Sub 3h15

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  • Thanks all for the advice re long runs. I am going to try aim for 5 20+ milers and see if that helps me succeed in what will be a tough marathon. The course is not flat if anything quite the opposite with an uphill section from mile 3 to 10 with 300ft of gradual ascent. I am planning on running alot of hills in the next couple of months.

    Frazerelli - I am attempting to do my 2nd marathon after my shambolic debut at VLM this year. A goal is 3:0x B is sub 3:15 and C would be a PB. I am not the quickest runner but I struggle trying to run anything over 8mm. Maybe I should try to run alot slower but between 7:45 & 7:5x seems very comfortable to me.

    Minni - Nice racers! When is your next 10k assault?

    Gul - Sorry to hear about your redundancy, may I ask what line of work are you in? Good luck with the interview!!

    Bike It -  Good news re your running, maybe that's you on your way back??

  • GM- the vast majority of my runs rarely go above 8m/mile and I usually plod along on my long runs at about 8.15 pace, maybe upping the last few to MP + 10% P&D style.

    I think time on your feet is more important than the speed early on in a marathon campaign.

    Although I still cop my fair share of injuries even when I just plod.
  • Moof - image

    Gul - sorry to hear that.  I hope it all works out for you.

    Gerard - I now do about 9  20+ milers in a marathon campaign.  Most of these are just at an easy pace but with some MP miles in the last month or so.  This time round most of these were 8:30+ m/m and a couple around 9 m/m due to the hilliness of my runs and the weather conditions.    I'd say you certainly need to slow down.  You said your 16 last week felt really easy but you flagged in the last couple of miles.  If you'd slowed down then this probably wouldn't have happened.  I have a habit of running the last few miles of a long run faster - partly because I just want it over with!  But this is better than running the first few too fast then flagging.  Remember the long runs are about building your endurance; there's plenty room for speed in other sessions.   I also do a couple of duration runs where I run for 3:15 and these tend to come out at about 22-23 miles.

    What went wrong in London?

  • Hello all,

    Once again I feel like I post on here with reasonable frequency, but in fact ages pass between one and the next. I have been continuing to lurk though.

    As my second marathon draws nearer I wondered if I could pop in a bit more frequently?

    Just thought I'd quickly congratualte AR on his scary session this weekend, and his sub 3 treadmill marathon. I particully liked the fact that despite a treadmill allowing you to set an actual 2.59 pace you still ran several minutes under your target.

    Have had a reasonably productive July- this afternoons run should take me to about 250miles for the month with 9 runs of half marathon or longer.

    Have had to start doing all my runnning early in the morning lately, and find that I have no speed at all- partly I suspect that its the volume of training deadening my legs, but also the early mornings must play a part- does anyone else find they cant do much more than plod that early (I'm out running less than 15 mins after I wake up)

  • Moof - I now run with compression shorts as to avoid such incidents.

    Gerard - +1 for minnis and moofs  advice. P&D say MP +20% to MP+10% for lsrs which for a 3.10 marathon would be 7.15mm plus 20% (8.44mm) +10% (7.59mm). I am guessing they appear quite pedestrian to you.

  • xpost JD3 - I struggle to do anything above MP early doors personally irrespective of training volume.

  • Mennania wrote (see)

    Gerard - +1 for minnis and moofs  advice. P&D say MP +20% to MP+10% for lsrs which for a 3.10 marathon would be 7.15mm plus 20% (8.44mm) +10% (7.59mm). I am guessing they appear quite pedestrian to you.

    +1 (or is that +2 or even +3 now?). I like to follow instructions obsessively so I used these exact paces when marathon training (the slower pace for the first 10 miles and the faster one for the rest) and could always then speed up to MP for the last couple of miles, Minni-style.

  • JD3- for intervals, I nicked this from Frazer which definitely helps to warm up before the fast runs early doors.

    At least a 3 mile warm up, plod for the first couple and then build up to MP, then do a few sets of strides to rev the engine.

