RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • Jack - Welcome. I'm a relative newbie compared to others on this thread, having run only 4 marathons. It sounds like you've got some good LSR's under your belt, so if you only take one piece of advice... Listen to Minni and don't go off too fast! At VLM 2012, i started from the wrong start pen (5), as i was running under someone else's name, and my first 5k was 27 minutes as it was so congested and i was forced to run slow. I thought this had blown my chances but ended up with a negative split and a 3.27 time. 

    Oh, one final piece of advice... Don't listen to 2Old about LSR pacing as he always runs his at 10k pace!image

    Minni - image Let me get this straight... You're giving up on 7.14 pace because you've got a sore throat????image Who are you, and what have you done with the real Minni??? image

  • Morning all. 

    Oomps - lovely to see you back in the foldimage

    minni - so glad you're Ok. That cold is due to the easy week last week!! our bodies don't like us cutting down!

    bro - shit - you recovered already?!! next target....?

    barry - nice one. Reading tri early September. Always fun!

    i tried to do 9 miles @mp today and ended up with the mother of all stitches at 5 miles. So bailed out at 6 as was in too much pain. image slight panic that if that happens in London I think I'll be on the nearest tube image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Haha, no Oompa!  7:14 is too fast to maintain over the marathon distance.

    image you ran VLM under a different name?  Shame on you!  I agree with you about the slow start.  People get very frustrated but its often a blessing in disguise.

  • Barry - Sorry, i missed your earlier post. Your plan sounds similar to what i'm going to do as i'm sick of breaking down every five minutes. Knowing me though, i expect the swimming and cycling will be dropped as soon as i'm able to run long again.image

    AA - Had you eaten anything beforehand? I often get them if i run too soon after food?

    Brol - How do you recover so quickly? Does the OH follow you around providing constant sports massages???

  • Minni wrote (see)

    So, an odd weekend for me.  Saturday's 5 miles almost killed me but the plan was to do 12-14 @ MP at some point this week.  Decided to have my first attempt this morning as I have a sports massage booked tonight.  Imagine my surprise when I managed 13 miles @ 7:14!  Game (back) on!  image

    Minni - "Ahem"... See above!

    What does 7.14's equate to... Sub 3.10?

  • Oompa/ AA- what do you mean recovered quickly? It's been a month since Seville for crying out loud! Which doesn't mean that I'm back to normal. I'm ok to resume training but as always it feels like I'm back to square one.image 30min @ 7.50 today felt like a tempo effort... Sigh. image

    Next target is getting to grips with those pesky 10/5ksimage, then onto the TR and York.image

    AA- these things don't happen when it matters, fortget about it.

    Barry- trying something different sounds like a good idea. Hope it works for you.

  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭
    Oompa - 7.15s would be bang on 3.10. I know this because like Minni I have lots of pacing options swirling round my head so have done all the sums. Right now I'm thinking 7.20-ish (3.12 pace) and try and hang on!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

     Oompa -  I ran that faster than MP and felt it by the end, which is why I know it would be suicidal to try it on the day.   image

  • col.col. ✭✭✭

    Pinklady - fantastic report, and well done on another pb!

    Barry - 3 runs a week sounds like a good plan. I really hope it works for you.

    Minni - that's a fast pace on your run yesterday. I hope the sore throat disappears quick

    Jack -  welcome. 3:30 sounds doable. I echo was has been said about a slow first mile in the marathon. My best marathons have come from slow starts. There's another 25m to make up for a slow first one.

    2old - I attempted a 9m run last night with 7 @ MP. Got nowhere near the pace I wanted, but the wind and rain didn't help.

    Freemers - I hope the niggles clear

    AA -  no need to worry about it. All will come good on the day!

    Brolish - looks like you have recovered well from the marathon.

  • Apologies, i thought that you had aimed to do that run at 7.14.image

    Free - Are you not tempted to try to go sub 3.10?image There are at least 5 people from this thread who i'm sure could do it, and you're one of them. 

  • Minni - back in the game, never a doubtimage

    Bro - ah doubles running or a double g&t on the beach in Thailand. Tough choice!

    Free - 7.20 pace - smoking! Sensible I reckon to aim a little under the target, just how much!?

    Jack - mcmillan says 1:36 is easily possible to convert, but you never know how you will react when you are doing the marathon. The best thing to do is listen to your body carefully up to around 18 miles. It should feel easy then, if it is feeling too hard bring the pace down. After 18/20 it will feel hard whatever, and that's where you'll face the big mental test. You'd be amazed how many people are walking in that section in the last 3-4 miles even quite far up the field (I have spectated a few times on the embankment)

    Did 5x600m today as part of a 7 mile run, P&D sure has a tough start to the taper. Will do a couple of 5Ks next 2 weeks to continue the sharpening. One this weekend as part of a longer run, and the other the weekend before as a final pace test.


  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi Pinklady, Hope Stratford goes well then. I have been contemplating it, my friend lives in Welford and it would be good to catch up with him... not sure whether I can sell that one at home! we'll see, would be nice....

