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ASICS Super Six: Maria (Sub-3:15)
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MM - racing shoes gain you around 10 seconds a mile on a road course. If you think about the effect of changing weight at the end of a lever you'll see why even a small reduction in weight on your feet can make a big difference.
However, I wouldn't wear ultra light shoes for a marathon (I get sore feet doing a half in them)...mostly its personal choice, becuase 10 seconds a mile doesnt mean much if your feet are killing you!
But it does mean MM would have PB'd at the weekend, if you're right Curly!
Just a final point from me on this matter, as I wasn't around to respond to Speedy's useful info. I did take that information from McMillan, as mentioned by Lorenzo, and from reading some training methods used on "The Middle Ground" thread, which is a very useful source of info, btw. As Steve says, it's not worth making yourself ill through under-fueling, which is why I always tuck a £20 note under the sole of my trainer. It serves 2 purposes: the first is in case I get injured and need a taxi home (not been necessary yet, fortunately) and the second is so I can buy some food and drink if desperate. I did have to do this on one 17 miler, when I was very dizzy and could hardly put one foot in front of another. I stopped and bought a bottle of lucozade and a mars bar, which was enough to get me home and I rested the next day. The caveats to not fuelling are that the non-fueled LSRs have to be very slow and you need to know there are shops towards the end of your run. I believe the point at which you feel knackered is when you start to draw on the fat for energy.Good running UD. May I ask why the intervals will be on the treadmill? Is it due to your local hilly terrain?
MM - yes we do get ASICS trainers apparently, just got an email from RW asking me what model/size I would like. Perhaps I will go for a racing type - does not hurt having one as part of the running wardrobe I suppose
B&B - I keep 5 pounds in my pocket at all times just in case I need a taxi or food/drink. For long runs I take a mobile phone with me as well.
Reg training today - yes its quite hilly here plus I find it easier to monitor pace/distance etc on a tradmill for intervals.
B & B - I'm with you on the fueling debate.
I happily did 18 miles on Saturday with the second 9 miles faster than the first without water. Overall pace was about 9:15 min/miles on a hilly course and I didnt feel tired at all at the end (last mile was the fastest). Personally if people want to fuel thats up to them, but I cannot stomach it so I dont
I'm not marathon running at the moment, so I have no idea if I would fuel over 26.2 miles at race pace, I wouldnt need to for that distance in training (I have gone up to 23 without liquid, but dont really feel the need to go further since it doesnt further my training to do so atm).
To be fair to MM - his battered trainers are probably as light as racers anyway, I was just trying to show they can be useful things
UD - Have you had any feedback on whether to do quality sessions on the treadmill ? There seems to be a substantial body of opinion that it just "ain't the same|" and unless weather or other factors dictate, the interval type stuff should really be done outside. Is there nowhere flat you can find even if it means doubling back mid interval ??
Any sign of your mentor yet ???
Curly - is your 10sec a mile gain on road races based on your personal experience or is there some statto data somewhere ?? It's an issue I keep contemplating myself !
Intervals done. Glad I went to the gym today as it was raining in the afternoon. Did my best at running as fast as I could and keeping the pace up for a mile - managed about 7-7.20 minute per mile - was running so fast I nearly fell off the treadmill! Legs felt tired but not sore which is good I suppose. Back is a little bit sore as well - could do with a nice back/shoulder massage... Perhaps I should invest in one of those massager sticks - read a review on them in Jan issue of RW. Anyone used them? Are they any good? Before anyone mentions - I am doing my core strengthening exercises - and they are helping
I had the treadmill v outdoors debate with myself today. Although there are no big hills where I live I know there are enough ups to make it hard to keep the faster pace demanded by intervals going. I actually ended up taking the option of driving 20 minutes to the town where my club is as it is much flatter there and I can run on a footpath around the ringroad. Even with the rise in petrol costs I figured paying entry to the gym (if they finally spot i'm using my better half's card) would be more!
I've not heard from bud yet either although Steve has answered a couple of questions for me.
Mile efforts for me tonight (well, 0.99 miles). I only did 3 as I'm racing at the weekend. Reps were 6.22, 6.15, 6.17, which is OK for this stage of the game I think.
can't confirm whether they would improve times by 10secs per mile but even if they made 1% difference that would be 4.8 seconds a mile @ 8min/mile.
now using zoom streak for intervals and tempo runs with a view to using them in paris this time around. i have other trainers for slower runs.
x-post with speedy goth - didn't want to say it but man up and get outdoors
I think Bud and RW are back so you should hear from them both tomorrow.
I can confirm from my perspective as long as you are reasonably light on your feet that there racers or racer/trainers can potentially make a big difference to your race times.
Bud may differ but I think you should do as much as you can outside - treadmills are nice and cosy but the running style is slightly different and as speedy goth said (Running Notts XC champs?) there are no races on treadmills. It is much easier though setting the treadmill at the pace you require but it's not the same.
Was trying hard to come up with some excuses for my treadmill run yesterday and all of them sounded quite pathetic once I said them out loud... OK - I admit I was feeling a little lazy yesterday - thank you for telling me off!
