RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Dubai Dave wrote (see)

    Yasso says run intervals of 800 metres in your marathon time i.e 3-30 in minutes and seconds .... So a 3 minute 30 second 800 metres =  4 mins 22 seconds Km or a  7 minute 03 second mile, he then goes on to say you should have a 3 minute 30 second jogged recovery.

    Oh, yes you're right. But, I think it took 3mins 39 to do each one which was why I was thinking it wasn't good enough. 

    I had a very gentle couple of miles this morning with my dog and have the first 20 tomorrow. 

    Camping in the desert sounds interesting.  Are there any snakes?  How is the calf?

  • Calf is 100% OK, snakes sometimes, scorpions often, some fairly hairy off road driving required through the dunes.  Enjoy the 20 miler tomorrow.
  • I'm back!

    DD - well done on your PB image

    Minni- some good runs this week, hey.

    This is a forced recovery week for me as I had to go away from a few days, so after not running wednesday, thursday or friday and  500 miles driving I was pretty shattered today, but I set off to do somewhere between 14 and 16 and ran down to the canal and did 15 miles, miles 8-14 were sub 8s so that pleased me.

    Am I the only person not to have hit a 20 miler yet??

  • Hear, hear Mini re your posting. I am loving this forum, so good to chat to people aiming for a similar time. I do most my mara training by myself as there isn't anybody at my club mara training at around my pace. I already feel much more well informed + confident about my training, thanks to all the advice on here.

    AA - well done on you sub 8m/m miles on your run. Don't worry that you haven't done a 20 miler yet, the runner's world schedule had 18 miles for this week, you still have time to build up to 20.

    I am blaming the strong winds on my slow 9.17 m/m 20 miles this morning, would hate it to be that windy on the day!
  • AA - 19.3 is my furthest yet so, NO, you're not the only person!
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    kiwirunner10 wrote (see)
     I am blaming the strong winds on my slow 9.17 m/m 20 miles this morning, would hate it to be that windy on the day!

    It would be ok if the wind was behind us all the way image
    9.17 m/m 20 miler sounds perfect pace - I'm not expecting mine to be any faster tomorrow. 

    AA great to have you back and by the sound of your run today the rest has done you good. 

    Mr Spoons I read on the other thread that you'd aborted your run today (sorry to reply on this thread...).  Sometimes its best just to call it a day if you think its not going to get any better.  Do you think you're coming down with something or was it just one of those runs?  Whatever it is I'm sure it'll just be a temporary blip. 

  • kfc.kfc. ✭✭✭
    Hello everyone. I found this thread at the start of the week and have spent the rest of it geeking out on all the great advice and debate going on here. I'm aiming for 3:3? and 'as close as I can get' to 3:30 in VLM this year (will be my 6th marathon, PB 3:42 last year at London).

    Amazed at some of the mileage you guys are racking up - and my main reason for piping up right now is to say a big thanks to you all for inspiring me to my first ever 30 mile week this week (I've never been great with the long runs). I'm hoping keeping reading about your progress will help it continue!
  • Dunno Minni. I've got a pain in my low stomach/hip/groin area which I am hoping is muscular and not something more serious. It feels like a pulled muscle and it's fine when I'm not running or swimming. I think I'll have another day off tomorrow and try again Monday evening.
  • Hi KFC - welll done on ypur first 30m week.
  • Managed an 8 mile run today, aiming to do the last 2 miles slightly faster.

     It was tough out there in the wind, and I don't think i'ts as bad here as most of the rest of the country, so well done everyone for keeping going in these conditions.

     I was feeling a bit under the weather before going out, decided to go anyway but found it quite hard to breathe today whereas the legs were feeling quite good. So I'm happy to have done what ended up being quite a tough session, disappointed to still be struggling with bugs, but pleased that if I hadn't been under the weather the signs were there that I should have been able to go faster.

     I'm also quite glad I'm not thinking of another marathon until the Autumn at the earliest, as I'd struggle if I needed to be doing the long runs. Well done to everyone for their 18 to 20 milers already notched up.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Welcome KFC! I've run a few marathons close to 3.30 off not much more than 30 miles per week -  but that's not the best way to do it!   I'm the opposite to you - I'm better on the long runs than the shorter ones.  I also think you grow in confidence with each marathon done.   What is your long run at the moment?  Are you following a schedule?

    Mr Spoons  keep an eye on that.  I'm a dab hand at diagnosing appendicitis - keep me informed!  I'm sure it'll just be a small pulled muscle though.  

    BecsA what a great place you're in - enjoying building up your mileage without the pressure of a marathon pending.  It sounds like you're doing great.  Have you got the backpack sorted?