    If I don't do this the first couple of reps are below par.
  • Thanks again All.

    Minni - 9 x 20+ milers is alot and I've only got 8 weekends left before the week of my marathon. But I have been following individuals training methods on here now for the past 8 months or so and you seem to cope well with the heavy mileage. I am not so sure my body would cope as well but I will give 5 a crack and see if that gets me there. I totally understand what you are saying re the benefit of the LSR being slow and that it helps build up your endurance but I just find it hard to run 8mm+ pace. My training partner is a 3:17 marathon and she is similar in that she knocks out long runs at about 7:5x pace. Last 16 miler I did, I think the reason I flagged a bit was that it was really warm and I felt dehydrated, didn't take any gels or any sports drinks etc and I may have overcooked it on the wine front two nights before. Need to behave myself or I will suffer on my 20 miler this w/end! Re VLM - I got really bad cramps in my calves the day before, so much so that I was unable to walk but went ahead with it as I travelled over and I didn't want to be a DNS. I was useless from the off as the legs didn't want to know but managed to finish it and was glad I took it easy.

    Menn - Yes, you're right, even though I am nowhere near as speedy as yourself I do find it pedestrian. I did a 1:32 half recently and that felt like a fast jog, but that was one of those good days.

    Gul - I made the decision to change my career 7 years ago and haven't looked back since.

  • Gerard - I get what you're saying about your running partner but you have to look at what's best for you.  I ran 3:15 off running the lsr much slower.   When I do the long runs with others we discuss before the start what we aim to do then usually run the first 10 or so together and then span out at our own paces before regrouping at the end.

    I cope with long runs well and start with 20's right from the word go so have plenty of time.  I'd say you definitely need 5 in there and I challenge you to make the first one 8:30 m/m!   What I sometimes do is try and run each mile just a few seconds faster than the previous one.  This makes sure I start off slow otherwise I fail in the task. image

    Why do you think you got bad cramps the day before VLM?

     

  • Minni - hah I will meet you halfway and aim for 8:15mm!

    Have to go to a boring work meeting now but will tell you about my calf issue in a bit. Hopefully the tedium won't last too long!

  • Haha you're on!

    Another good tester is to run 10 miles easy then 10 miles at MP. I think if you can do this that its another confidence boost for the big day but if you can't then you perhaps need to adjust your MP.

  • I prefer to run my LSR alone as on the odd occasion I've run with someone else the pace starts to creep up.

    Good for mental strength as well, running alone and no ipod.
  • How I stayed conscious throughout that I will never know. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

    Minni - I like a challenge! I will try that 10/10 one, I like the sound of it. This 2nd crack at the mara is a big test for me as I am not even sure if I am suited to long distance running so there's a fair bit riding on the end product. Please do tell me when you're next mara is and what's the goal? The calf story is not all that interesting, but here goes. I visited a sports masseur who is a very experienced runner herself and she said my calf muscles were in a bad way and was suprised I hadn't been injured since I started out running 2 years ago. My calves are quite big and she put that down to 20 years of playing alot of football, they were basically rock solid and I suffered alot of cramps in the build up to London especially after short distance races, so I decided to have a sports massage 5 days before London. It was excrutiatingly painful but they felt amazing in the days leading up to it and then for some unforseen reason they totally seized up when I left the expo. I was stranded in St.James's park later that day barely able to walk! So as you can imagine I was relieved to be able to finish the thing albeit very slowly. Someone suggested that big match nerves might have played some part but I am not convinced as I knew there was some underlying issue and going from rocks to jelly and then they seized up again. I am a midfoot/forefoot runner so that maybe contributes as well. Thankfully they are ok now! I won't be having a sports massage so close this time round either....

    Moof - I would say I have done half my LSR's solo but that's worse as I tend to go even quicker. Did a 15 miler at 7:15 pace which felt ok but probably way too quick for a trining run. I have never run with music, not my thing I like to be aware of what's going on and take it all in.

