Sub 3h15

The Runner Formerly Known as Lorenzo

I'm with you TR - prob 23 three weeks out and then 20 two weeks out for me.

Just over 10 miles for me this morning in surprisingly chilly, but very attractive conditions. On the road but involved a couple of meaty hills.

DT19

I also tend to peak long run 3 weeks out so perhaps 22 with mixed paces then a 20 two weeks out. I seem to do quite big sessions as well until 10 days out, which I guess ties in with how long it is usually said for a session to show up in fitness. 

TR

Yes that's similar Lorenzo, although ive done 21 inc 13mp approx mp (13m as hard as possible on that day) 3 wks out before my last few marathons.

Fsir enough then Dawg, its important that you toe the line feeling cofident and prepared. Defo worth trying some other campaign, esp as youre a low mileage runner so dont have to taper from higher mileage/fatigue.

DT19

Done my biggest comeback session yet of 3 x 2m off 1 min. I always struggle with 2m reps and I think it is because I try to run them at 1m rep pace. Also I usually do them with 2 min recovery so 1 min was added brutality, particularly with a lot of wind about. 

Anyway, blocks came I'm  11.52, 11.57 and 11.53 so reasonably consistent. 

I think my body has finally got it's head around what I want it to do. So far, since I moved back to a reasonable training structure I've had various aches and pains down backs of both legs and lots of soreness in both hamstrings but it all suddenly appears to have calmed. 

Recovery run tomorrow and maybe 45 mins on the bike. 

G-Dawg

Cracking session there, DT. I'm totally with you on the hamstrings soreness.

Got a double day done yesterday with 8 trail miles in the morning and just under 6 steady last night.

Interesting chat on the 20 milers. I looked at my training plan and realised I'd miscalculated the training weeks. Looks like I'm doing another 20 miler this week! No wonder you chaps were questioning my last one being so far out! 

I've done four, so a fifth won't do any harm, my plan is to have more volume in this campaign anyway, plus it's a route I quite like and haven't done yet in this campaign. Just hope the head cold I seem to have developed doesn't get any worse.

Manchester number just arrived...

CC2 - Speedy Goth

Mine too G-Dawg. 

Sorry I've been AWOL. Life got busy and I cannot operate the forums on my tiny little phone screen. I blinked and missed nearly a whole month! 

I've only skim read the 68 posts I missed, but I spotted some good HM results and a storming 3.06 at Seville, so much kudos to the thread!

In among all the Weather I attempted a 5k road PB as mine is rather out of date. Sadly Storm Dudley joined me and I was nowhere even close. 19.03, although a cheeky women's race win since most people sensibly stayed at home. Going in to my HM I really didn't have any idea what shape I was in. Every session I'd done had been in awful weather. Race day wasn't perfect either. The second half was very exposed and I lost a big chunk of time running solo into the wind round a solar farm and HGV driver training ground on frankly awful surfaces. Loose stones, sand, cattle grids, pot holes, fish pond type stones at the start and finish... At least it wasn't hilly though. Anyway, 1.23.23 is a small PB (only good enough for 4th lady though, and 3rd lady was also a V40 so not even an AG prize for me this time). 

DT19

Well done on the hm pb and 5k prize speedy. Sounds like you did the Leicestershire half? Did it in 2020 and was hard work, as you say, for other reasons than elevation. 

Yeah, that sounds more like it, gdawg. 

Hope mine has landed then. 

I managed to bag a pair of the Nike streakfly this morning when they very briefly went on sale. Will give them a spin at midland Road relays. 

4m recovery first thing then 50 mins aerobic on spin bike over lunch. 

DT19

10k at my usual 160bpm type effort today came out 6.20mm for 157 so given the howling wind in many places, pretty happy with that. 

I'd like to have a go at one of these in neutral ish conditions just to get a real feel for fitness. 

