RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • Oompa - here's hoping for a speedy recovery.

    Brol - very strong long one.

    Daren- another very good speedy run.

    Carefull all those with niggles, say me who keeps running on my sore calf, which is getting no better or worse so I'm going to carry on. Nightshift for me this week, just over 3 miles yesterday morning then 15 x 200m with 1 min rec on the way in last night.  My 200m speed is no quicker than my 400m speed.


  • DD- nice 7 miler. It's great when you can feel the fitness coming back.

    2Old- be careful with the calf. I dont' know how you manage those long sessions on a dreadmill, I would lose the will to live after 3m.

    Barry- nice reps.

    Minni- I also have two days off this week and don't we have the same session on Wednesday? Have our coaches been in secret talks???

    Double for me today. 30min easy at lunch and 30min steady on the way home.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I hope no Brolish!  I couldn't cope with all your miles!



  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Minni- hope you do a proper taper ,you deserve that sub 90 and can afford to taper with the base you have built. I think my left calf is a product of my left leg compensating for the ongoing niggle in my right achilles.Just as the right achilles broke down taking the strain whilst my left one was mending,I think im getting a similar reaction.My mind,heart and lungs say I could do Brols miles but my legs refuse image

    Simon-I think you are right about the fast lane-I noticed the problem after an interval session last Thursday.I should stay away from intervals as they seem to be my undoing

    Barry-what techniques do you use to manage the calf problem and keep running. My problem seems to be in the left calf just above where the achilles joins the calf. Was that a double yesterday? Everyone is doing them

    Bro-another double -do you tend to do one easy-how easy?

    DD-not sure if Minni is right about the North Sea, it doesnt seem much different to the UK at the moment-storms and floods



  • 2Old- With doubles I often do one easy in the morning before a quality/ faster session in the afternnon. Easy is just easy- depends on how I feel. During the highest mileage weeks they've been done @ 9.00- 9.30mm and never faster than 8.30mm. I've learnt not to push the pace on those.

  • Daren - you're really flying at the mo!

    Bro - awesome long run

    I went for a swim this morning. It was so packed I gave up after 42 lengths. Roll on February when all the new years resolutions have been brokenimage

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Spoons-Its always the same at this time of the year but it wont last long.

    Brol-so easy really is easy, I need to adopt a completely different mindset to run at 9-9.30 pace as it seems to take so long to do any distance

    Did an easier paced TM run this lunch time-approx 7.5m at 8.22mm. Still need to go slower. Calf tight but ok


  • 2Old- that's probably part of the reason why I get told to run to a certain time rather than distance. It's usually 30-40min easy so that I don't obsess about how much ground I cover. 9-9.30mm seems very slow when you're fresh but not when you've done a few weeks of 70mpw in a row. All of a sudden plodding doesn't seem so bad! Apparently Kenyan elites can run their easy runs @ 9.30-10mm so if it's good enough for them...image 

    On the other hand I can't see the point of artificially forcing myself to slow down to a crawl on days when let's say 8.20-8.30 feels easy. If it genuinly feels easy then it's doing the job I think.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Brol-so actual pace is all about how you feel on the day and is time based and that depends on what has gone on the days before and with an eye on what is to come so ithats done properly. Wonder how many of us actually do easy runs like this? Does this only apply when you are doing doubles or to all easy and recovery runs?

  • 2Old- It applies to all easy/ recovery runs unless I'm given a specific pace. It's a bit of a mix. At times I'm just told to go easy so go by feel but the next easy run can be very specific let's say 40min @ 8.10-8.15mm.

  • I find running recovery runs by heart rate is a good gauge of how fast they should be, as if you've been training too hard or are under the weather, your heart rate will usually be higher, so you'll have to run slower. I usually try to keep mine under 75% of MHR, which works out at about 8.30mm.

  • Whatever it is Bro, it seems to work really well image  

    Barry/2old: look after those niggles. Take heed of Bro and SLOW RIGHT DOWN! There's too many 7th in those easy runs IMHO ...

    First P&D sesh d&d - 8 miles with 10x100m strides. I love those! A bit apprehensive about my MP workout on Sunday but I may just go by effort and see what comes out at the end. Pete's MT interview really got me thinking.

