Sub 3h15

245671602

Comments

  • Welcome efc. Mistakes are what we specialise in. image

    A standard 5 mile shuffle for me this morning. Please to get out as I spent all last night searching high and low for my head torch. Found it in the boot of my 2 yr olds sit on car. I'm bringing up a right pair of magpies. Still got a bit of a cold, but think I will brave the Core session down at the tri-club anyway.

  • Can't imagine what it would have been like running in minus 20 up in Scotland this morning - it's still pretty chilly down south, although I managed with only one layer underneath my jacket and only one pair of gloves this morning.

    8.5 miles under the belt around 7:15/7:20 pace apart from the bits where I had to mince John Inman like over the icy patches on the pavements.

  • I'm so late moving over to the new thread that it was only when I read back that I realised anything had changed!
    Weclome KK and efc-col. I'll be pleased with sub 6hrs next year.
    I thought it was time to try some MP this morning and did 7 miles inc. 4.2 @ MP effort. Turned out slightly slower than planned at 7:21m/m, but I'm very pleased with that. Back to the extra slow stuff for now.

  • Welcome to efc and Kittenkat - glad to see some new faces amongst the (ugly) old regulars. Feel free to chip in with questions / advice / stories

    Nice to see TAR has brought the new place down to gutter level with a penis story in less than 30 posts - well done that man! image

    TR wrote (see)
     Got to say that your hoping to hit 55M for this week made me smile though, thats more than you did during marathon training.........it's only a matter of time......... 

    I was wondering if anyone would be eagle-eyed enough to spot that! Yes it may well be that I hit in the region of 56 miles this week and I've only done two weeks higher than that during the run-up to London this year. I guess this is the "layering" principle that Liz was on about: get the body used to x miles during one campaign, have a rest/take a break then go into the next campaign with slightly higher mileage,etc. Just stepping up the training bit by bit rather than going at it hammer and tongs from the beginning.

  • Matchstick Man wrote (see)

    ... then go into the next campaign ...

    And of course "campaign" is only ever used when we refer to a marathon campaign ...  You know you want to MM - just add yourself to the listimage

  • SteveC1975 wrote (see)

    I don't mind being the thread guinea pig (especially apt as I am on my fourth Krispy Kreme doughnut of the day (someone's birthday is the excuse)

    Will post up my excel file link or screenshots when I have had a chance to look at the P & D schedules.

    A few changes I am thinking about, the 20th Mar - Brentwood Half is to run that at HM Pace rather than at MP, but in the context of the training week, i.e. no taper etc, thoughts?Also, in Mid March onwards, I usually start my rides into work, this is about 16 miles each way, should I can them and wait until after VLM or use them as cross training, in the place of a recovery run?


    Steve - don't be afraid to have acut-back week at the time of the Brentwood HM. I'd say that for psychological reasons, running a HM at MP and finding it easy will be far more beneficial for you than running a HM at HM pace on tired legs. I'm / We're not coaching you, just giving you advice based on our experience so it's entirely up to you but if I were in your shoes I'd use that race wisely rather than training through it.

    16 miles each way into work and back is about an hour each way right? If I'm being honest I'd say leave it till after London and keep your training specific. However, taking a mental break and using the bike is a great way of keeping fit but mid-March (14th onwards?) is when you should be right in the middle of your heaviest training block so switching to a different type of aerobic exercise is not the best route to acheiving your goal. Would you want to do 32 miles for 5 days or is it just a couple of days a week?

  • So here we are then, a nice new sparkly uncorrupted thread. Let's see how long we take to drag it down - TAR has made a good start. Just don't anybody mention MM's hat!

    And welcome to the newcomers (although KK hardly counts in that regard). Jump in - we're a friendly bunch. There's plenty of inspiration to be found, just don't look at Race Jase's training times and take them as a guide!

