distance and mileage Leslie - building back nicely.

    Good luck for the road relays on Sunday Jools.

    It must feel good to have the GFA place confirmed Gul.  I had my deferred GFA entry from 2019 confirmed back in July.

    So what's the attraction of San Sebastian over Abingdon or Yorkshire Mennania?

    A bit hot for anything too strenuous today but the plan said tempo, so tempo it was.  Had been tempted to try out the track at High Wycombe, which I've not used since it was built a couple of years ago, but decided to just use the dread mill for convenience.  Hard work, but managed the tempo section in 39:06, with a w/u and w/d giving 12 miles in total.

  • VTrunnerVTrunner ✭✭✭
    Thanks everyone for the input on the Vaporfly. I managed to get a discount on a pair of the next%, plus had a credit at the supplier. So really only takes me about 100 USD out of pocket to get them. Excited to see how they feel (at least they can go back for a refund if things don't feel right). 

    In other shoe news, I bought a pair of Hoka Clifton 6 shoes last month (haven't tried Clifton's since V3...loved version 1 but each iteration got worse in my opinion). Anyway, these felt good in the store so went for it. But on the road they are too soft (I just squish in them and feels like they steal my bounce). But they are my new indoor house shoes. They may not work for my running, but man these are the softest, most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. 

    6.5M easy today. I ran while my 8 yr old daughter biked next to me. Autumn day early (sunny and cool and no humidity). HR has never been lower (Ave 119 at 8:40 m/m pace. It was a very easy effort, but wow that was low (which happens after hard days like my subLT yesterday, but not like this). Wondering if this is a signal that some fitness may be kicking in soon? Can always hope!
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    MENN I will have to check but I supect there isn't one nearer than Belfast (80m away) , you got some good bargains , I see older Pegasus on the bay but at newer peg 36 prices so no bargain there, only worth it if cheap. I'm not destroying shoes like I used too so not such a big hassle these days ! Love a bit of hmp pain and hope it went ok.
    SBD 10k in 39 on the dreadmill ?  your medal is in the post .
    VTR at least you got some nice new slippers for the house , the low hr is a welcome sign so a pb could be on the horizon....

    5m recovery after getting up after nights , my left quad has quite a sore patch that is a bit more than doms so a rest day is probably a good idea .

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Another vote here for the ZF FK here. I got my 2nd pair for under £80. For me the best shoe I have ever had for the price but only suited for track and road running- no use for trail or off-road. 
    I’m plodding in the Lakes this weekend and watched a friend complete his Bob Graham in 21 hours 09 today (a new club record). Remarkable achievement for a guy suffering with MS. 
    For me a sub 20 parkrun at Keswick saving my legs for a long off-road run round Derwentwater tomorrow and a 50+ week. London GFA confirmed, York decision still pending 🤔 Have a great long weekend all.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    You didn't fancy joining your friend on one of the legs OO?  It would be great to do the Bob Graham sometime but I fear my inability to descend on rough ground would be a major stumbling block.

    Go easy with the quad Leslie - you're due a rest day.  Yes, that was 10K for the tempo.  I have been doing these on the dreadmill almost weekly since May and they do get easier the more you do them!

    Set off relatively early (8am) for the long run to try and avoid the heat.  Struggled with the pace initially and then the heat in the second half.  Had left a bottle of water at the half-way point which was very welcome but I was still feeling very dehydrated towards the end.  Managed to keep the pace below 7:40 for the last few miles but only just.  22 miles in 2:51, so we'll count that as a time on feet run!

  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    20.03 for me.  I don't run that well in the heat, and managed to get stuck behind someone without room to overtake on a narrow footpath (I could have jumped down a bank onto the road, but with my history of ankle sprains that wasn't going to be attempted) which I suspect cost me a 19.59, but with a long warm up and cool down to bring up 12 for the day and 51 for the week, I'll take it.  2 more big weeks and then taper for Bristol Half: it turns out I need to bank a 1.29.xx because I'm all out of Champs qualifiers given my limited racing in the last 2 years!
  • VTrunnerVTrunner ✭✭✭
    Leslie, take it easy on the quad. Rest = good. Rest usually also = not easy to do though;-)

    Nice racing Jools. You are on your way back.

    SBD, I'm in awe of your tempo work on the treadmill. I seem to get extremely anxious on stationary machines. Kudos. And nice LR in the heat. 

    OO, nice running and hat off to your friend. What an inspiration. 

