Sub 3h15

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  • I definitely find mornings preferably to evenings, which I need for time with my wife after the kids are in bed too! Getting a good night's sleep and waking up fresh in the morning works much better for me. But I still haven't figured out how to fit in a mid-week MLR in a morning.
  • Keir wrote (see)

    However realising I can consistently do this sort of weekly mileage is making me think whether I should reconsider the 'up to 55m' plan I had cobbled together for my A target HM (and carry over to B target Marathon 6 wks later) and give a up to 70 plan a go. But that is a lot of running image

    Marathon training is a lot of running, but the dark art is finding enough time to be consistent, so if you can be consistent up to 55m per week, you'll still see improvements.  When does your 18 week programme start? I believe the P&D 55-70m per week plan assumes you are running upto 55 miles per week consistently before the programme starts anyway.  Which isn't too far off what you are doing at the moment, but as it has more of a structured emphasis (key workouts) so it may be slightly more taxing.  

    I'll leave the doubles to the "spirited drinkers" on this thread, squeezing in enough time for one run is problematic enough.

    KK, Getting up @4.30 to run.....Sod that.

    Joolska, CPD on a weekend...double sod to that.

    Just an easy 11.75m for me to report for last night @8:10mm, with a bit of mincing across the icy patches.

  • I sent my Championship entry last week so I'm hoping I'll get a response soon...  I'll call them end of next week if no reply.
  • Gul Darr wrote (see)
    I definitely find mornings preferably to evenings, which I need for time with my wife after the kids are in bed too!

    Is it only me that has the theme to Shaggy's 'Mr Bombastic' going on in their head after that disclosure from Gul.  "Mr Lover Lover....."

    Sorry Gulimage.

  • Part of the point of doubles is to maximise the mileage you are safely capable of so the 2 * 5m or 1 * 10m comparison partly defeats the object of it.  Doubles would probably enable a 5m + 7 - 8M as opposed to a 1 * 10m.  It is also a quicker way than singles of safely ramping up mileage in my opinion.

    It also further facilitates the mantra of make your hard days hard and your easy days easy by using an early run to increase the volume of a quality day (and it will usually reduce the RPE of a later quality session) and increase volume by splitting runs on an easy day.   

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭
    Windy wrote (see)
     When does your 18 week programme start? I believe the P&D 55-70m per week plan assumes you are running upto 55 miles per week consistently before the programme starts anyway.  Which isn't too far off what you are doing at the moment, but as it has more of a structured emphasis (key workouts) so it may be slightly more taxing.  
    3rd Jan = start of 12 week HM programme (Paddock Wood HM is the A goal). This is a doctored P&D programme which I have adpated for the HM. However within that I am keeping LSRs Long (actually starting 20 milers earlier than the plan). I am then bolting on another 6 week plan to do a Maraton, which is the B goal.
  • Moraghan -

    We had a debate recently on the value of splitting a long run over two sessions - what's your view on this? And could you count 2*7m the same as the mid-week long run which P+D prescribe?

    And is there a lower limit of miles for doubles below which it is just not worth putting the trainers on?

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    When I first started this a few years ago, I was an evening runner and would set out sometime after 7:30pm when the kids were ready for bed. I remember getting back at 10pm sometimes after a midweek 13 or 14M. As my nippers have got older and have become involved in more sports of their own (esp all the cricket in the summer), I have had to switch to morning training otherwise I wouldn’t get any done. I much prefer morning training now and even a 20M on a work day is easily achieved (you just get up a bit earlier), its much easier to bag miles in the morning than it is in the evening cos you don’t have the “I should really be doing something else” feeling lurking over you, and there’s no chance of having the training slot taken away by work/life/family stuff.

    If you cant get up early (sometimes at least) to bag some training then you just don’t want it bad enough. Early morning training is less visible to the SPO too, and as I don’t have any club sessions to attend I’m never “missing” in the evenings cos of my sports. Most folks will end up doing morning training if they want to be in this for a long time and not rock the family boat esp as the kids get older.

  • Had to have a chuckle at your post Windy - def have a mental image of Gul as some super smooth player givin' out his sweeeet lovin' to the ladeeez. Lucky old Mrs Gul eh !