    Hi Jack, I think the best thing to do with your first marathon is to enjoy it. whatever way you will have a PB ;0) I think the conservative approach that the guys reccomend is the best. You will be going into unknown territory after 21.5 miles. I thought I was going great on my first marathon until 22 miles (my longest run had been 22), running at perfect 8min/mile splits and then I got ITB in the left leg and then at mile 24 in the right leg. I got through to finish 3:33 but it was a learning curve for me, I had neglected the S&C sessions...

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    with reference to my last post, 7 miles hill reps this morning on the Braid hills overlooking Edinburgh. Lovely morning and gave myself 10 seconds to take in the view at the top each time ;0)

    Popped into the gym at lunchtime for some squats, lunges etc... had a good massage and scolding from the physio yesterday so legs are feeling pretty good!

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    AA-it wont happen in London-thats what the taper is for -you do it now not then

    Bro-oops missed the 'tomorrow' but I wouldnt put it past you

    Chick-I ducked out of the intervals today for a MP run instead.I havent any DOMs but am a bit tired still from Sunday. Good luck with the intervals

    Oomp-me?? run LSRs at 10k pace???-surely you mean Barry?imageGood to see you back -its been too polite here lately. I agree re Minni-time to go for it !image

    Col-Dont blame you for struggling with the MP session with Saturdays HM still in your legs and such sh!te weather. I cheated and did mine on the TM-my excuse is I like to embed the pace into my muscle memory( and dont want to get my hair wet)

    Ant-quietly ticking off the quality as ever

    Nell-shame about losing it at the end of your last marathon-so near -I missed sub 3.15 by 21 seconds in 2010 so know how annoying it is.I have just started trying to use a sort of positive reinforcement -I keep saying in time of my breathing 'looking good' or 'this is easy' or 'so easy' etc etc.It seems to be working as the little doubts or aches and pains that occur in a run soon disappear.

    So, did a 20k MP session on the TM , 7.13mm average including warm up mile.




  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭
    3.10 is a big ask Oompa, seeing as I have only ever run one HM sub 1.35! Ultimately 3.14.59 will do just fine and I'd be over the moon if I did it. Going out at 3.12 pace just gives me a bit of a cushion without (hopefully) being too suicidal.

    That said, I am getting a bit worried because my OH won't tell me his prediction for this year...he is normally pretty spot on, and last year before I left the house to travel down to London he just casually said "sub 3.17". He has been very good at other races as well - he seems to have a good sense of how my training has been going. But this year he says he will only tell me what his prediction was after I finish (so we have a pact that when I phone him after the race he has to give me his time prediction before I tell him the result, and believe me he won't be able to cheat by looking on the VLM tracking as he has no idea how to do that!). I can't work out if it's because he is predicting quicker than I think I will do (which will scare me) or slower (which will annoy me)....
  • Jack: IMO 3-30 in your first marathon will be a big ask off a 1-36 half, yes its doable but 1-36 is only just about there and it takes a lot of experience to maintain a constant pace for 26 miles. It will boil down to to your training if there are lots of MP miles at the end of 20 mile runs then OK, if not then it aint going to happen.

    Groin was sore today so rode my bike for three hours, taking in the three biggest climbs in these parts, really enjoyed myself!


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Free-3.12 sounds about right-you need a slight margin of error built in-its incredible how precise we can be working out our finishing time over 26.2 milesimage. I supppose my approach is to aim for 2-3 mins faster in the first half than my real target on the basis that if I tire in the second half  I have a bit of leeway and if I dont, I 'smash' my target

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    DD-hope the groin strain is temporary

    DD/Chick-did you get the Boston email about the participants booklet and registration card?It says we should have had this stuff emailed to us by now-have you had it?

  • 2Old - Errr. thanks... I think???image

    Free - It's a few seconds per mile that's all, and sub 3.15 or 3.10 is no more of a barrier than sub 3.30 was... Although sub 2.30 may be a stretch!image 

    As you say... 3.14.59 would do very nicely.

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi 2old, No sorry that was my first marathon, I learnt from that  experience and have kept up on the S&C. The last marathon I did 3:20 and no ITB pain ;0)

    ITB was a problem that I had been fighting for ages and it proved that it was down to biomechanics in that first marathon. Since then I have kept up the S&C and been fine. I also attended a Chi running class about 15 months ago and that really helped me!

    All along I just kept getting told to wear orthotics....

  • 2Old: i have had nowt from Boston, will get in touch with them. Groin has been bothering me since xmas.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Nell- did you get orthotics or resolve it when you sussed out the bio mechanical prob? 

    DD- I haven't heard either.. Any effects of cycling on the groin ?