    LR of 22M for me yesterday. A little slower than you though SBD. 3:05 for me, but quicker on the last 8 and felt really strong from start to finish. Could have kept going. Warmer than I thought though as was also extremely dry (so thirsty!) at the end. But a good week at 72M. A few days with my kids to start the week, then they head back to school and I fly to Belgium for a meeting. 
  • Afternoon folks - is anyone else struggling for energy in all this heat?!

    Didn't realise that you were a swimmer Gul - presume that you've got a pool near you that's open 24/7 so you can fit in some lengths before you head out running!

    Mennania - how far from Sheffield are you? I think I might be able to rival your unpleasant foot stories as I recently had a large chunk of my toenail removed via a combination of what seemed to be wire cutters and a mini drill. Looks much better now than it did, but unfortunately I wasn't able to bring any pieces home to frame and put in my marathon memorabilia collection.

    Sterling performance on the treadmill SBD and good speedy running from both Jools and OO. Impressive to see both VTR and SBD also churning out 20+ milers in the heat.

    Hope you get yourself fixed soon G-Dawg. At least you can take your mind off things with both the cricket and Woking's push for glory.

    My physio appointment the other day was helpful - she seemed to think that the difficulty I was having with my leg wasn't directly down to the fall a few months ago, but the way my body (and specifically tight hamstrings) had coped with and compensated for it. In a nutshell I can keep running and just need to stretch a whole lot more. With only 7 weeks or so to go to Abo, I've decided I'm not in the right shape at the moment, so will try and transfer my entry and concentrate on shorter stuff + XC for the next few months rather than battle to a disappointing marathon time.

    With this in mind, I did a bit more parkrun tourism on Satruday with a trip to Frimley Lodge parkrun and while 20:2x was nothing to shout about, at least it was an imporvement on recent runs and my fastest for over three months. It was also my 27th different parkrun which I reckon puts me one ahead of OO;)

    I also got my London GFA confirmation through so look forward to catch up with everyone then.

  • G-Dawg - please don't lump me in with those common millionaires, I'm obviously a billionaire.  :D  Got the 4% with a Nike birthday discount code so although expensive they weren't £200+. Lots of discounted Zoom Flys available at the moment so considering those as a next pair for B races when the Epic React need replacing.
    Menania - San Sebastian such a fantastic place; is that full marathon?
    Gul - our track sessions have multiple groups - the faster guys were doing 1200, 600, 300 and each group below that do shorter reps to make the rest/start periods work for everyone - I stepped down to group 2 for this session.
    SBD - great tempo - was that 10k approx 6:20 pace? That's my Wed/Thu plan I think
    VT - let us know what you think of the Next%, especially the upper I've heard mixed reviews of now.
    Jools - good work in the heat; look forward to hearing how all the teams did when I see people this eve
    Lorenzo - probably a good choice on the Abo withdrawal

    No GFA place for me - ended up 20-odd secs short of the 2:57:20 needed  - probably could have made that up in the last 5k at Manchester if I knew, but Boston was my aim so as long as nothing goes sideways there I'm not too fussed really :'( . Will just do 7 hours next time and then complain to get my free place.

    Back yesterday from Paris; stopped by the planned parkrun in Bois du Boulogne which was good fun - nice to have something different with approx 30-40 runners rather than 500! Very British contingent and when the RD asked who was visiting for the first time, about 90% of hands went up. Good parkrun with 1 big loop and 2 small ones with one bit of incline; It was hot and sticky as hell already at 9am and to be honest I was in a bad way after some work drinks at the festival until pretty late so was just concentrating on keeping my stomach contents from escaping one way or another so a lame 20:05 for around 8th place in the end. Nice to do something different though.

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Hopefully you're OK for Boston nicko - what margin do you have on the qualifying time?   Bois de Boulogne sounded fun although I'm surprised there were so few runners.  I ran the 10K tempo slightly progressively so from 3:58 to 3:50 (I work in metric!), so I guess that's 6:23 to 6:10 and 6:17 average.

    Good news on the physio diagnosis Lorenzo - hopefully the stretches sort you out.  Probably a good decision not to proceed with Abingdon and to work on the speed before the London 2020 campaign,

    That's an excellent 22 miler and weekly mileage VTrunner.  Remind me what your marathon PB is and is the main target at Baystate to get a Boston qualifying time?

    A good marker in the sand Jools.

    I should get outdoors more but I got used to doing the tempo sessions on the treadmill during the winter.  I like the ability to run the 10K at close to threshold pace/HR although it's often a mental battle to complete the session!

    Sunday's 22 miler in the heat really wiped me out for the rest of the day including a post-run 2 hour sleep, so only just recovered, although managed a 6 mile recovery run on Monday in the cooler late evening conditions.  Back to normal today with a steady 11 miles at 7:30 pace.