    What a pants run I've just had. Started later than I intended and it got dark on me much quicker than expected. Got outside but only safe option was mincing along the gutter between the lorries and the ice. Started to feel all a bit unsafe and like a disaster waiting to happen Plan had been 4 easy/ 2 steady/5 MP. Foolishly set off far too quick and realised during mile 7 there was no way MP was going to happen in those conditions. Bollocks.Canned it after 7 but too fast to really be anything of use. Will do the MP session on the mill tomorrow. Oh well. Can't all be good days I suppose 

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Jools - CPD (and time sheets) are two things I definitely do not miss!

    Moraghan - I am appreciating your succintly put point of view and hope to benefit from your advice on here.

    TR - can we talk about how you are approaching your HIM training please? Are you using a book? Are you fitting in marathon training as well as or instead of it? Looking for advice from you as an experienced triathlete!
  • I’m very much in the run early camp too. I’m currently getting up at about 4:45am and out the door by 5am on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday for a 40- 45 minute run of either intervals, tempo or easy. The run puts me in great mood for the rest of the day and its nice coming home from work knowing I can put my feet up for the night.

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    I can't do mornings and can't do evenings so I'm experimenting with lunchtimes at the momentimage

    Keir - If the HM is your focus I wouldn't push the mileage too high -  focus on getting the tempo and interval sessions done instead.

    9 miles for me at lunchtime.  Despite being a nice day I went for the treadmill option - my excuse was a slightly niggly inside knee.  It was meant to be P&D aerobic (I'm following week 1 as preparation for week 1!) but I reigned back the speed a little to just over 8:00 m/m pace.

    Sports massage afterwards to sort out the niggly knee.  Hopefully caught it in the budimage

  • A.C wrote (see)

    Moraghan -

    We had a debate recently on the value of splitting a long run over two sessions - what's your view on this? And could you count 2*7m the same as the mid-week long run which P+D prescribe?

    And is there a lower limit of miles for doubles below which it is just not worth putting the trainers on?

    I would try and keep the MLR and LR as single continuous runs (fat utilisation and fibre recruitment), but see nothing wrong in theory, with a short second run on the MLR day.

    2nd question - every run has a purpose and including the determination of general duration / intensity.  So I'd make sure you achieve the core purpose of each primary run and then think about adding in more runs or more mileage to existing runs. Not sure if that makes sense.....

    E.g.  If I feel the following is necessary:

    12m w / 8m @MP

    20m long

    14m Medium long

    10m w / 10 * 1k @ 10k pace.

    Then I can slot in runs around that wherever I feel like - doubles, longer cd / wu etc with the goal of maximising mileage whilst recovering adequately.

    If you feel the following is necessary

    6m w / 3m @ MP etc.... then you'd be considering second runs at a much lower mileage with it still being a valid strategy.

  • Windy - I am making a habit of putting my foot in my mouth this week! Best not to say anymore or I'll dig myself a deeper hole. In any case, the kids should be going to bed soon...
  • I can't/don't/won't do weekday mornings. No chance. No way Jose. Bugger off. I NEED my bed. I'd have to be back by 6am to get to work so it would be at sleep o'clock, and that's not happening!

    Weekdays I train straight after work and get home anywhere between 7pm and 9.30pm depending on the session. I have no family to give a toss whether I'm in the house or not. OK, the cat might care a bit, but not that much, she's mostly asleep anyway.

    Weekends I'll do mornings, sometimes I'll even start my run before 8am if I have a shift in the shop later on.

    Doubles - did some on Saturdays when training for the Thunder Run. They made my very tired and I detested them. Doubt I'll bother again!
  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Just managed to borrow a treadmill from a friend at work. Bought with best laid plans, yet probably not seen more than 5 miles of useage over 2 years.

    Managed to get it out of her house and into my car, after removing the back seats, but couldn't get it through our front door and have a tight back passage to our cottage. After using allen keys, adjustable spanner and old knackered cycling spanner I finally was able to take the thing apart just enough for my wife and I to carry it through to the cold conservatory. Then dropped it on my foot and now have bruising image

    But it means I can run on snowy days. Also looking forward to using it for specific target speed sessions.