    Great 7 miler, DD. Those "holy shit" runs are my faveimage

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Brol - do you obsess about your weekly mileage or not at all?  I'm thinking if you're having a tired week you might do less miles as running slow.   I quite like the idea of 'time' running. 

  • Minni- no, I really don't obsess about it. A few miles either way won't make any difference. I know I can do a lot but it's not the point...

  • Ive run by time for years, i always check the distance as well but its the time which is the driving force.

    like Bro the pace i consider easy fluctuates greatly dependent on what happened the day before, 9-30 is about as slow as it gets but i spend at least two runs   a week around that pace.

    Spoons: they will all give up soon, in fact they should be thinning out already.

    2Old: watch that calf

    Im presently running with several niggles, as always all in my left leg, presently groin, knee and calf! But their niggles not injuries and as long as they remain niggles we carry on. 

    Had a very cold bike session today at least the sun was shining, first time i had ridden my road bike for ages, felt vey light and fast after the cyclo cross bike. Club hill session tonight on those dreaded Shaftesbury hill, cold, wet with cobbles thrown in, I can hardly wait.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Interesting debate on time v distance. I'm definitely in the latter school. Maybe the reason I'm injured a lot but when I'm not it seems to produce the goods apart from achieving my 10k target. 

    Chick - you'll have no problem with MP far though? What was the prescribed pace for today

    DD- your hills sound like a Hovis advert. Maybe I should just accept the niggles like you and enjoy the discomfort and just run 


  • I agree completely re obsessing about min/mile paces... I know it takes me 12 minutes to get from my bedroom to the sitting room to watch Jeremy Kyle... Time is much more important when watching trailer trash bash lumps out of each other!!!


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    2old - maybe the opposite will produce the goods too?  Listen to Poacher's Marathon Talk interview, episode 154. 

    DD - I agree you get to the point where you can tell the difference between a niggle and injury.

    Oompa - what's hot on the  Jeremy 'You should have put something on the end of it' Kylw show these days?


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Minni - will do ...clearly what I'm doing isn't a way to continue . My left achilles started as a niggle and overnight became an injury ., now it's ok .My right achilles missed the niggle stage and went straight to an injury and now is a niggle.  The problem is that a niggle may result  in adjustments /weaknesses elsewhere with injury resulting. Oh to be in my 20s again where recovery resulted from a good nights sleep !

    oomp - do you keep a record of the distances of the ascents and descents going up and down to the bedroom?Hill repeats !


  • Oompa - I can proudly say that in the 4.5mnths of daytime tv, I've managed to avoid far!

    Re busy gyms. I did a TM sesh this evening, about 5:30pm, and all 20 TM's were busy. Go home you losers, you know you don't want to be there!image. Right ankle sore, so took it steady and only did 5m @ 9mmp approx, and now feels better.




  • another 5 miles banked tonight felt more comfortable but have a slight pain in my left shin so will monitor that in the morning I think ...

  • Minni Was The Railwayman any good? It has received mixed reviews. Your lucky living in such a beautiful area.

    2Old look after that calf. Barry's calf is also a bit sore at the mo - pesky calfs!

    DD The hills sound fun

    Oompa there has to be something better to watch - Doctors? Neighbours is still on.

    Rest day for me today, ran 3 miles Monday lunchtime & 4 yesterday lunchtime. You can tell it's January as there seems to be an increase of runners at my work which is resulting in queuing for the showers!

    Does anyone know if on Jantastic you can amend your weekly runs?

  • 2Old; the Hovis hill is the easier of the Shaftesbury Hills.

    Rest day here, niggles on the point of becoming injuries, plus knackered from last nights hills, our club coach is relentless. 

  • Bah, resolutioners - gotta hate them. ..When I still had gym membership I was cursing all through Januaryimage  month is halfway over so things should look up in a few weeks...

    Pinklady: sorry, can't help re. Jantastic :-/

    Oomps: not sure about UK telly but the Jungle is back on German tellyimage  bunch of reality show rejects and other Z listers nobody has ever heard about fighting over worms and all sorts of creepy crawlies ... yuck!!

    DD: ouch! Sounds like too much hard work ... rest up!