  • The real question, Minni, is...after your big one in London this year, what's the target next time out?

    Gerard - It takes a few maras to get the hang of the event, in fact one learns something every time, bear with it and it will come right

    Weather check for cricket fans: about 20m from Old Trafford and it's raining like it's never going to stop.

    10m D&D

  • That is tough luck about the calves Gerard. Have they felt better this time?  Compression socks, although hideous are good for recovery.

    My next marathon will be London 2014 and the target will be set in March 2014!!!

    I agree with Poacher in that you learn something every time.  I've run about 13 now and learnt something new every time, sometimes from mistakes and sometimes from things that go right.

    12 miles D & D

  • +1 for the "you learn something new every time" comment. VLM 14 will be no. 14 for me (I think) and I still haven't got it spot on but being a eternal optimistic, I'm hopeful of cracking it for next year.

    4.5 or so miles this morning, bringing my July total to a slightly lopsided:

    Miles running: 60

    Miles cycling: 412

    On my way up to the Dales at the moment to accompany a work colleague on a sponsored walk as well as celebrating Yorkshire Day tomorrow.

  • I've done 33 and still haven't a clue.... image

    Nice bike miles, arise Sir Lorenzo Wiggins

  • Poacher - I am at old Trafford for a very relaxing day on Saturday - can you please have a word and sort the weather out? don't want my beer diluted whilst I am watching the saes smash the ausies!

  • I didn't realise you lot were so experienced with all those marathons, 13, 14, 33! eh, how about 2.



    I'm looking forward to the cricket as it's always nice when we give the Aussies a good bashing.



    3 uncomfortable miles home tonight, legs mashed from the morning run but that wasn't why it was uncomfortable. I'll spare you any more details.



    209 miles running and 375 on the bike, one core session.
  • Minni - They seem to be behaving themsleves at the mo but last week was really my first proper long run since London. Since then I have only dabbled with 5k's here &10k's etc but seems to be that I get faster on lesser mileage. Is that possible? Totally get the whole experience thing re how many marathons one does and can't believe some of the figures being quoted on here! Have worn those hideous stocking things you mentioned and general consnenus seems to be that they help. Envious you are doing London again. I opted in for ballot but no idea if I will do it even if I get a place.

    No interest in the cricket whatsover but seems to be quite one sided from what I can tell.

    5k for me tonight, it was 25c at 6pm and crawled along in 23 mins but sweated buckets & legs felt lifeless. Would have opted for a dip in the sea when I got home but the darn tide was out!image

  • Menna - forecast says mae tywydd yn ddiflas, forgive my Cymraeg, but bring a raincoat.

    Good miles Moof, building up nicely 

  • I hope you made it home before distaster struck Moof

    I did a 5k at the seaside tonight as well Gerard. Forgot my Garmin and also didn't properly check the start time and arrived too early. What does a Marathon runner do with an extra 30mins whilst in a deserted public car park?  Well, I didn't do that, but I did do a 6 mile warm up + strides and stretches (to go with the 5m easy this morning). image

    Wind blowing a bit and the course isn't the quickest, so I was pleased with 4th overall, 18.15 chip time. Reckon on a decent course / night without the recent training in the legs my pb would be lowered. I have a 5 more 5ks booked for over the next 8 weeks now, so will see how if it drops.

    July stats:

    1xpb (10k - 37.08)

    1x VLSR - 28miles

    Total running miles: 320

    Cycling miles: 407 less than Lorenzo!

  • Nice time there Keir and great 4th place! Mine was just a solo run to keep it ticking over.

    5k handicap race tomorrow night for me, forecast is 30c and light wind so not expecting a quick time. Given my recent 18:55 pb I think my handicap will be rubbish and don't feel in sub 19 shape at all but can't resist turning up. Normally attracts at least one elite or seriously good club runner. Previous attendees include Sonia O'Sullivan and David Moorcroft.