TR

DT - agreed, id like to get a decent block of mp into a long run tomorrow or next weekend (ideally) and see where i think i am......those new shoes are 5k and 10k shoes ? No good for me as i havnt run a 5k in about 10 years and only do the odd 10k as a training race.......id been doing my weekly 3 min session in some tired  1080s, so cracked my 2nd (and last) pair of flynits out this week. Last yr i did my sessions and mp runs in the 1st pair, got about 800m out of those as the cushioning was still decent even when the pop had gone.

DT19

Tr, I've got 2 x 4m at mp in my long on Sunday. 

I've got the Rd relays in 2 weeks so thought they'd be good for that, plus they were relatively cheap and I'll use them for my weekly intervals. 

TR

DT - if you use them then crack on, i tend to not use them enough......i did 8 easy, 13.1 approx mp +10%, which i did 4 wks before vlm. Identical av and max HR but av 7.23 today compared to 7.13 back then for the 13m. How much of the 10sec is due to lots of running into the wind and how much is due to lost fitness is the question......hopefully it'll be still for next weekends 13m mp as thats my fitness indicator.

OO54

Been following you on Strava Speedy- you are still in great shape, that half mara time a good indication 👍
Another near miss at parkrun 18:18 today with strong winds in Blyth. Easy 17 tomorrow for a 60 week plus 4 swims.
As you say DT I think the body eventually yields to the demands you put on it like a lazy horse 😉

Big_G

DT, I picked up a pair of Streakflys too.  They arrived yesterday and they seem very light so I am looking forward to giving them a go at some point.

G-Dawg

I didn't ser the Streakfly offers. Well done. Looking forward to the reviews.

Got the final 20 miler done yesterday and a 5 recovery today to bring up 60 for the week. Second 60 of the campaign, again, new volume records for me.

I've never, not once been able to do MP miles during a long Saturday morning run, my legs just won't let me. It's really weird. Well done to those that did, impressive stuff.

Legs did actually feel quite strong yesterday but very tired at the same time. My fitness indicator is the HM PB a couple of weeks ago. I'm just hoping that a good taper brings about the body adaptations that come with rest and that 6.4x pace on the day feels comfy.

TR

OO - 60 plus 4 swims is good going

Big G - are the shoes for a shorter distance focus for a while after your 100?

Dawg - thats cos you used to spend most of the rest of the week a smidge away from mp. Its about your training paces being black or white and keeping the easy easy and saving any effort for the key runs. You were focussing more on this recently.

Big_G

G-Dawg, I was on the Nike and Sportsshoes site at bang on 8am on Thursday when they were released. They sold out very quickly as at about 8:01 I didn’t get a pair, but I kept trying and after about 90-mins I got them, presumably after some orders had failed to go through.

TR, yes, I want to get the 100 out the way and I’d love PBs at 5K and 10K. We shall see though because as I’m typing this I’ve picked up a niggle, so I’ve turned back to Zwifting on the bike this week (11hrs of riding this week, and only 1hr of running). 

DT19

Tr, yes it's never quite clear what the wind takes from a pace. 

Big G, I was furious I had no notification of the release from nike, I have them for many things I'm not interested in. I looked on the app by pure chance about 9.30 as I've been keeping an eye on them and could see there'd been a drop but my size had gone. However from experience, nike will drop a load back in that didn't complete so kept refreshing app and landed a pair 30 mins later. They feel much more like a classic race shoe, very light and low profile, just with a bit of a spring. 

Gdawg, you're at the peak of the campaign so shouldn't necessarily expect to bounce through things. 

Oo, decent week there. 

18m mixed pace long today, 8m easy then 2 x 4m at mp off 1m then 1m cd. Again, the wind seemed to be hitting me almost every direction I ran. The two mp blocks averaged 6.23 and all Miles were 6.20-6.25. 

54m and 3 workouts in that so the start of a meaty period now to MK mara. 