  • Morning Folks

    Nice to see that our merry band is growing, welcome kfc. You certainlycan  run marathons off 30 mile weeks, I just did! but your not going to reach your full potential without putting in some miles, the old adage that "miles make champions" is too a certain extent true, though you still need speedwork.

    Spoons: Get thee self to the physio, my appointment is today!

    Becs: You never regret the runs you do its the ones you don't do that you regret, so give yourself a big pat on the back and feel smug.

    Good luck to all of you going long today, will probably trot 8 miles or so myself today.

  • Welcome KFC.

     I was going to do a 4 mile recovery run today to take me up to 30 mpw for my recovery week but decided to rest again- legs ache,mlate night and body teling me to stop. So hopefully I will be better next week with my half marathon at the end of it to test the progress. Plan is to do a 10 miler early in the week and a speed session than Thursday.

    Minni - hope your 20 goes well.

    Mr S - hope its nothing to serious

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    First 20 miles in the bag.  I had company for the first 17 then alone for the last 3. It was wet throughout but at least the wind is away and it was almost refreshing.  Average pace 8.42 (average moving pace 8.36 - not sure what difference this makes!).   Splits for 20 miles here.

    It felt comfortable throughout but I must admit I'm not looking forward to the 12 @ marathon pace next Sunday. 

    Hope everyone has had good runs, including you DD.

    AA do you have a time in mind for the half next week?  Your training is going really well and all these speedy treadmill sessions must stand you in good stead. 

    Mr Spoons How are you today? 

  • Minni: well done on the LT run as well as the long one today. That's a really good pace. I'm totally with you on the SSX and lack of commitment re. the forums. RW should learn from previous years and rather choose active forumites than random strangers. Hope you enjoyed the wine image

    Becs: my backpack is from Salomon and it's a laydeez fit, including a 2l Source bladder - if you go shopping, give this a try. I think it works a treat. Sounds like you are on the road to recovery. Chest infections can take an awful long time to clear.

    AA: excellent running and good on ya for listening to your body today.

    kiwirunner: I hate the wind too. Well done for sticking it out.

    Spoons: how u feeling today?

    Welcome KFC.

    Another 22 for me. It was pishing down with rain all the time and my waterlogged shoes must have weighed a ton. Can't really say that today was much fun. As for MP ... I don't even want to think about it image
  • Good 20 miles Minni, always nice to get one in the bag this early on.

    I agree with you Chickadee, although I do wonder if RW are that bothered. I guess without seeing traffic maybe they feel like the threads are achieving what they're supposed to. Maybe they think the rest of us are overly verbose bloggers! 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Chickadee - another 22?  How many have you done?!

    Yes, it was good to get that 20 under the belt.  After losing confidence a couple of weeks ago at the Brass Monkey, I'm starting to feel better about the running.  .... well, when its going well, you know image

  • Well done Minni / Chicka. Glad that the confidence is returning Minni, did you decide to enter the other 1/2M you were considering or did you decide to let it lie?

     I have to admit I had forgotten how tough long runs were in the cold and damp until I did a couple in the UK over xmas, much easier in the sun!  No need to worry about pace on LSR, I only managed 9-30 min / miles on the last 20 miler I did before Dubai, it had zero effect on the end result.

    I don't read the SSX threads so don'y have any opinion other than I would prefer to see regular forum posters chosen.

  • Hey Minni,

    Sounds like you had a good run today. I'm fine with the wind, but can't bear doing long runs in the wet - I just get cold to the bone and, well, just not keen. And I get too hot wearing a waterproof, don't you find? Snow would be preferable!

    What have got in the way of other races before your big day?


  • Minni and Chickadee good work on getting the long runs in today. Minni, are you still having stomach problems or have they stopped now?

    Minni wrote (see)

    BecsA what a great place you're in - enjoying building up your mileage without the pressure of a marathon pending.  It sounds like you're doing great.  Have you got the backpack sorted?

    Yes, although I feel much better now after managing the 8 miles yesterday, both because I've managed to build up the long run more easily than I expecting, showing I haven't quite lost all the fitness from the Autumn marathon training, and also because 8 miles is the point at which I know I can get round so the training now is about getting quicker and being able to get round in better shape. That motivates me more!

    I'm feeling some pressure though due to a rivalry with a friend who's running the same half as me and has a very similar PB. We've never run together before and we both tend to get competitive about things.