    First hill session in ages for me last night, and boy did it show. I used to be quite good at hills - not any more! 6 x 4 mins with 90 secs rest, and we used a longer hill so 4 minutes was exactly twice up and down. Pleased to say though that my reps were pretty consistent, albeit with the uphills being rather slow. For some reason our club schedule has gone from hills once a month to about every 2 months, so I think I may have to start doing some on my own as I really need them. The blister on my foot stood up to it pretty well, which was good. A full sized compeed plaster, a different pair of shoes and the standard Nike footbed as opposed to my usual solid orthodtic footbeds and I barely felt it at all. Hopefully it'll be OK for a longer one on Sunday - a fast 7 on Thursday to try it out first.

    I was chatting to Santa last night, and he hinted that there may be a copy of the thread bible in my future.

  • Beware Of The Fish wrote (see)

    I was chatting to Santa last night, and he hinted that there may be a copy of the thread bible in my future.

    A year's subscription to Razzle?

    Set my alarm for 5 this morning to get a run in before work.  It was -5, so thought sod that for a lark, no bambi in the dark for me, and got back under the duvet.image

  • A bible for Xmas. Seems appropriate BOTF. Where did you find the large Compeed plaster from in the end? I tried my first one at the weekend, expecting a normal plaster and was a bit surprised in the evening to find a jellyfish body part stuck to my toe.

  • Might be tempted to join in. The old thread was so, like....yesterdayimage

    Although, 3.15 might be a stretch............. got room for a 3.20-3.25 kind of a girl with a (currently) dodgy back?

  • MM - there's no flies on me (unless I've been running in dog sh*t by mistake !). Your current mileage is all money in the bank. A few extra miles on your running commutes during the spring and you would have bagged a fair bit more anyway.

    For those looking to combine a regime of running and cross training, I've run the last 2 VLMs off a regime of tri training with 20M long runs on top (only ~3 runs/week), and although the bike and swim does help your aerobic fitness, there's no substitue for impact miles and I've found the marathons to be a struggle on legs that moan from very early on.

  • Seen Better Days wrote (see)

    Fingers - presumbly you mean 17-week schedule and what happened to week 18?  Hope you enjoyed the stridesimage

    SBD - gosh, thought I'd messed up my counting then from day 1... but no, indeed it is 17 weeks but there is a Week 0 at the end so kind of 18 weeks total.

    Anyhow, strides didn't happen last night. No sooner had I posted that I was about to leave than a panic at work ensued where work that was supposed to be done but wasn't. So yours truly was volunteered" to sort it out and didn't get out the office till late. Sulked all the way home that my campaign didn't get off to a good start. Am much more pragmatic about it today - there's a long way to go.

    MM - Very much enjoyed your "career summary" - so real knowledge and experience gained over the years and there's a lot there that a lot of us could take on board me thinks.

    Anyway, today P&D says I should be doing 11 miles, haven't decided if I rearrange to get yesterday session done or can yesterday and kick off with 11. Either way, I'll be doing either 8 with strides or 11 today.... I'm a sucker for punishment so probably end up with 11.

    Happy runnings y'all.

    Oh and I'll drop some x-mas decs by later to give us a bit of festive cheer.... or is it a bit early for that?

  • To be honest KK, this thread should be called 'Disciples of P&D. There are a few splitters / denominations, but generally we all worship the bible. Try this link for a peak at a 55-70 mile week.

    FINgers - Show us your baubles!

    edit to link to P&D rather than Razzle home page!

  • Sue C wrote (see)

    Might be tempted to join in. The old thread was so, like....yesterdayimage

    Although, 3.15 might be a stretch............. got room for a 3.20-3.25 kind of a girl with a (currently) dodgy back?

    Always!! Great to see you back on here. What have you been up to?

  • Sue C wrote (see)

    Might be tempted to join in. The old thread was so, like....yesterdayimage

    Although, 3.15 might be a stretch............. got room for a 3.20-3.25 kind of a girl with a (currently) dodgy back?
    We run a fairly broad church here sister - always room on the pews for people of any denomination be it the 2h5xm believers to the 3h2xm parishioners.
    Good to see you back on here - care to update the congregation as to what you've been doing recently?
  • There you all are.

    First night back, wife goes out and all my running buddies move!! Luckily I am not paranoid.

