RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

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  • Wow, GFA for Berlin? When I did it I just signed up in May and ran it 4 months later. Guess it's become quite popular since then image



    nell: I think the problem with a hard evening sesh is that you sit on the couch/go to bed afterwards and don't move much. During the day you typically move around more so the legs don't stiffen up as much. Maybe you need to add a bit more cool-down? I.e. jog for 2 or 3 miles real slow or even walk a bit? Good luck with the 10k.



    Not sure what to do in terms of speedwork tbh. I'm a bit limited with the heart condition but I thought I will do a tempo run a la P&D every other week varying in length between 4 and 7 miles (10 mile to HM pace) and longer intervals like mile and 2-mile reps at 10k pace. Any harder effort won't work for me.



    But right now it's too early for speed. Plan is to start with base training today image



    October was all about recovery and made me quite lazy.
  • Hi 2old, Think you really need to sort out that hip.image

    Hi Chick, Sounds a plan with the tempo runs. Certainly when I run intervals in my plan and perform the longer intervals they are more or less at HM pace. Most of all as long as you are enjoying things and getting out that is good from where you have been lately image

    Hi Chick/2old thanks for the advice. Certainly agree with the theory on moving around in the day etc, Chick and adjusting 2old. Think I will have to try and cool down a bit more on the evening.

    Edinburgh 10K today. First 3 km's pretty easy downhill and then the middle a bit harder. With the last third easier. Splits totally all over the place. 5:47, 5:57, 6:30, 6:56, 6:28, 6:16, 1:08. Finishing with 39:06. Happy with the PB but it was a funny old run in all. Not happy with the splits. I want to try and get another 10k in by the end of the year and see if I can run a bit more consistently through. I suppose  can put it down to being a bit of a 5/10k novice... Sorry, getting a bit anal, I should just be happy with the PB image

  • Nell, We like PB's ! Nice.

    2old: injured and running 7-40 miles, obviously not that badly injured.

    i took it really easy this week, one 5k run which was awful, 2 x 30 min swims and 60 miles on the bike yesterday.  Today I tried a run, managed 8K at around 5-15 min/K but the good news was that while it didn't feel 100% it didn't hurt afterwards, will run alternate days this week.

     

  • Chick- looks like you have to walk a fine line to rebuild your speed. It also comes with lots of slow miles with a some MP mixed in so you'll get there I'm sure. Can't believe you're base trainng too....what is your next marathon?

    Nell- yes a trip to the quack is planned this week. I'm beginning to think my back is a side effect of what's going on around my hip. We will see.  Great 10k pb but what a mix of splits ? Made me smile. Even them out and you'll be well under 19 mins. Re London I'm in too. 

    DD- think I'm used to running with discomfort. Last time I didn't was end of June. Some easy??? Weekend there!  Good to see you running. 

    Nothing today. 

  • Nell - Very nice 10K and congrats on the PB. yeah I deferred London so everything crossed I make the start line next year.

    2old -  I'll still keep the swim sessions going  but cut back on any hard kick sets, my coach is aware of my race schedule. Hope you gets some answers from docs.
    Chick - I have n't done any interval work for a long time, once a week I usually do 3 to 4 miles at pace, and then my medium run 10 to 15 miles sometimes includes somw HMP/MP miles,  I think longer tempo miles are more relevant to distance running than intervals, and my training has n't reduced my speed over the short stuff.

    10 miles yesterday at 7:12 avg and 1 to 1 swim lesson this morning.

  • Hi DD, Really glad you are getting back to the running with no pain image

    Hi 2old, Yes certainly makes sense about the back and the hip. Yes, the splits did make me chuckle, but I suppose it did reflect the course and somewhat me! I think the night out on Friday night , with a curry thrown in probably didn't help me.

    Hi Barry, Miles seeming pretty consistently fast at the moment for you? Hopefully see you in London then...

    Up early and off to the gym for some S+C this morning.

  • Barry-Im with you on intervals and distance running ..Im convinced the YKWs mad a difference for me this year and with a warm up and cool down they arent too dissimilar to your 5mile sessions. Good idea sticking with the swims..Im wondering if stopping swimming in the last month is  what contributed to my Lisbon issues.

