RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    AA is it worth you popping into your local X-ray department in the meantime?  I don't think a stress fracture shows up on an X-ray but at least it will rule other things out?


  • oh dear, AA image ... can't they stick your foot in one of those casts to immobilise it? Aren't there casts that enable you to walk in them so you can still work?

    I ran 30 mins without stopping last night image   I still have sciatica all the way down my left leg but I can tolerate it. If I don't think about it when I run it's bearable. Running with some pain is better than no running image 

    Neurologist thinks the calf pain that plagued me all summer might well be down to the back issue, btw.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Chick-you're getting there and will soon be back to normal

    AA-its cr@p being in the no mans land of not knowing what the injury is and no treatment plan.Hang in there

    Pink-welcome back-gald you had a great trip and Im sure Barry will be fine

    04S/Simon-yes they were great....took me back to my O/A levels

    Physio wasnt impressed I tried a 5 mile run on Sunday-he made it clear that I run now to rehabilitate not for fun or fitnessimage so more rest and occasional run/ walk avoiding pain ,sessions. Starting to wonder about next April now. He says I can give spinning a tryimage. Really want to get off this bench


  • Chick - Good news you are running but be careful.

    AA - Hope you get an answer one way or another, I had an x ray earlier this year with my injury to try and rule out stress fracture, they did n't find anything but they did say sometimes it won't show on a x ray.

    Daren - Very nice YKW, looking good for next weekend.

    Minni -  Decent time in windy conditions, congrats on the 1st place, I nearly got blasted in the face on sunday by someone standing on a gel in front of me, now that would have really made my day.

    O4S -   Congrats on the race and 1st place.

    kfc -  You can't race well everytime, better to have a bad run day now and save the good performance for Leicester.

    Shildon - Sorry about the DNF but wise decision.

    Carrot - Very good long run and a confidence booster.

    Spoons -  nice one on your reduced training and congrats to your GF.


  • Well marathon no.10  in 5 years for me  and Sunday's time was 3 minutes slower than my first.image, There are some positives later, maybe image

    Journey out was good, and easy enough to find hotel even with some diversions on the underground, lots of construction work going on.  Hotel was in Mitte about 15 minutes pre marathon and 30 minutes post marathon walk from Alexander Platz.  Went to the Expo on Friday not as well organised as VLM.  Did n't do much Saturday, city tours were cancelled/modified due to mara so just went down to Brandenburg Gate etc to check out area.

    Left calf had been niggling while walking around and tried to hop on it Saturday and pain was there.  Also still had what I like to call , "gravel throat", where just can't clear it and nearly end up gagging, but no green stuff being brought up so not overly worried.  Ate and hydrated Saturday and went for an Italian Saturday evening and early to bed.

    Early rise Sunday morning and ate as much as I could. Lots of runners at Breakfast, how do some people look so confident before a race.  Me and Pink made our way to the start and made final decisions about meeting up and timings, said our farewells and I made my way into the racers area. Great weather for running, cold and no wind.  Wacked a load of volterol on my left calf(which did not seem to do a lot), the usual several toilet visits and down to the start area. I did some dynamic stretching but did n't want to run on the calf knowing it would probably seize up if  when I stopped.

    I was in Pen E and in the first start wave of 3, took a gel about 15 mins before start, not sure if it was due to this but about 10 mins before start felt a bit weird and lightheaded.  Feeling went away and made my way to the frontish of the pen, could n't see any of the pacers.  tbc

  • Chick - good to see you are tentively back running, hope driving isn't too painful now.

    Carrot - awesome 21 from you, you are training so well, I can't wait for your marathon you are going to smash it image

    Spoons - sub 4 is still good and well done to the GF for a cracking P.b!

    Shildon - sorry you DNF but best to listen to your body then overdo it and be paying for it for ages.

    KFC - a run during a tri isn't the same as a run on it's own - now taper, taper, taper and think positive thoughts, your legs ARE going to be fresh for Leicester image

    AA - bah humbug! Really sorry to hear you might have a stress fracture image

    2old - being on the injury bench does suck, try to be patient, best to rehabilitate the injured achilles properly than rush into things and have continuing problems (I speak from experience - tried to ignore my problems post VLM 2012 and haven't run a race since!!)

    Simon - how annoying that you still have anohter 3 weeks to go, hope the daytime tv isn't too dull!

    Daren - you are flying, exciting for your 10km coming up - remind me is it Southend you're doing? If so defo a p.b course, out and back and mostly flat along the seafront, you will smash that sub 40 image

    Barry - looking forward to reading the rest of your report, don't be too hard on yourself, you went into the race with a calf issue, so the result has been impaired by that, I'm sure you will take something from the experience image

    Pink - beat Oktoberfest was lots of fun. Is on the bucket list of things to do, just haven't got around to it yet!