    12 miles for me this morning -- freezing fog and a bit of a headwind. How does that work? I thought fog meant the air was still? Av. pace 8mm. I like those MLRs to be steady or mixed pace. Too boring otherwise.

    2Old wrote (see)

    Chick - you'll have no problem with MP far though? What was the prescribed pace for today

    Hope your are right, 2old...  it's only 8 miles of MP. No prescribed pace for yesterday's run. I like to run the GA ones in P&D by HR and keep it low (70-75% of max). Yesterday's run was av. 71%, av. pace 8:35.

    Sadly, I'm an avid mileage collector. And yes, I do obsess about it. 50 mpw is ok, 60 is what I like to see, 70 is better and 80 is scary, but satisfying too ... I don't do many 80 mile weeks though. Probably one each campaign. And probably none this time as I still have to consider my back.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Chick-somehow we probably all knew that you were a mileage collectorimage. I would be scared doing 80miles, then again Im pretty nervous over 60, a land I rarely venture into.Did you say 'only' 8 miles at MP--I expect youve already got some MP miles done

    DD-its interesting how talking about niggles openly leads to a reassment of what is actually going on with our frail bodies.

    Pink-no idea about Jantatstic sorry. Enjoy the rest.

    Simon-in the gym at 5.30 and it was full? TV is full of stories about obesity but nothing gets said about the gyms being full . Were they there to cheer you on? I go to DL and can nearly always get a TM and usually a free swim lane too except Saturdays

    I find squats seem to help my calf and achilles so there must be something higher up from them causing the problem

    Hoping to avoid the TM today


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Pink - I think you've probably missed the date for changing the runs for January.  Can't remember if you can reset them for February.

    I don't think I've every run an 80 mile week.  You're proper hard core Chick. image

  • Minni: trust me, if I could get where I want to on less miles I would. But each to their own. For the likes of me it's loads of slow miles.

    2Old wrote (see)

    Chick-somehow we probably all knew that you were a mileage collectorimage. I would be scared doing 80miles, then again Im pretty nervous over 60, a land I rarely venture into.Did you say 'only' 8 miles at MP--I expect youve already got some MP miles done


    Well, it's "only" 8 miles this time around. It goes up to 12 in a few weeks. One year I did a training plan (Daniels) that had a 20 miler with 15 @ MP in it. Now that was proper hard core. Compared to that 8 miles is nothingimage

  • 2old -  My calf problem is down to how my right foot is striking, mid foot striking but hitting the outer edge first putting stress on the inner calf. I'm using one of those hard tumble dryer balls to massage the foot and exercise on my hip as not sure which is the cause.  Pain is there only for first 3 to 4 miles of a run. Agree with DD regarding niggles, I'm nearly halfway through the 16 week plan and have completed all planned runs, if I've backed off due to the calf I would n't be where I am now fitness wise, and I think I need to get as much training done as possible to have a decent chance at a good result at Barcelona.  Yes it was a double on Monday, and last nights/this morning runs are sort of a double.

    I definitely run to mileage, if I'm a bit short of the planned miles at the end of a run I'll go around the block to make it upimage.

    9 miles slow into work last night and 5 miles home this morning. Run home was meant to be middle 3 quick but due to headwind all the way was a perceived effort "quick"


  • col.col. ✭✭✭

    2old / Barry - careful with your calfs

    I tend to run my tempo sessions and some of my long runs to time rather than distance. For easy pace and recovery runs I just hit start on the garmin and run at an easy effort. I don't look at the garmin again until the end of the run. Sometimes the pace is 8:50 and other times it is 7:50. 

    Track session last night was 7 x 1k with 2 mins recovery. I kept the pace fairly consistent although the first one was maybe a bit slow. 4m easy run tonight before kettlebell class.   

  • Oompa- hope the recovery is going well... and the daytime tv is not driving you insane.

    Chick- 20m with 15@ mp sounds horrid. I'm with you- remeber finding those MLRs boring in the middle of the week.

    DD- take care of those niggles.

    Simon- good news on the ankle.

    My last quality session before the BM done. 3x 1m @ 6.33, 6.40, 6.45. It was however done around a semi- track and by garmin so I know the garmin probably overmeasured the distance as it always does on a track.and in reality it was around 10s/m slower. Either way close enough to 7mm target. Bring on the BM.

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