  • I've got 7 mins and change, I think last year the cut-off was 4 mins something so hopefully OK.

    Nice steady 11 there; can understand how 22 in the heat would have done you for the day - savage.

    10 for me today, a rare double outing with easy 4 in the early afternoon to loosen off, then 6 this evening with track - 2 x 1800s and 1 x mile. Did 6:34 for the first 1800, but down to 6:49 on the second which was a real struggle so stepped down to do a steady mile in 6:04. Not great but according to Strava at some point in the first 1800 I got my 1 mile PB, so every cloud.
  • Looks like I will survive August but no intention of catching up on the thread: too much to read back. 

    August was always going to be a challenge on the running front.

    The first week was a family holiday on the coast in Cornwall and that turned out OK: tides meant nobody wanted to get up early so I could get up and do my run before anyone else was up. The property we rented was at Trevose which is between two heads so I could run east (round to Padstow) or west (round to Constantine) on the coast path for about 6 miles and end up about 2 miles across the headland so that gave me 4 routes of 8 miles each so a bit of padding and I had my biggest week of 2019 with 48 miles.

    The next week was a work trip to Iowa City. It was hot and humid even at 5am (95% humidity!) but there was a good trail along a river so I got out each morning (and got backed soaked in sweat). Quick turn around for a holiday in Brussels and ended up the week with a Sunday long run in the Forêt de Soignes so basically Brussels south to Waterloo (take that you Frenchies) and back in the pouring rain.

    The rest of the week was shorter runs in Brussels (just loops of the same park as our apartment was near a park and everywhere else was just street running) and then over the Bank Holiday weekend I did the grown-up version of Dad's taxi moving two kids to new flats: one in Ashby-de-la-Zouch and one in Portsmouth so a short week of just 34 miles. 

    Now on 149 for the month and plans for 21 miles by end of Saturday will mean 170 miles and on target.

    Have plans to do Long Eaton parkrun Sep 7th which is flat and fast so will be a sub-20 attempt.
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭
    @SBD.- ;) I did fancy York but SS is a full 4 week training cycle back from York -

    @nicko1981 - its the full one, a couple of laps of flat in a very hilly area im told. Congrats on the PB

    Lorenzo - North Wales for me. I do like yorkshire though - good to get the green light off the physio

    Sessions are ramping up this end with a fair bit of quality blitzing my legs at the moment. 3 x 3 x 3 mins at 5k pace yesterday off 60 secs and 2.30 between sets proved to be a tough session as I fely just about ok yesterday but its consuming my legs now. Double recovery today to compensate :)

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    MsE said:

    Welcome back BB. I’m really sorry to hear you’ve suffered from anxiety and depression following the injuries benching you. I wonder whether the running kept symptoms at bay all this time or whether suddenly not running triggered the conditions? I do know there’s a high incidence of mental ill-health amongst the elite ultra-running community. I wonder if  the mindset of the extreme ultra-runner is commonly aligned with those dealing with mental health challenges. These are wide-ranging from anxiety and depression (Jim Walmsley) to eating disorders (Amelia Boone). I hope you are able to examine what’s underlying your challenges and emerge from it stronger and more content than ever. Perhaps more Badbark than Madbark, as has been suggested, may be the way forwards. My years away from running through various injuries (inc two ankle surgeries) has certainly led to much introspection and self realisation. What we all gain from running, whether or not there is a diagnosed mental illness, is a deeper meaning in life and I wish you lots of luck in coming back to it happier than ever. 

    Thanks very much for you kind and helpful comments. Thanks to everyone else too.
    Yes, I agree that running was keeping mental health problems at bay for a long time. I've struggled ever since I had the melanoma and hate my current job role. I've a few other life issues too. I think I was pushing myself so hard to help cover the cracks.
    However, I'm happy to say I'm well on the road to recovery now. I had 10 days relaxing days on holiday and I'm now back at work. I'm happy that the constant anxiety has finally lifted. I can now hold out my hand without it shaking!

    I'm still running about 30 miles a week with an additional marathon/50k every 3/4 weeks as my only long run. My pace is shocking with last weekends Parkrun over 21 minutes. Before I went on holidays I ran a local 50k finishing in 4:26 which is almost 1 hour outside my 50k PB. However, I was happy enough having targeted 4:30. I ran a negative split and took the win in a very small and uncompetitive field. I received another trophy for the collection. :)

    I look forward to keeping in contact with all the Sub315 threadies again!
  • Went to High Wycombe track today (well, Little Marlow actually) and di my regular 6x800m session and it came out very well with the average rep about 3:03 and my best previous effort was 3:08 so happy.