7 miles easy is on the schedule this afternoon - looking forwrad to it already! Legs no longer feel tired or sore which is great.
Morning! As promised:
Moraghan wrote (see) So based on these two its somewhere between 5-10 seconds a mile, its more for me due to the second point that Moraghan makes (not sure why my text is between the two quotes but nevermind)!UD – I’d strongly recommend that you keep your usage of tread mill running for any quality sessions to a minimum. Its’ fine for the odd easy or recovery run but you are robbing yourself of the full benefits of a quality session by doing it on the treaddie.
Doesn't running outside also provide the impact one requires to harden up the legs? Curly, wasn't there some discussion regarding that on the middle Ground thread a while ago, when someone thought they suffered in the marathon due to training too much on a 'soft' track?
UD - Do you set the treadmill to have a % incline? I used to hate running in the rain and avoided it but once I'd done it a few times found it quite pleasant and more satisfying. It'll keep you cooler than the hot, sweaty gym too.
Not quite - PRF did lots of track MP running in prep for Amsterdam and felt it might have been contributory to him fading in the later miles...
I think he later decided that actually it was just a lack of cumulative miles (years of running) that was the main cause.
Personally I think treadmills arent ideal for all your running, but cant see a huge problem with them occassionally, but that is said from zero experience of them so could be completely rubbish
Curly - Thanks for the comments re racing shoes. Think I need to just stop arsing about , buy a pair (as opposed to growing a pair) and see how I get on. Probably for the psychological boost as much as the real physical one eh.
I think treadmills are OK for recovery stuff and in extremis but best avoided otherwise. I'd maybe even go as far as to say doing some recovery can be beneficial on the nice soft surface. It's the heat that always gets me on the b*$tards
Hello all and thank you for the interesting opinions reg treadmill runniing and racing shoes. After reading the forum yesterday I did feel a bit guilty of doing two of my interval sessions in the gym so my wonderful husband decided to cheer me up and took me out to the great Scottish outdoors where I could run freely and enjoy the scenery along the way. He took me to Blanefield where we joined West Highland Way - great idea but wrong weatrher conditions! It was very icy and sleety so that I ended up falling on my backside twice, there were big puddles of mud so I was plastered in it by the time I ran 2 miles. We had to turn back once the path turned into one big icerink! Did I mention my husband also brough our son with us - in the running buggy! Great Scottish outdoors are great for getting it out of your chest - you can scream at each other until you feel better, then kiss and make up
I am going to go for my 7 miles run this evening once the little one is in bed.
Ran 6,5 miles this evening before dinner. Felt good being out in the dark, not many cars on the roads which was surprising. Felt stronger and more confident than ever before however on the way back, about mile 5 - my calves started to get sore again. More stretching tonight. Average pace - about 8.5 miles per hour.
USB - it was freezing walking back but luckily we managed to get back to the car in one piece. Btw Bud's been in touch this afternoon by email. How are you getting on with the training? I should really go onto your thread and read/post - not had much time lately, will have to change that
I had an email too. Hopefully he'll arrive on the threads soon as I think it is good for other people to hear the advice too. Seems to be going ok so far, I managed 4 runs a week for the first 2 weeks what with snow and visiting people but intend to do all 5 sessions from now on. I think a big challenge for me will be that the mid-week run gradually increases to 11 miles which really isn't doable in the evening because of both time and the fact I'd have to run round a dark town in circles! As our annual leave is worked out in hours I may let myself finish early some weeks and go run round a local lake instead.
Chilly here tonight but not icy although I did meet a gritting lorry.
I have my longstanding regular threads that I try to pop into at least twice in the day and have added 'my' thread to that routine. I try to nip around the other 5 threads in the evening to see what is happening and what Steve has to say.
Decided to take it easy today as calves and back are still a bit sore. More stretching - hopefully better tomorrow.
Hi UpsyDaisy
Can I just be really blunt and say that I think that you are being short changed here?
I did this competition in 2009 and the reason I entered was not because of the schedule or the fancy gadgets, it was because I would receive the excellent mentoring that would (hopefully) get me to the next level in terms of running (we had/have the same goal)
I got the opportunity to work with Liz Yelling. Whilst there might have been restrictions and shortcomings in terms of the detail and constraints of the competition itself, the support and encouragement I received from Liz herself was excellent. She was in touch prior to the 'kick off' to advise what I should do pre schedule, lots of off line contact, tweaks to the schedule and advice. Plus, she was around daily to answer my own questions and the questions of others. That's what the thread was about and it worked brilliantly well. Same for MM in 2010.
You are nearly 3 weeks into your schedule and your mentor hasn't posted. You should now have or be developing a relationship with your mentor, they should be starting to get to know you as a runner and a person etc. You have never run a marathon before and will have tons of questions or concerns. I feel for you and, from a commercial point of view, it hardly puts either RW or Asics into a glowingly warm position does it?
Sorry, I just don't think it's 'on' is it?
With apologies to Steve who was being rather admirable trying to maintain 6 threads but whose responsibilty it is not