    Nell-a curry as wellimage 

    Seeing doctor on Thursday though I dont expect great things then just the start of a process. Some spinning this lunchtime.

  • Thanks for all the good wishes for the Marines Marathon.  Here is my report!

    So the plan was to do this marathon off minimal training and at a pace I knew I'd recover from quickly as I then had 7 days of sightseeing to do in Washington-NewYork-Boston.

    Because of this approach I really hadn't taken the training seriously enough, even for a non target marathon.  I had managed 5 x 20 miles of the past couple of months but little else, apart from some shorter races.  My weekly mileage has only been around 30 but with no structure.  This hasn't worried me as I've been enjoying the fun side of running, rather than obsessing about miles/paces.

    If you're doing a target marathon you make sure you leave nothing to chance.  If you're doing one for fun you are far more laid back in the time running up to the big day, it seems.   

    Set back number 1: I came down with a cold a week before M day.  This lingered on and turned into a cough.  First stop on arrival to America was the drug store for day and night drugs. 

    Set back number 2:  Mr Minni also got the cold and took snoring levels to an all time high.  image

    On the plane I had felt a vibration a couple of times through my handbag and assumed it was a spare phone I'd brought with me. I mustn't have turned it off and the battery was getting flat. 

    Set back number 3:  It wasn't the phone it was my garmin!  I had fully charged it but either didn't turn it off or had knocked it on.  When I got it out my bag on marathon morning it was completely flat.  I hadn't brought the charger. Oops.

    I stayed with my cousin in Washington and he warned that although the tube was opening early that didn't mean the trains would be running regularly.  I was up at 5am and ready to leave by six.  I had 4 stops to the Pentagon.   Yep he was right train didn't arrive for 20 minutes after I arrived at the station.  However, there was still plenty of time.  Lots of other runners were on the train and when we pulled into the Pentagon met hundred and hundreds of others.  Light drizzle turned a bit heavier and got quite wet waiting in the queue to get through security. 

    Setback number 4:  It look more than an hour to get through security.  Runners were supposed to have done the bag drop and have arrived in the start area by 7:20am ready for some kind of opening ceremony, with the race starting at 7:55. I was still in the queue at 7:55!

    I assumed they would delay the start.  Once I finally got through it was then a long walk to find the bag drop. [I'm not sure what the point of security was.   They checked all bags but then at the other side the area was open to the public - we had to cross roads with traffic etc!  Anyway, this is America and they do like look as if they are on top of security even if they're not]  Made my way to the start and could see the markers for predicted finishing times but not many runners until I was almost at the start line.  Then the penny dropped - the race had started some 20 minutes earlier!  I joined in with those on the start line and heard the announcer say, 'and these are the fun runners coming through. Most will take 6 hours or more but they don't care...'  I felt like shouting, 'I CARE!' But then I told myself that really it didn't matter.

    So, I had a cold, missed the start by 20 minutes and had no garmin.  This really had to be run to feel.  I had a wrist watch on so once I got to 5k I tried to use that to keep an eye on the 5k splits.   I had set Strava away on my phone but was paranoid about having no battery at the end.  I dimmed the screen right down and when I checked it a

  • Cont....

     I dimmed the screen right down and when I checked it at halfway it was completely dead.  However, I realised later on in the day that I just couldn't see the screen outdoors!  So I do have splits to look back on.

    Miles 1, 2, 3 (8:45, 9:04, 8:57) I wasn't hard to start slow as I was running with very slow runners!  The roads were also narrow in places so it was hard to get past in places but I just went with the flow and pushed on where I could but didn't worry about slowing when I had no other choice.  

    Miles 4, 5, 6 (8:05 - very downhill, 8:52, 7:50 - again downhill)  These first few miles were beautiful out of the city.

    Miles 7, 8, 9 (8:45, 8:26, 8:17) Starting to get back into the city now.  The crowds were excellent, not quite as big as London but definitely louder!  'Good Job', 'You Got This', 'Go Germany'.  Yes, my club vest is the colours of the German flag...