    If Sunday works out as planned I'll run out to the Maidenhead Half and do a lap backwards so may well wave at some of you as you pass.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    hello all - still an avid lurker . . .   
    just dropping by to say I leave the VoGit category today - how should I denote V65?   
    in my case, V.SloGit  fits, I think :)
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    Jools - making steady progress and nicely raced.
    Leslie - good progressive run there.
    Mennania - sounds like your legs will appreciate the recovery.
    SBD - you're churning out some great sessions - looking good.
    VTr - another solid long run.
    OO - hope you enjoyed the off-road running.
    Lorenzo - sounds like positive news from the physio though always a tough decision to pull out of a race. Hopefully you'll be on top form for London. The pool is 100m from where I work, but doesn't open till 6am (Mon-Fri, but later Sat-Sun). My routine has changed slightly though, so it fits in okay.
    nicko - good parkrun tourism. A shame about VLM, but hopefully Boston should be okay.
    PMJ - good holiday running. I remember camping near Padstow a number of years ago (can't remember where exactly now!) but always great to have the coastal path near by for early morning runs. Nice intervals too.
    Badbark - great to hear things are going much better now and even back on the podium :)
    Birch - HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! Do de-lurk more often. 
    Busy week here, but managed to fit in 11 miles on Monday and 10 today, plus 70 lengths of the pool on Tuesday.
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    HAPPY BIRTHDAY  to you, Birch:)  Keep on popping in to share your pearls of wisdom please.  

    Glad all is on the up, BadBark. I reckon we are living at a time when anxiety and depression are emerging through environmental factors as much as anything.  I read that the happiness quotient for the UK keeps falling so something is obviously going wrong.  You have done a sterling job addressing the melanoma and condition to be back in the game.  
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Great to hear from 2 of our heroes Badbark and Birch. Happy Birthday Birch and congrats on the new catagory. 
    My pal completed his BG over the hot bank holiday and set a new club record of 21:09- amazing.
    I have gone mad and entered the York marathon in October and the Malaga marathon in December (with my pal Jimbob from the Paris thread). I'm not taking either particularly seriously but will plan a first long run this Sunday.
    Meanwhile I did a 5k race last night in Gateshead. Tricky course and very windy so pleased with 18:10. Also got 1st V55 and the NE masters 5k road title. Not sure this 5k form will transfer to the marathon 🤔
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Happy Birthday Birch! Please pop in more often.

    Fantastic to hear that things are on the up Badbark. Looking forward to hearing of your adventures and journey to 100 marathons!

    OO - I think 5k form does transfer to the marathon, its just a case of adding the endurance on top. Certainly easier then converting endurance into speed!

    Some great training from SBD, Nicko, PMJ and others!

    Taper this week for Kenilworth Half on Sunday, legs are feeling pretty good so will be giving sub 80 my best shot. Had a good 3 weeks of training averaging around 57m a week. Some good sessions in there although last Saturdays long run didn't go to plan. Aim was 20m with 3 x 4m at 6.35-6.20 pace. Didn't hit a single mile at those paces and I was barely running 7mm by the end. I was out by 6.30 though which is early for me so that probably didn't help. Anyhow 20m at 7.30 pace is a decent run in the bank.

    Good luck SBD at Maidenhead on Sunday! Anyone else racing?
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Happy birthday Birch!

    Good luck to this weekend's racers. Anyone other than SBD?

    14 for me as my long run. I'm doing the Cardiff 10k but it's now downgraded to an untapered tempo run ahead of the Bristol Half in 2 weeks which I'm taking more seriously.
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Good luck in Cardiff Jools! Kenilworth Half for me, conditions are looking ideal
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    OO - congratulations on the title - great racing. And plenty more lined up too!
    Stevie - all the best at Kenilworth.
    Jools - good plan. I'm sure you can go sub 90 at the Bristol HM to bag your champs qualifier.
    35 min swim today. Hoping to get a run in tomorrow if I don't over sleep.
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Howdy folks. It's been a while since I stopped by. I'm not going to try catch up as it's been ages. I hope you're all ok?

    Happy birthday Birch. how are you keeping?

    All good here but very little running going on. I've decided this year is going to be an off year for me with very little racing. Just the odd parkrun, 5k here and there but that's probably it. I think the farthest I've ran in 2019 was a 10 miler. Anyway I'll stop by more often and see how you're all doing.

    MsE - Good to see you back. :)

    VTr - You too. :)

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