    Well after feeling good Sunday, lurgy made a return yesterday, so gave in and phoned my useless doctor this morning - the earliest appointment they can give me is next Monday evening, fat lot of good that will be!

  • Normal pre race formalities with celebs, Haile, Macau and Tergat being introduced.  Race start at 8:45 and it took me about 4 mins to get over the start line.  Was n't concerned about the congestion for the first mile, to be expected but when it carried on for the first 4 was getting a little concerned, roads would open out then close up again leading to congestion, feeling left calf every foot strike, not painful but still very conscious of it. Split for first 4 miles: 7:46, 7;40, 7:29, 7:43.

    Finally got a bit of clear running and managed to get some rhythm going, was taking water on at every other stn and first gel at 6 miles, splits for next 4 mile:7:19,7:30,7:19,7:22

    Felt good for the next 4, another gel at 10 and  passing lots of runners, kept targeting someone about 20 metres ahead and steadily trying to catch them. Splits: 7:09, 7:20,7:22,7:22

    Through halfway  in just over 1:38 so I knew I had to make up some time, also Garmin was a little ahead so could not rely on avg pace.  Gel at 14 and still felt pretty  confident even though calf still the same.  Spilts for next 4: 7:13, 7:10, 7:20, 7:12.

    Was happy with the pace I had done for the last 4 and told myself I was thereabouts on target with "just" another 10 miles to go.  Gel at 18.  Started slowing over the next 4 , not sure if it was the calf or just did n't have it in me. Splits :7:24,7:35,7:41,7:54.

    Mile 20 and 21 were a dark time, usual thoughts here we go again another bad one, why do I bother etc etc.  Calf definitely an issue now and running became running/limping for the last 6.  Got some encouragement from an Italian runner, Salvatore, and we kept each other going for the last 6, he was struggling with energy and was getting a bit confused as at the 32k marker he said only 6k left - I wish. At about 22 he told me to go ahead but I knew 3:15 was long gone so I stayed with him and kept him going.  Splits for the last 6 and  a bit 8:18,8:01,8:09, 8:26,8:45, 8:33, 7:57.  Garmin read 26.65 miles.  Great feeling turning into Unter Den Linden and seeing the Brandenburg Gate, saw Pink at about 26 miles and I managed a smile.  Was just happy to finish without stopping. I think the photos will show me smiling with my hands in the air - WTF.   Official time 3:24:08. 

    Very impressive medal, hug with Salvatore and he was very grateful.  Hobbled to get my kit  and grabbed a couple pints of Endinger and met Pink outside the Reichstag, got a little bit teary. Spent the evening at the Oktoberfest and had a good time.  Was struggling to walk occasionally left left leg would "pop" forward and calf would be agony.

    Spent Monday on the bus tour, normal pains in legs but calf  a real issue.  Had a bit of time to kill in the afternoon so we spent a pleasant couple of  hours in the sunshine back at the Oktoberfest before flying home last night.  Conclusions to follow.


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Looking forward to your conclusions but a very brave run with your calf issues.  Sounds like meeting Salvatore was a stroke of luck and good that you ran the last few miles together when you were both having your own personal battles.    That's a very impressive time.  Get the calf healed.  Well done.

  • Aw, Barry image   sorry it didn't go to plan. I was starting to worry when your pace suddenly dropped and thought oh no, not the calf image. Kudos for sticking it out though and what a nice gesture to keep Salvatore company. Anyway, another sub 3:30 in the bag. Now you need to sort that calf out. Let them look at your back too .... sometimes it's not necessarily a muscular thing in the affected area but a neurological thing caused by spinal problems as I just found out image ...

    AA: hope they send you for CT or MRT scans. Most stress fractures don't show on x-rays so x-raying is probably a waste of time.

    kiwi: lurgy sounds rubbish, doc even more so image

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Barry-that was a tough one-we know what you wanted and you'd done the hard work so it was on for you, so I really feel for you at the moment. That calf problem has handicapped you for too long one way or another and is frustratingly holding you back.That said, in the circumstances, it was a great performance,verging on heroic, well done...By anyone's reckoning 10 marathons and a sub 3.30 10th is pretty impressive....and  you hammered out two marathons this year injured-I couldnt do any.