Big_G

DT, sportsshoes emailed a week prior saying 8am Thursday. I didn’t hear anything from Nike, but the release date/time was the same as sportsshoes. I also wonder if they were trying to spot/block multiple orders as after the prototype release, quite a few pairs ended up on stockx. Regarding wind, Stryd makes interesting viewing after a tough run in the wind, as it calculates air power. 

CC2 - Speedy Goth

Afternoon folks. Twice in one week, this is a record for me lately! No Nike's of any description for me. They just do not fit my feet. I'm saving my Adidas Adios Pros for the marathon so I wore my Endorphin Pros for today's Oundle 20. A re-run of the same session I did in August there in the build up to London, but for some reason my coach wanted me to run the first 10 slower. Initially he said outside of 8s, and I talked him down to 7.45s. My normal LSR pace is more like 7.30s. Of course (as always!) the first few miles are downhill and with a tailwind. I felt like I was shuffling along and things started to hurt that don't normally hurt. The top of the course had a mighty crosswind that kept blowing me off my line, but at least I was able to move up to MP at 10 miles and felt like I was actually running rather than shuffling. Until I got to mile 14 and the crosswind became a headwind. There was one small section of crosswind again around mile 18, but otherwise all headwind (and from 15 onwards all uphill) until the last tiny little bit of flat and tailwind (200m max!)

I was slower than August, but then I deliberately ran the first half slower. And there wasn't anything like that much wind in August either. So again I'm scratching my head and wondering what kind of shape I'm actually in! 

How does Stryd calculate air power? What does that data look like? I sometimes wonder if I'm just being a wuss, so it would be good to know if the wind is as bad as I think it is! 

Big_G

Speedy, here is a 7-mile run with 2 miles (mile 5 and 6) at MP, in the wind. 

The first pic shows the 5th and 6th miles (3.89-6.09 miles) and you see my power and the air power, although admittedly this may not look that spectacular at 2% air power. 


The second is zoomed in further (approx 36mins - 37:30 of the run), again showing my power and the air power (the grey shading on the graph), but with the screenshot also showing the map of that section that I have zoomed in on.  On the graph you can see how it is trying to show the wind, and on the map that corresponds exactly to where there is basically a strong head wind through what is effectively a wind tunnel, and is exactly where the wind is worse on that lap (at 36:39 where the cursor is, it is showing 9% air power there, meaning 9% of my power was being used purely to overcome air resistance).   I train using HR but what I find is that if I run to power, it will have me running a bit harder on the uphills and somewhat easier on the downhills at a certain power, which I find interesting.


How it actually works technically I don't know, except to say the device has sensors on/in it that calculate the air power.  I haven't made the most of it really, but I just like the extra data because I am a geek  Stryd has training plans based on power, but I have not tried them.  It can also tell you what power to aim for at a given distance on a given course (taking account of undulations etc), but again I have not tried this in a race.  Basically, similar to cycling FTP (which the vast majority of keen cyclists use), it works out power zones and produces a power curve based on the training that you do.

CC2 - Speedy Goth

Hmm, very interesting. And you get real time feedback on your Garmin do you? 

Pleased to note the organiser's email with the link to the results also described the headwind in the last six miles as 'brutal', so it's not just that I'm a wimp!

Big_G

Yes, you can display Stryd data fields on the Garmin.  I haven't tried it but I don't think you can display Air Power separately so you can only look at that in detail afterwards I think, but if you are running to a certain power output, you can see your power figure (and the corresponding power zone) on the Garmin as data fields in real time.  So if you want to run at say 300W and you're into a head wind, in theory you could adjust effort to keep the 300W constant through the headwind.  There is also a Stryd workout app for the Garmin, so again if you wanted to do intervals to power there is a separate app for that, which can be installed on the Garmin (I haven't used this).  I think people were hoping that Garmin would introduce native running power support on watches in the recent updates (so removing the need for a separate app for workouts), but they haven't as yet.  I do know people who swear by it and have dived right in and run to power even in races etc, but I haven't moved away from HR training as I am still getting improvements from that (I don't run to HR in races or sessions).  I have noticed that the power figures update pretty much instantly if I have a change of pace/effort, in comparison to HR which does have a lag.  