  • ok here goes
    hi to all the professionals in the 3.15 thread which in have avoided of late as you are all too scary and serious
    but i'm now listening in and hoping that your pearls of wisdom will catapult me to sub 3.15 greatness in the spring ...
    so hi to you all image
  • moraghan - im going to follow your plan next week


  • Serious? Us lot? Read back a bit, especially all posts by Windy. Not a lot of seriousness on here! Scary? Well, maybe. RJ is scarily fast. Lots of folks get out of bed scarily early, and I'm a goth, so therefore must be scary.

    Come and be scary and non-serious with us image

    Keir - ouch!
  • Cool. give me 10 mins - i'm starting at the beginning image
  • wow- ok sped read it all
    wish i could run that fastimage
    have downloaded Kiers plan - the RT one and will start tomorrow am as i've only got an old VLM one which is crap
    have never done 2 workouts on same day so that will be interesting
    i did this for the ist time at the super six bootcamp on sat and bombed spectacularly so clearly i'm not used to it
    need to get speedier - i tend to do all workouts at same pace and only loose a few seconds as miles increase so i'm clearly not pushing myself enough
    thanks for the info guys
  • moraghan - im going to follow your plan next week


  • Welcome Jane - hmm, "serious" is not a word bandied around here too often

    Keir - sounds like the one when Stan & Ollie are removal men and have to take that piano downstairs, with  truly hilarious consequences.  image 

    Scammed a good one today - found a flyer from a local "health club" on the doormat offering a free intro day. So spent  a few relaxed hours in the state of the art gym (8m on the treadie image) then a fab sauna. And all for free! It is apparently priced at  £54 a month, did they set that figure on April 1st? The pathetic thing was that the bloke on the adjoining treadmill was doing a paltry 11kpm so I childishly ramped mine up to 20kph for a short and painful blast. Really shallow.  But  it had to be done.  image

    Running indoors is a bit odd though.

  • Funny image
    I know what you mean
    i dont like the gym
    my local one is full of orange bodybuilders showing off their pecs
    much prefer running outside but if its snowing a nice freebie sauna and work out whilst watching the news is a winner image
  • News - yes, Eamonn "we've run out of lard, have another bag of chips" Holmes - no.
  • love that sketch when he eats the table
    have you seen that image
  • Hello Jane  - you see that wasn't so hard was it ! Glad you've taken the plunge and chosen to dive in. If you can bear some stats can you remind us what you're up to mileage and paces -wise in training these days ??

    Keir - nasty incident there with an outsize piece of equipment in your tight back passage necessitating the extra large spanner. Glad your more modern tool came to the rescue though - beat you to it Windy

    Poacher - of course you have to take a sly peek at your neighbour's treadie speed then ramp yours up 5% above his/hers. It's gym law. Knowing you you'll soon be proposing some nutter treadmill ultra event though to compete with that fella who ran for 7 days in a shopping centre for charidee

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Poacher - I did a similar thing when I went to a spinning class run by the local tri club (you'll know the one).  I almost died!

    I see Keir and others are gearing up for treadmill training in light of the current weather.  I've dusted mine down and downloaded an audio book in preparation. 

  • Hello Jane - you see that wasn't so hard was it ! Glad you've taken the plunge and chosen to dive in. If you can bear some stats can you remind us what you're up to mileage and paces -wise in training these days ??


    Hi Fraser! i noticed you were scottish so you must be snowed in! my whole family are up there and i hear its a nightmare...

    have been running for i year (from scratch)

    did london last april in 3.54
    then loch ness in oct in 3.33
    did NY on 7th Nov in 3.26 and consistent av of 7.50 ish until the maybe the last few miles...

    i usually do core stuff on a monday
    track day on a tuesday at the local club (400 repeats) am crap at this BTW
    8 miles on wed (av 7.45 -8)
    off thurs
    8 miles Friday (av 7.45 -8)
    6 miles sat (av 7.45 - 8) then 2 miles of hills
    long run on sunday (10 miles plus in increments of 2 the closer to the day i get) - all at marathon pace (7.45 - 8) and try not to slow down

    its all a bit random i know !!!!

    i need to inject a bit of pace - ive been told....image
  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Hi Jane, running 3.33 in LN and then 3.26 a few weeks later at NY is impressive stuff. You must have been pretty tired at the enod of it all.

    Did you pretty much follow your plan above to train for that? It sounds as if you are pretty good endurance wise, What are your longest runs leading up to a marathon?

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