    Miles 10, 11, 12 (8:30, 8:26, 8:17) I was feeling quite good at this stage.  The aim was to try to keep the effort minimal.  It was quite easy to do this because if I started to go too fast I started to cough.  I used that as my guide!  'You're doing this, Germany'

    Miles 13, 14, 15 (8:28, 8:26, 8:18) I was pleased to be passed the halfway mark.  We were in the city now and I swear I saw the Washington Monument from every angle possible!  Every time I turned around it was there!  'Good Job'

    Miles 16, 17, 18 (8:22, 8:23, 8:30) This stretched included the blue mile in which fallen servicemen are commemorated.  I have to say it was quite emotional, but maybe it was because the running was starting to hurt!  'oh there's a German..' image

    Miles 19, 20, 21 (8:38, 8:53, 8:30) Ok this is starting to feel uncomfortable.  I tried to tell myself this was impossible as these last few miles are always my favourite marathon miles.  My legs were arguing. 

    Miles 22, 23, 24 (8:51, 8:35, 8:43)  I was still passing people but I felt I had barely more than a shuffle left in me.  Oh, why hadn't I trained more?  I knew I'd get to the end but it wasn't going to be pleasant. I stopped at a the 24 miles drink station and took a minute to have a proper drink and give myself a talking to.

    Miles 25, 26 and the rest (9:05, 9:04.... 10:08!)  Oh god this hurt.  I can honestly say I have never experienced this pain before.  It wasn't muscular it was bone.  My bones were disintegrating.  I looked down at one point and expected my legs to melting.  Get to mile 25, then to 26.  Thank god, not far to go now.  Then, shocker, there was a hill and it wasn't a small hill.  It was like going up a multistory carpark. Where was the finish... eventually got the the top and still couldn't see the finish.  I was practically crying and could have just stopped right there, but of course I didn't.  Over the line in 3:51.

    Although at the time it felt like hell on earth afterwards I concluded that I had really enjoyed lots of things about it. I loved the course, the crowds and it was a great test to run without a garmin and totally run to feel.  It was the second slowest of my 13 marathons but I felt I learnt a lot from it.  Mainly not to wear my club vest when running abroad! 

    The good news was my legs recovered very quickly, although my cold took a cold for the worse for a few days, and my hip didn't complain at all.

    All in all very happy.  Now is the time to get back to proper training and make some targets.  Not sure if this will involve a spring marathon as yet. 

    image

     

  • Minni- really enjoyed your report and well done dealing with all the obstacles thrown in your path.Good thing you werent looking for a pb too. That start would have stressed me out. You also proved/rediscovered that no marathon  is easy even when the time doesnt matter...but then again a sub 4 one is still a big achievment particularly with the problems you have had the last year or so.Dont give up on a Spring race..see as it as a further step back.Is it a marathon you would recommend over others? Does it have pb potential assuming the start can be reached on time?image   Whats your next challenge?

  • Minni- great report. I was there every step of the way on the tracker trying not to fall asleep as it was my post long run nap time! GOOD JOB!!!

    Nell- storming 10k. Woosh!

    Chick- Base training already? What's the next event?

    Barry- how is Tapir treating you? What's the target for Valencia?

    2Old- hope the appointment goes well on Thursday.

    4 weeks to go for me and things are looking good. Did 19m @ MP on Sunday which came out at 7.25 and wasn't completely spent by the end so a great and much needed confidence boost at this stage. Nothing yesterday as was stuck in a conference all day and 7m easy home later today.

  • Wow, great MP run, Bro. Hell, 19 miles @ MP is a bit of a killer sesh!

    Minni: congrats also on this thread image

    Barry: wowzer, excellent 10k image

    My next marathons will be Hamburg on April 17 and Prague on May 8. The latter being paid for by work image
    Still toying with the idea of doing Miami whilst we're in Florida in January but our itinerary will have us at Gulf coast around that time so it probably won't work. Anyways, I'm just training as if I was doing Miami image. Didn't someone say the best training for a marathon was to train for it and then not run it? So I'm hoping to come back from 3 weeks in the Florida sunshine über-fit image

  • Bro-nearly taper time for you but it might be a good idea to get that cotton wool protection around you from now on.Decided on a target time/pace yet? Yes fingers crossed for me on Thursday

    Chick-at least we wont have to listen to you moaning about the cold wet and wind spoiling your training in Miami like we normally doimageI can understand your thinking -when uninjured and fit dont stop! Are you secretly joining the 100 marathon club? Lisbon put me off that idea ...1or 2 a year will do me. Anyways..which is your A race...Hamburg?