I am glad I have got it as I do like the data it provides, but I haven't jumped fully onboard with it yet, and at this stage I am still not sure that I will (I have had it about 5 months).  It is strange though as when on the bike/Zwift, I ride to power pretty much exclusively and only have a cursory eye on my HR, but with running it is still the other way around for me.

Joolska

On a windy day I'd just worry about perceived effort: as long as you were working at about the right level, you've gained the training benefits.

Sidelined by Covid this end, which is a bit annoying, as I was supposed to be coming out of retirement to do 100 miles in 2 weeks (my chambers is collectively covering the distance from Bristol to Kyiv).  It will also probably mean our holiday (due to fly on Saturday) is off.  Heigh ho!

OO54

Sorry to hear that Jools hope you don't feel too bad. I'm in the Lakes for a few days. Ticking over nicely but not much to report here. 

DT19

That's a shame, jools, I hope you aren't too unwell. The last week or so has felt a bit like December again with so many friends and kids at the school going down. 

Enjoy the lakes, oo. After yesterday you should now be in for a pleasant few days. 

I've had a decent week with 5m recovery Monday then spin, 10m easy Tuesday then spin then 6 x 1m yesterday off 1 min with reps at 5.53, 5.51, 5.51, 5.54, 5.57 and 5.54. It was nice not to be blasted by wind but I was utterly drenched. 

5m recovery before work. Looking forward to tomorrow's 8m tempo in neutral conditions now. Weight coming back down, 3lb over my London weight now so all in hand with 7 weeks to go. 

G-Dawg

Nice going, DT.
Enjoy the Lakes, OO.
Sorry to hear about the Covid, Jools.

Lost the first two days of the week to having a stinking cold. Had it all last week but it really hit the front this week with a sore throat, sneezes and a bonus cold sore. Negative results on the LFTs. it's not on the chest at all, resting HR remains in the mid to low 40s, so it looks like just a regular heavy head cold.

Managed to get a 6 in last night and an 8 this morning, no quality just chasing miles in a total snot-fest.
I guess this is an enforced taper week despite usually only doing two weeks.

Plan is to keep plodding and hopefully get a final quality session around 10 miles next Wednesday or Thursday before the usual cliff-edge mileage drop for the body to recover and hopefully adapt to what I've put it through.

Joolska

Still more like a bad cold/mild flu than anything awful, so just a lot of sneezing and generally tired, achy, etc.  Amazingly, Mr. Jools still feels fine, so one of us might get to go on holiday at least (he's the keen skier out of the two of us, so it's only fair that he does get to go if at all possible).  A combination of his clearly superior immune system and my sequestration in the lounge with a window permanently open.  Thankfully, feline hot water bottles have been available regularly!

DT19

Hope you make the holiday, jools. Good that you're OK for Mr jools to crack on with the trip instead of staying home to look after you. 

Take East gdawg. The work is largely done for you and it isn't a dreadful time to get ill as you'll be good for Manchester. 

10.5m over lunch with 8m at my 160bpm effort. Nice not to have wind but got a bit warm last couple of miles. The 8m came out at 6.16 for 162bpm with first half average 6.21 then 2nd half 6.11. 

Another big one pending Sunday with 20m with 2 x 5m at mp. 

OO54

Strange week here with a few days in the Lakes so  no swimming but plenty of easy runs. 18:13 at parkrun so another near miss. 19 tomorrow would get me to 70, the highest in my Boston campaign. 
Good luck tapering Manchester guys. Cotton wool time 👍

DT19

Big run today to round off my biggest week in ages. 8m easy then 2 x 5m at mara pace off 1m then 1m cd. The mara blocks averaged 6 25mm then 6.21mm and 7.09mm for the 20m overall. 

That's 60m for week with three sessions plus 3  spin classes.