  • Decent mileage keir, nice 5k too. Are you following a plan and/or getting some coaching/ mentoring (re VLM) or maybe a slightly more relaxed making it up as you go along?





    This week has been that great for more unusual running injuries as I was stung on my right thigh by a wasp on Sundays long run. Only 5 miles done but I managed to tough it out for another 15 coz I'm 'ard. Bloody hurt though, still itchy now.
  • Bike It - sounds promising.
    Moof - I think I'll stick to my old shorts.
    GM - definitely agree with others about slowing down the long runs. Most of my running is done at 8:30-9:00m/m. As for work, I'm a bit of a jack-of-all-trades in I.T. - current job is in development (VB.NET/SQL). What careeer are you now in? I'm thinking about re-training as a teacher (Keir, talk me out of it!)
    JD3 - good to hear from you. That's some decent mileage for July. Where and when is your mara?
    Lorenzo - very nice bike mileage - don't forget to run too!
    Moof - that's a lot of miles in one month.
    Keir - cracking 5k and nice stats.
    8 miles this morning, with 3 sets of 3 x 400m off 30s recoveries, and 800m between sets. First set was all over the place 1:25, 1:21, 1:27. Then settled down a bit: 1:20, 1:20, 1:20, 1:21. 3rd set 1:19, 1:20, 1:21.
    A bit tired after yesterday - 1hr10mins each, which is too much I think. Good interview experience anyway. Another interview lined up on Monday for a job half the distance away.

  • Gul - I always thought you were a vicar!  I thought it was a bit odd that God was going to make you redundant!  I've always felt sinful when I've referred to alcohol....

    Gerard - This will be my 8th/9th London! I love the course.  Personally I think you need the miles in training for distance running. You may get faster on the shorter distance with less miles but in distance running you need lots of long SLOW miles!

    Moof - get the antihistamines in.

    Keir - cracking 5k there.

    Poacher - are you doing the Coastal Marathon?

  • +1 for thinking Gul was a man of the cloth. Teaching is a fantastic and rewarding profession Gul, its just a pity that crowd control plays such a great part of the job. At least with IT the kids generally remain focused. 

    Moof, I could run but doubt I could get the most out of myself without a colourcoded excel spreadsheet to guide me. No mentoring and a self made programme, pulling it bits and pieces of other programmes and previous advice. PM me your email address if you or anyone would like a copy.

  • Quick pop in to say "good luck with the interviews Gul!"

    I seem to have zero spare time at the moment with trying to step up my training (without the wife noticing - 5:30 is becoming a routine wake up), puppy wrangling and catching up with the work I've been neglecting for the past 6months image

    Crack on you lovely people!

  • Minni - You talk alot of sense, you're right re the more miles endurance thing. It's just that I guess I am a total novice and this time last year I would not have even contemplated running a marathon! I do enjoy just getting out there on the cliff paths and trails and feel like I could run forever sometimes. Great feeling knowing you can wake up and go for a 20 mile run. Alot of my friends think I am insane but they have no idea what fun they are missing out on.

    Gul - I was also under the impression you worked with sermons too and not servers! In my previous life I was a jeweller and helped run a family business. I studied gemology and loved working with beautiful things but where I live it's not financially viable. You pay a premium for living in an offshore jurisdiction, so I bit the bullet and decided that I would either become a investment manager or chartered certified accountant. I opted for the latter as it offered more scope in terms of what industry you can work in. It's not all about number crunching in fact most qualified accountants I know don't prepare accounts they work in senior/directorial positions in the finance/trust/legal industry. Anyhow I get to work with some interesting people and get rewarded for working hard. My brother has just finished his 1st year of a teaching degree as a mature student, he is an artist/musician by trade.

    Keir - yes please, my email is knysnaflamingo@hotmail.com .

    Moof - Bad luck with the shorts, I had a similar disaster in a 10k race and I almost wept with the pain afterwards. Even worse luck with the wasp sting, well done for completing the run tho', you must be well 'ard!

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