    85 lengths splashing this lunch time

  • Tee hee, re. me and the weather image

    100 marathon club image  no!!! I have a life image   seriously, that ain't for me. The Hamburg chapter of the 100mc (sounds a bit like a Hell's Angels thing) put on loads of events just so that people can accomplish this arbitrary number. But it often means 6 and 7hr marathons. I just don't see the point. 1 or 2 a year is just fine.

    Hamburg is my A race. Prague is sponsored (cue: all expenses paid) by work, so I simply had to say yes. It's not 100% certain that there will be a team going the whole distance. If there won't be a full team I'll do the relay.

  • Minni: top marathon, sounds like my last 3! I'm sure you can blast a spring marathon if you want or you may just decide that fun running is exactly that... Fun

    Chick: free marathon has got to be good

    Bro: running well

    Barry; good luck at Valencia

    2Old: sounds as if its back to the pool for you

    Cycled 25 with 3500 feet of climbing yesterday, this took in the two climbs from hell near home both 25% plus, nearly broke me, running tonight .... Easy

  • DD- I'm sure those hills must be doing you some good but rather you than me. Hope the run went well. Yes pool for me

    More splashing tonight this time with Swim club,the  first time for months. Thought my lungs were going to explode. 

    Might run tomorrow depending on what the GP says. 

  • Minni - Great report but I would have been freaking out getting delayed at the start.

    DD - Impressive climbing, scary downhills?

    Chick  -  Not me with the 10K, but I'd love that time.

    Brol -  Impressive running, my target as always will be 3:15 and tapir madness see below.

    2old - Hope you got some answers at GP.

    5 miles yesterday at 7:24 avg, all good till 30 mins later and strange ache on right inner shin bone and right calf a bit tight wtf.  3k pull buoy swim this morning.  Valencia number received, 2256,  with pen allocation , I'm in the 3:01 to 3:30 pen that's going to be pretty big pen. 

     

  • Barry-just been referred for an MRI and suggestions of age related degeneration or bulging disc etc. When is your race-this or next weekend?. Maybe a massage and up the isotonic drinks intake? We both seem haunted by calf issues but fingers crossed its just the tapir playing with your head. Lisbon's first two pens were sub 3 and sub 3.30 and neither very big but the start was congested as the first mile or so had narrow streets.What is the profile of the route in Valencia?Temperatures in the low 20's there too...good thing its been wamish here recently.

  • Ouch 2old ... get yourself a good neurosurgeon!

  • Barry: nope, rode up the steep side of the escarpment and down the gentle way. You will be fine by Valencia, the old taper madness creeping in.

    2Old: sounds painful, the joys of getting old, sucks doesn't it?

    running back on the semi banned list, tuesday's club run hit painful by the end, todays run was ok up to 8K (well it was within my pain threshold) then groin really started to complain so walked home. Bike yesterday, maybe pool tomorrow?

  • Chick/DD- I'm in denial about my age....and the bits that are worn out.

    Chick- how's the base training going ?

    DD- that's sounds not good. Maybe a rest would've a better option but would I listen ? Take care.

    First run of the week -16 miles 7.54mm AV . Let's see how my back is tomorrow morning after that!
  • 2Old- ouch, hope you can get it sorted.

    Barry- taper madness indeed, sounds like you need to rest now.

     

    7x 4min @ 6:30-6.40 done this morning before work, half of it in darkness... committed or what?image Easy few miles tomorrow and the last 20m on Sunday with some spurts at MP thrown in but nothing like last week's 19 @ MP. Heading for a bit of tapir after that but still 3-4 challenging sessions to be done over the next 3 weeks.