    I did 4 miles easy today, and took my current backpack with me to try it out although with not much in it. I think it'd be okay, it's well shaped so it didn't feel like it was affecting my posture, but it was jiggling around a bit so might not be so great with more weight in it. There are a couple of running shops near work so if I get time one lunchtime I'll have to go shopping. Chickadee, I'll look out for the Salomon's - thanks for the recommendation.

    Been trying to figure out my training plan for the next few weeks. Was wondering if it's better to go to a track for intervals, or is there anything wrong with just doing them on the road like I've been doing? 

  • I've been going to Steve MC's intervals on the track - it's so nice to run on the track. I know it's not realistic in terms of marathon surface, but I think its springiness really helps me to extend my stride and I can think about my form much more than I would on a road or a path. I try to translate this into my long runs too and I think it has really helped.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I think I will enter the half in March.  Its needs careful planning - I'm in the city that weekend for my sister-in-laws birthday celebrations which involves a private lounge and cocktail bar......    I'm happy to stay off the cocktails and opt for an earlier night in preparation for the half but I still have to tell the others without making me sound like a saddo!

    I'll also go for the 10k  2 weeks before the marathon.  I feel the need to get a couple of races under my belt, if only to bury the mistakes of the last one. 

    Krypto - I don't mind running in the rain - we get so much here.  As far as snow goes, we spent 5 weeks virtually block in a couple of months ago so I've seen enough of that for just now thank you! As for the jacket, I have one for every occasion and they're all breathable, which helps. 

    BecsA -  The tummy seems to have settled down a bit.  In fact its gone to the other extreme and I'm eating everything in sight!  I'm hoping it was all down to a bug that has now cleared. 

    I can't  help with a track because I don't have one near me.  I would say the road is just as good but its interesting what Krypto says about the springiness - might be worth trying both and reporting back?!

    What is your half pb/what are you hoping for? 

  • kfc.kfc. ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the welcome!

    Minni - did around 13 yesterday, with a 10, 10, 9 and 8 in the bag for previous weeks. Not much compared with some of the running you guys are doing, but so much better than I've managed before (usually I manage 2 or 3 runs of 4-6 miles a week, plus lots of days out cycling for base fitness, with only one or two runs of around 10 or 13 miles. Definitely not ideal as the lack of long runs mean my legs start feeling the impact from around 20M, and I lose speed despite feeling like I have the fitness. My goal this year is to avoid this!)

    No I'm not following a specific schedule - I prefer to build fitness by biking, swimming etc and don't have a lot of time to train, so I find it hard to follow a running only schedule. Instead I'm targeting a distance for a long run each week, and trying to run to/from work a few times each week (3M each way) rather than cycling. Thanks to some of the advice here I've been starting to push the pace on my run to work - definitely a fun way to start the day!

    Do any of you guys use other sports to build fitness or do you do it all by running?
  • I'm a bit intimidated by the idea of going to a track - both because I don't know anything about track etiquette and because I'm really slow over short distances - but might need to brave it some time. The springiness presumably means there's also less impact.

     KFC - DD knows much more about cross training than most from his triathlon experience, but I have noticed that when I was cycling to work I found my running progressed more quickly. However when I increased my running I then had to cut down on the cycling to make sure I was getting enough rest. I do pilates and yoga to help with flexibility and injury prevention, but find those take it out of me less so possible to do on a rest day.

  • Evening!

    Chick - all character building stuff. Well done on the 22 in the wind.

    Rest day for me today. I've been out from 6:30am - 8:30pm at daughters swimming gala so couldn't run anyway. I'll try tomorrow.
  • You can do intervals anywhere, road, track, football pitch it doesn't matter as long as you know the distance. I do intervals on track, road and treadmill, I prefer the track not because its sprung but because a) you feel as if your racing b) there are no cars other distractions / dangers.

    Cross training has benefits to a point in so as its much easier to recover and keep training by alternating swimming / running / cycling, it also obviously reduces impact BUT and its a very big BUT if you want to achieve your full potential at running you need to run. As far as marathon running goes there is no substitute for those 20 mile plus training runs and you aren't going to cope and recover from them unless your putting in the shorter aerobic runs as well. Your tendons / muscles etc only get used to the rigours of running by running.

    Another disadvantage of cycling is that it takes a long time to expend as much energy as running, I work on a ratio of 3 or 4 to 1 between cycling and running, thus I consider a 40K bike ride the rough equivilent of a 10K run.  I dont believe that  few 10 mile bike rides is going to help your running at all. The advantage of long bike rides and I'm talking about the 4 hour plus rides is that helps to teach your body to burn fat for energy, its also extended aerobic exercise but with a lower HR than running and no impact other than on your arse!