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭


    Liverpool Half Marathon
    This was my first race since February and my first HM since last September and was feeling very nervous as it was to measure my progress ready for Boston in 4 weeks. Not a good start when hail hammered down as I got up. Very tempted to go back to bed. Anyway set off to Liverpool early to ensure I didn't have to rush. Immediately hit by the northerly wind which didn't bode well as the last 4.5 miles of the race was straight into it. I knew then no chance of a pb. Target as near to 1.30 as I could.
    Set off for a two mile warm up run with the return mile into the wind feeling like running into glue. The toilet queue was too long so took a chance I would be ok. Unfortunately the draw string came out of my shorts so I had to tie them up but I was sure they would fall down at some stage.
    Lined up under the Liver Building for the race to be started by Liverpool manager Brendan Rogers. And we were off.
    The plan was to see how I felt at a pace around 6.50 for the first few miles and if ok push on to try and leave a margin for the last few miles when running into the wind. I like the course. It is not flat but the undulations create longish fast downhill sections .There is a big hill in the second mile near the Anglican cathedral which I decided to attack having Boston hills in mind. First 2 miles 6.50,6.51 spot on. Then around the parks with the opportunity to pick it up further . Not sure how mile 3 went as accidentally pressed the lap button. Anyway 4,5and 6 went 6.40,6.43 and 6.33. At 10k I was faster than my feb 10k time 41.35 so I knew sub 90 was on. Dug in for the next few miles 6.41,6.43 and 6.34. Now for the final stages into the wind along the river. Had a drink and gel before descending onto the river path so went over 7 for the only time- 7.09. As expected the run into the wind was tough and I took any shelter I could get from the runners ahead. I got into a group and we took turns leading keeping the pace just under 7mm. Looking at my watch I knew I'd go under 90 mins maybe a minute faster but I wasn't bothered. The Liver building in the distance got larger and larger as the finish line neared ,final sprint and finished. 89mins. 201st out of 6000+ runners and first in age group. Very happy. Last 3 and a bit miles-6.58,6.56,6.58,34 .

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi 2old, No I visited a chiropractor who I realised early on was just after my money and he was pushing orthotics, he didn't take kindly when I told him I wasn't interested and wanted to try all avenues before resorting to orthotics. Not long after I gave him the boot

    When I attended the chi running class the chi coach scoffed at orthotics and told me to forget that avenue! 

    I worked on my running posture etc, and have kept up the S&C at the gym twice a week if I can (get's hard when into the schedule full on). Also I follow this guys routine 3 or 4 times a week I have found these resistance band exercises really help me.

    I don't know whether it makes much difference, but I always wear skins A200 compression shorts underneath my running shorts. Not sure whether it makes the blindest bit of difference but I just don't want to risk it ;0)

    So no, I have not resorted to orthotics, run on Kinvaras, not completely minimalist as the chi running guys like ( they are 4mm drop).  They do the job for me so have stuck with them....

  • PinkladyPinklady ✭✭✭

    Great report 2old

    I think Barry is right to mix training up a bit which may help. I don't think my swimming coach scared him away.

    What date is that tri AA? 

    Went for a run after work & found it hard as the legs are still tired. I have also entered another race - Lethbridge 10k in June. Booked a place for Barry as well & was tempted to put his predicted finish time down of 1.20image

  • kfc.kfc. ✭✭✭

    Busy here today - are we tapering?  image

    Glad your shorts didn't fall down 2old...

    barry, oompa - big fan here of the 3 run plus cross training plan, think its a really good strategy for avoiding injury.  You could call it f**man i guess...  image

    jack - what these guys havent yet told you is that even if you dont crash and burn, it still hurts like hell!  


    Still sniffly today, and now into week 7 of my taper... VLM pain expectation is upping by the day. image

  • 2old - Good report, very well paced race. Nice MP paced tready run.  If you liken my marathons to peas I think my last three campaigns have been mushy.image  Now I'm on reduced runs per week all my runs will be at 10K pace.image

    Freemers - You are right to err on the side of caution, stick to 7:20's or slightly slower for the first few. I always find my legs feel a bit "heavy" for the first few and any time lost can be made up from miles 6 onwards.

    kfc - Definitely not F**man as I will not be attempting any stupidly quick speedwork.

    AA - If the Reading tri is open water maybe next year, got my eye on a couple of local pool one's in September but unless my swimming improves dramatically they will not be happening.

    8  miles for me this morning, misty and cold.



  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭
    6 for me this morning, with 4 @ MP (7.22 average). Both feet feeling a bit sore, but at least the right has evened things up with the left and I am not that worried (yet!). Thankfully the taper means I won't be running every day now, so gives more time for recovery.
  • Great race report 2Old, and a cracking time. You must be pleased with that?

    Nell - Where did you find out about the Chi running course... Prepared to look at anything if it keeps me injury free?

    kfc - Now, now... You know what our landlady thinks of the F**man!image

  • 2Old: nice race and report. Groin is absolutely fine cycling, its impact it doesn't like.

    have returned to cross training as my body doesn't want to let me run 6 days a week. Yesterdays 3 hour cycle  was followed by a one hour run with my second string club, hung on at.  7-30's where oh where has my speed gone? This morning i got brave and got back in the pool, churned through 1600M, first 400M was awful and then i hit my rhythm and cruised the last 1200,I know it was slow but its nice to know I can still swim a mile without any drama. 

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