  • Barry - a very honest, heart-felt account of a hard marathon experience. We have all been there web te mind and body decide not to play along. Very good I you to stay with Salvatore and that will be a memory that you will share. Very bonding! I'm glad you both enjoyed the weekend. I know what you mean about the expo being crap though!! The finish is excellent. However I didn't hand my chip in. Couldn't find were to do it!!!

    i have an appt with my gp tonight to get an X-ray but now im thinking I need a scan after reading all your advice. been limping all day and it's getting worse by the day image

  • Great report Barry. The 3:15 beast is still there waiting to be slain! Hope the calf recovers.

    My weekend's racing has been nixed as my OH's flight has been changed to leave 10 hours earlier, so that I can't fit in my race. So that was a very short tri season for me. I also have a place for the standalone 10K (letchworth) for this Sunday if anyone wants it - transfers are possble to the end of the day and the place is going free.

    Did a tempo run this lunchtime round a very windy Viccy Park. A 2-mile effort @ 6:45 in a 7-mile run. Phew that was tough. Will be upping the effort length gradually as I approach the HM date with destiny in Nov. Felt far too hard today for my liking.

  • Barry - still a great time, especially with calf problems

  • Barry- well done for sticking it out. Glad to hear you enjoyed the weekend regardless.

  • Kiwi - feel for you about your doctors. I never have a problem at mine - probably because they're  small surgery and most people in our village go to the bigger surgery 2 miles away.  Rang up at 2, saw gp this evening and have a form to take to X-ray department in hospital. Can't go tomorrow because of work so will head up there on Thursday. image

  • Well done Darren on the YKW

    Minni Congratulations on 1st place & that is a good time to finish in image

    AA Sorry to hear that you are still in the wars. When Barry had a suspected stress fracture he sent me to a music shop to by a tuning fork! Bizarre I know. Good luck at the hospital image & lucky you getting a doc appointment so quick, I usually have a battle with the receptionist first to get an appointment on the very rare time go! Ditto re the expo as it was rubbish & overpriced. The Brooks trainers I have my eyes on work out cheaper to buy over here with the discount I get.

    Chick Sounds like your Marathon tracking worked better than mine. Our daughters were keeping me updated via text while I was stood near the gates & yes I saw Wilson Kipsang fly past me & break that world record - wow!

    Barry - we've already talked about the marathon but we should have tried to get a photo of yourself & Salvatore as you did help each other when the going was tough.image

    Managed to go out for a quick run in Berlin & went out for a 4 miler today although I have picked up Barry's cold but it's miles banked especially as I have my first race Sunday which i'm feeling nervous about.





  • Barry: thats a good time all things considered, dont be too hard on yourself

    AA: hope you find the answer soon

  • ((Barry)) I really feel for you. It's horrible when things don't go to plan after the months of hard work and preparation you've put in.  You were still a bit under the weather, and with a very dodgy calf, you have to take a lot out of your grit to get it finished.  You've probably made Salvatore's marathon what it was, that's one of the good things about marathons, the camaraderie of helping lift complete strangers when they are struggling.  If we all did that kind of thing every day the world would be a much better place.  Glad to hear you enjoyed Oktoberfest while you were there, it has to be done!

    Let us know how that goes AA.

    Lurgy should be gone by Monday kfc! Typical.

    HMP is a hard, hard pace to keep up on your own in a training run Ant.  As a guide, I did a half marathon pace tempo last week and the so-called half marathon pace average 7:04 (supposed to be PB pace) - "It's the effort that counts!" Keep at it, it doesn't necessarily get easier, but just keep at it image

    Well done getting a run in at Berlin Pinklady, holiday running is the best! Shame about the Brooks at the expo, save your money and spend it more locally.  Which race are you doing? Nothing to be nervous about at all.

    Club handicap tonight, the last one on the summer route.  Came 19th out of 31!!!  But finished one place ahead of Parsnip, which is all that matters image

  • AA - Good luck with the X-Ray, but sounds like it might not give you the answer just yetimage

    Carot - Well done on beating Parsnip, was that with the handicap or is he injuredimage, he's a speed machine isn't he?

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Carrot-- good to see you put parsnip in his place .

    Ant-I think the trick with the fast stuff is to get up to speed then relax and aim to maintain momentum. Thats what someone said for swimming but with running you have wind ,hills corners and going too fast to maintain. ....very complicated. 