    Welcome KK and Col, welcome back Sue.

    Thanks for the post(s) MM, great read and lots of informative details.

    TAR Bad news on the knee, but the story did make my laugh. Hope for a quick recovery.

    My first run (shuffle) in the ice yesterday. Combination of ice and new shoes made it a most unenjoyable run. 5 miles recovery. Plan 8 miles steady today, hopefully it will easier now I know what to expect.

  • kittenkat wrote (see)

    And so, could someone point me towards a GOOD training plan. I've never actually used one before, I tend to just train ad hoc.

    I really want to do it properly this time, as I don't want to lose my champ place. Ta muchly!


    My views on plans are fairly well known but I'll reiterate them. I'm of the opinion that following a plan (be it FIRST / Higdon / P&D / RW) will be hugely beneficial as long as you stick to it closely. My success at going under 3h15 this year came off following the RW plan to the letter. I reckon that it really wouldn't have mattered if I'd followed P&D or any of the others, it was more the consistency over the 4 months that did it for me.
    As you allude, ad hoc and haphazard running won't be as great as regular running will be. You can create your own plan as I've shown Steve how to as long as you follow the basics every week:

    Long run (get in 5 x 20 milers)
    semi-long run
    practice your MP as much as possible (preferably within the above two runs)
    as much aerobic filler runs as you can do to make 40mpw your average mileage over 4 months

    I don't think you'll go far wrong with that and most of the plans follow that to some degree

  • A rare opportunity to join in on one of these from its birth is too good to pass up, even though I'm targetting 800m this year so don't really belong!  Maybe I part-qualify by virtue of my extended MP runs in base training though.
  • Moraghan wrote (see)
    A rare opportunity to join in on one of these from its birth is too good to pass up, even though I'm targetting 800m this year so don't really belong!  Maybe I part-qualify by virtue of my extended MP runs in base training though.
    It'd be great to have you on here Moraghan! The more knowledgeable souls on here the better.
  • Oof, me old bones...went out this Holiday morning (Día de la Inmaculada) and did 9m @ 7:24mm, trying (a bit too successfully) to go a bit slower and control the HR, which stayed at an av140bpm. Felt tired and was looking to get it over with as soon as possible. With a whole day to self-indulge, and bright wintry sun early doors, this should have been one of those runs where you fancy doing an extra 4-5m. Instead, it was a get-it-done-and get-home job. Not good.

    Welcome back, Sue!

  • Matchstick Man wrote (see)
    Moraghan wrote (see)
    A rare opportunity to join in on one of these from its birth is too good to pass up, even though I'm targetting 800m this year so don't really belong!  Maybe I part-qualify by virtue of my extended MP runs in base training though.
    It'd be great to have you on here Moraghan! The more knowledgeable souls on here the better.The more knowledge the better Moraghan - I know you know a lot of stuff so would be good to hear your input & perspective.
  • Hello new thread!image
  • MM - Just read back through your mammoth posts outlining your marathon history, and there is one thing that is bothering me a bit - Liz said to practise, practise, practise your MP as much as you can, no? This was more or less my approach, although I do realise it probably fatigued me more than I was aware of come the big day, hence not reaching my "potential potential" even though I did nail my planned objective.

    What exactly did she prescribe re running at MP?

    I still can't see how running slowly 90% of the time will suddenly transform itself into running 26.2 miles dead fast  *runs and hides from the wrath of the wise*

  • Ooo - thank you for the warm welcome back, I have a lovely warm glow nowimage

    What have I been up to? Mixed year to be honest. I ran 3.27 at Lochaber, which was a pb but it was a pretty poor conversion (although a negative split.... the holy grail!) and I still don't feel that I have yet  run a marathon that reflects the time that I feel I am capable of running.

    An odd summer, which went no-where really in terms of training or capitalising on marathon fitness and a change of coach in September (he is particularly grumpy, miserable and runs 800m as his specialism although is a fan of extended MP running.............................image)

    A good run from September, which saw big gains in fitness, mileage and missing out very narrowly on sub 70 at the Wistow 10 in October.