    Swimming is fine exercise, try doing 10 x 100M off 20 second recoveries in a pool its far harder than running reps but other than it gives you aerobic fitness its not going to help with your running very much.

    Minni: Glad that your doing the 1/2, I think it will do you good to race again. If its any consolation I'm used to being called a weirdo because I don't want to drink because I'm racing etc. Less of a problem than it used to be because I tend to socialise with other runners these days and their in the same boat. Of course my problem is that I race nearly every weekend, I'm definately a eggs in many baskets type of runner. But I like racing myself to fitness, its easier than speed work.

    My race schedule for the next few weeks reads 11/2 Sprint Tri, 18/2 1/2M, 25/2 Aquathon (10K run, 2K swim), 04/03 8K run, 12/03 Abu Dhabi International Tri (1.5/100/10), 18/03 1 mile swim race, 25/03 Sprint Tri, 02/04 10K,  09/04 6K, 16/04 Duathlon (10/40/2.5), 23/04 Duathlon (10/40/2.5), 07/05 8K.  That should keep me busy and fit, have to fit long IM rides in around that lot.

    Well done to all of you who did your long runs in the cold and wind, rather you than me!

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    kfc - what are your plans for extending your long run over the next few weeks?  If you've done 13 this weekend you could do say, 15 next weekend?  The long run is key to marathon training... unfortunately!  I cycle in the summer and do think it helps my fitness.  I was swimming once a week up till Christmas but have to use the time to run now.   I think the short runs to work are great - especially if you push the pace.

    BecsA - welcome to the 'really slow over short distance' club! image  I bet most people feel nervous about going to the track for  the first time regardless of their speed. 

    DD thanks for the cross training advice. When I first started cycling I couldn't feel any benefit to my running.  I then went and did a couple of sessions with a Tri club and realised I hadn't really been trying image.  Someone cycled just behind me and shouted and screamed the whole way! At the end I was in shock and nearly cried, but boy, did it teach me!

    I'll have to absorb your races - that is a lot of racing!

  • Minni: yesterday was my 2nd 22 miler. I seriously believe in them and I think the P&D schedules fall slightly short of a decent number of longer runs.

    Becs: I find intervals easier on the track - you don't have to worry about getting the distance right and there are no dogs getting in the way/youths pelting you with stones or hurling verbal abuse (I ran in an East London park when I lived in UK ... it wasn't always nice ...)

    THUD (that's me falling down to earth after seeing DD's race schedule).  Crikey, you have your work cut out, mate.

    OK, did my double-recovery session day today instead of a rest day. So I have tomorrow to squeeze in some intervals. I think it may get ugly ... can I join the 'no good over short distances' club, please?

  • chickadee - how many "over 18 milers" would you normally do? That's brilliant that you've already done 2x22.

    DD - fab race schedule - cross trining really works for you hey. Nice weather though helps!

    Minni - not sure what time to expect. Think I'm going to aim realistically for somewhere around 1h40. It really does depend on the weather in Wokingham because its quite exposed in parts.

    Well my legs were still seriously tired today after my 15 trail miles on Saturday and I was planning my 8x800s today, but I still did them after a warm up but didn't run them as fast as I normally would on the treadmill as Ive not a niggly right calf and not sure whether its just DOMS or that horrible "hope this isn't a tear" type feeling!!

    Went to a track once...just the once! Scary...

  • kfc.kfc. ✭✭✭

    The next 10 weekends of long runs look like this: 

    13/2: Target 17 (urgghh...)

    20/2: Target 13, but likely to be 6 (visiting friends who will struggle to run further with me)

    27/2: Target 18, but likely to be 0 (weekend away hiking)

    6/3: 13.1 (Eastbourne half)

    13/3:13.1 (Lydd half)

    20/3: 13.1 (Alloa half)

    27/3: 20 (Worthing race - 4x5M laps so I can bail if it gets too much!)

    3/4: Target 1510/4: 10k (Newham race)

    17/4: 26.2 (London marathon)

    I'll usually also get at least a 3 or 4 hour cycle in (road or mtb), I find this much easier to keep to as I have a partner in crime for biking, but when the runs get over 6 miles, its just me.  I've entered lots of races this year - precisely so I do the miles (and I like racing...) 

    Am already feeling the benefit though - legs feel fine today when last year after very light mileage in Feb it was taking me a week to recover from halfs in March. 

    Still amazed at the mileage here - chickadee, with that many long runs are your legs still relatively fresh in the last few miles of a marathon?  What do you find breaks down first? 

    DD - didnt realise there was that many races out there - have you got a target you are going for in the IM?

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