  • Bro- you are looking on top form.Time to be careful. 

    Rested today.  

  • Bro - what 2old said...

    Chick - if you're in Miami you should definitely do the marathon, just for fun. image

  • Yep, nearly cotton wool time, Bro.

    Base training is going well, 2old.

    I've decided to run every day in November. I've done around 35 miles this week. And tomorrow I'll do the first run of a winter series. Persuaded Mr. Chick to join me. Plan for me is 15 or 16 miles. The race is 5k trail loops around a lake and you decide on the day how many (between 1 and 4). I usually do one warm up loop before the race, then jog around the local track till race start. Have used this race in the past to practice MP but tomorrow I'll pace Mr. Chick to a sub 1hr 10k and tack on 2 more loops on my own, hoping to do something in the region of 8mm.

    Minni: if I were in Miami that day it'd be a no-brainer but we're on the other side of the country i. e. the Gulf coast ... and it's going to be too much hassle to change hotels and itineraries now that everything is booked. But I found out there's a parkrun about half an hour from where we'll be staying the first week so that's something I'll definitely do.

  • Chick- good running there. Enjoy your Mr And Mrs run tomorrow 

    Ykw this am. Torrential rain stopped just in time leaving floods and rivers along the route. Not one of my best-20.58 10th overall and 1st very old git. 20 miles this week. Hope my MRI is done soon though.

  • 2old -  1st place - well done, and good to see you're taking it easy waiting on your results.image Valencia is a week today.

    brol - You are in really good form and peaking at the right time.

    Chick - Good luck for the challenge and enjoy today, does Mr Chick have any long distance ambitions?

    Didn't run on Friday due to tapir "niggles" but 10 miles this morning at 7:30 avg and no problems.  Only concern is nail on big toe which is half off and still holding on but it will be off by mid week at latest.

     

     

  • image re. toenail, Barry ... Nice 10 miler. Mr Chick is a few years older than me so no marathon ambitions but he'd like to do a half at some point.



    And good ykw'ing 2old.



    Had a great day at the first winter series race today. 16 miles done starting with a warm-up loop of 5k, a few laps round the track to wait for the gun., paced hubby for 2 laps to a 54:12 10k, which he's dead chuffed with. He had hoped to go sub 1hr, so that one is chalked off. He came second M60 image

    Then I did 2 more laps where the plan was 8mm but I bumped (literally) into a guy at the water station so ran with him chatting all the way at 8:30 pace instead.

    He did IM Frankfurt in 40 degree heat image



    Conditions were very muddy underfoot as it'd been raining all night and last night's storms blew all the leaves from the trees but it was sunny and warm albeit a bit breezy. Ran in shorts and t-shirt...that hasn't happened before in November ...
  • Barry-glad taper niggles have been put back in their box. Get that nail off now and you'll have a full week to heal. Are those shoes a bit small ? Not waiting for test results...waiting for the test/MRI grrrr. Yes taking it easy...ish

    Chick- looks like you talked all round that run ..perfect for a LSR. Well done to Mr Chick...he's got a good coach.

    Nothing today so far.
  • Hi everyone - sorry for the ultra long absense image  Been distracted by things - not a great excuse and I will try and do better!

    Glad to see some solid autumn marathons from 2old, Chick, AA, Carrot and Minni - loved that report!  Is Bro up next?  Looks like you are in super speedy form so looking like a great time.

    My running is going OK.  Not getting huge miles in, but the quality sessions are coming together - managed 10 x 500m @ 16.0kph last week, which is my quickest ever interval session. Not entirely sure where that speed is coming from - maybe fresh legs has something to do with it, as I'm only running 3-4 days a week.

    So what else....well two good things have happened this week.  One is that I got my VLM entry sorted.  Bib number 257, nice and low image

    Second one is I finally got to the end of the new job interview process - this was a long long process (first met them in June), stressful and hard work.  But thankfully the offer came through last week, and I resigned from my current job yesterday. Now got to negotiate on my rediculously long notice period (6 months!).  Hopefully will cut that down.  Anyway, at least I can start to concentrate on the more important things like running image 

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