    Pink- I read there was a breakfast run at Berlin ...did you look into that? Don't worry about Sunday. Relax and enjoy it . 

    did a bit of spinning and rowing today. Tried the cross trainer but soon gave that up as an option . Probably same tomorrow if I don't get in the pool 

  • Carrot - nice one beating parsnip in the handicap image

    2old - cross trainer isn't an option for me either as that hurts image Might hit the pool this morning...image


  • Barry, really sorry to hear the marathon didn't go to plan after all the hard work you put in, but that's still a very decent time and well done for toughing it out. I hope you don't mind me being honest - and obviously I'm in no position to offer marathon advice to anyone! - but you are someone who runs their long runs very fast and I wonder whether you may have left your best running in your training sessions? I remember you posted on Tuesday I think it was about doing a 10-miler at about 7:15 pace which did strike me as a very tough run to be doing the week of a marathon. Don't mean to speak out of turn, but just a thought...

    Carrot, well done for beating Parsnip in the handicap!

    Kiwi, yes, it's Southend and, like you say, definitely looks a PB course. Weather forecast is looking perfect too so I better be thinking up some other excuses!

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Daren-we are expecting a podium for you at Southend to keep up the standard. Interesting comment for Barry to consider. In my case I run LRs too fast and run too fast during the taper.If my body stands up to it I perform well in the race,if it doesnt I dont get there due to injury which seems to have happened a lot over the years.

    2k swim completed 4x500m intervals. Can anyone tell me if it would help me go faster  if I increased the distance I swim-I only ever go up to 2km and never get any faster? I know I need to work on technique and intervals too.

  • 2Old, considering the winner of the Southend 10k did it in 31:xx I don't think a podium finish is on the cards somehow!

  • agree - HMP feels bliddy hard in training, so does MP, especially those dreaded P&D sessions where the bits at MP get progressively longer image

    Good luck, Daren

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    HMP also feels bliddy hard in a HM!!! image

  • AA - you are so lucky with your doctor! hope your x-ray proves useful.

    Carrot - nice one beating Parsnip!

    Daren - you won't need any excuses, Southend is the perfect course for a p.b + great the weather conditions are looking good image

  • Carrot - Well done on the handicap, nice to win the last of the series, bragging rights are yours til next year, was it you or Brol who has done Barcelona Marathon? If so how was it?

    Daren - All advice welcomed, the 10 miler last week was a test for my calf.  But I admit I have been guilty in the past of running faster than I need to.  See below for further thoughts on my training for Berlin.

    Overall I should be pretty happy with Berlin after the injured months leading up to VLM and the poor result that day.  I've returned to  running well and the long term right calf injury was sorted with change of shoes to neutral. Unfortunately jury is still out as to whether my 3 runs a week(tempo up to 6 miles, mlr up to 15 and long up to 24) mixed with Insanity circuits is the best way to for me to train for the marathon.  I think I was in pretty good shape prior to my recent left calf issue, this was shown by the 20 miler at 7:29 avg at the end of august.  I do feel I need to do some of my longer runs at a quickish pace to give me the speed/confidence to take on 3:15 and doing the circuits instead of running should allow me to do this.

    I'm not good enough for GFAimage and got my VLM ballot rejection last week, don't know anyone who got in.  So thoughts are Barcelona or Paris to get my spring marathon  fix.

  • Barry: I didn't post about your result until now as I was waiting for your 'conclusions' as promised. I remember how gutted we both were after VLM this year and I am very impressed that you did as well as you did in Berlin, but also know that 2 knock backs in such a short time can be really demoralising. It is easy, with the benefit of hindsight to see what we might have done differently, but you thought it was possible and you gave it a go - you couldn't have done more in the circumstances and now time to move on. That time will pop in when you lest expect it!

  • Simon it was indeed the handicap that allowed me to finish just ahead of him, his time was actually 3 minutes quicker than mine!! He is indeed a speed machine, we ran together tonight as his 'easy/recovery' pace which was my 'crumbs, this is a bit fast' pace.

    Barry pleased to hear you're happy with how Berlin went.  You have just been so unlucky with injury! Are we not all guilty of running some of our training runs a bit too fast sometimes? Nothing hurts so you just push a bit harder, then the following week you try to do that session at a slightly quicker pace... Yes I've run Barcelona once before and am doing it again in March.  It's a lovely course, well organised, a few little ups and downs but no actual hills (or at least, I don't remember any...)  Only downside I can think of is that a 16-week training plan would start at the beginning of December!  I've not done Paris so can't compare the two.

    Looking forward to see how you get on at the 10K on Sunday Daren! You've been racing those YKWs well lately.

    This week's killer Friday tempo run will again be done before 7am as I am out after work again (it's a hard life) 
    10M with 7 @ HMP was bad enough, but 10M with 6 at 10K PACE takes the biscuit.  I did the same session two weeks before London but managed to find a fairly local 10K and just swapped the session to the Sunday.  No such luck this time around.  So 10K pace along the bypass it is image

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