    Sadly, I have struggled since then with a back injury that I can't seem to shake off so I am rather grumpy and miserable myself today ,as I thought that I was improving but clearly not, if today's run was anything to go byimage

    So, I am eating my way through a large box of Marks and Spencer Extremely Chocolatey biscuits and have just entered Edinburgh Marathon, instead of Lochaber, which buys me 5 more weeks of rehab, where I am not running just to marathon train.

    Ant - waves! Maybe running slowly 90% of the time allows you to cope with a higher mileage than you would be able to otherwise and the associated benefits of that?

  • Ant van Oviedo wrote (see)

    MM - Just read back through your mammoth posts outlining your marathon history, and there is one thing that is bothering me a bit - Liz said to practise, practise, practise your MP as much as you can, no? This was more or less my approach, although I do realise it probably fatigued me more than I was aware of come the big day, hence not reaching my "potential potentail" even though I did nail my planned objective.

    What exactly did she prescribe re running at MP?I still can't see how running slowly 90% of the time will suddenly transform itself into running 26.2 miles dead fast  *runs and hides from the wrath of the wise*


    Hi, Ant. MM's mammoth posts make for very interesting reading. But I am also still slightly confused. I seem to remember when MM said to keep your slow runs slow and save your best for the fast runs that he said that none of his average paces started with a 7 i.e. 8min/mile + or sub 7min/mile. But unless MM was secretly targeting sub 3hr5, surely MP would be 7:xx min/mile? So where does practise, practise, practise MP fit into this? My understanding at the time, was that the fast stuff was to be tempo or faster. Sorry to be a nit-picker, but I think it would really help to understand this.

     Hi Sue C and welcome back.

  • Nice to have a few more people joining in with this thread.

    That sounds interesting, TR, about marathon running off 3 runs per week.  I'd be happy to settle for something like that in due course.  I know the FIRST programme has been referred to a few times, but does anyone here have any first-hand experience of using this schedule?

    Great to see Sue C checking in again.

    30 years today since Lennon was shot, eh?  Bloody blimey, 30 years.

  • Matchstick Man wrote (see)
    SteveC1975 wrote (see)
    I don't mind being the thread guinea pig (especially apt as I am on my fourth Krispy Kreme doughnut of the day (someone's birthday is the excuse)

    Will post up my excel file link or screenshots when I have had a chance to look at the P & D schedules.A few changes I am thinking about, the 20th Mar - Brentwood Half is to run that at HM Pace rather than at MP, but in the context of the training week, i.e. no taper etc, thoughts?Also, in Mid March onwards, I usually start my rides into work, this is about 16 miles each way, should I can them and wait until after VLM or use them as cross training, in the place of a recovery run?


    Steve - don't be afraid to have acut-back week at the time of the Brentwood HM. I'd say that for psychological reasons, running a HM at MP and finding it easy will be far more beneficial for you than running a HM at HM pace on tired legs. I'm / We're not coaching you, just giving you advice based on our experience so it's entirely up to you but if I were in your shoes I'd use that race wisely rather than training through it.

    16 miles each way into work and back is about an hour each way right? If I'm being honest I'd say leave it till after London and keep your training specific. However, taking a mental break and using the bike is a great way of keeping fit but mid-March (14th onwards?) is when you should be right in the middle of your heaviest training block so switching to a different type of aerobic exercise is not the best route to acheiving your goal. Would you want to do 32 miles for 5 days or is it just a couple of days a week?


    I will probably do the Brentwood HM at HM Pace after a cut down week then, and do some other specific MP training in blocks in the Long Runs.

    In regards to the cycling to work and back, I usually only do these when the weather is nice (yes, fair weather cyclist) they usually take me about 45-50 minutes when fit and I only ever do a max of four a week, usually 2 to 3. Might do one a week split by days, i.e. ride in one day and ride home the next.

    Feels strange being on a new forum thread, I like the lived in look of the old one!!

    Have got some type of lurgy at the moment, so attempted to run on treadie last night and got half a mile before my body just said no..  will give it a couple of days rest.

Sign In or Register to comment.