RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

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  • AH I think your referring to pace in your splits so am assuming that your 10K is around 43 mins which is plenty quick  enough for a 3-30 provided you have done the long runs and the speedwork.

    AA: Well done and welcome to the dark side, seriously its fun.

    Minni: IM is like running a sub 3-30, you have to believe, you have to buy into the dream. Through marathons, Comrades, Ridgeway and now a IM I have never once thought I couldn't do it, self belief, mental strength is every bit as important as training. BELIEVE.Failure is just not a option.

    Joddly; Picking fights with Moraghan isn't easy, so much of what he posts is correct its just that he is a bit prickly / politically incorrect. With regard to hills as a  wise old marathon runner once said to me you never make back what you lost on the uphills when going downhill, so learn to run uphill faster.

    MM: I'm sure that RW weren't aware that Alison was going on holiday for 3 weeks mid peak training, but isn't that a mistake that novice marathon runners make? The idea that you can somehow get by? The truth is that once you start chasing semi serious times that unless you are gentically gifted its all down to CONSISTENT hard work, I simply wouldn't book a holiday in the 3 months pre marathon if I wanted to achieve.

    sprint Tri was Ok 1 minute slower than last time, swim and run quicker, bike slower, T1 slower as took time to get wetsuit off (normally don't need one here) Anyway 1-26 for 750M swim/ 26K bike / 5.4K run 14-45/44-20/22-30 the rest was transistion. A ok day but not great.

  • I'm afraid I just lost it on the other threadimage I should have checked on here first and shown some of Sue's remarkable restraint. I blame my long run for giving me lots of thinking time to get annoyed.

    18 miles for me today: 6 easy to steady, 4 @ MP, 4 easy, 4 @ MP was the plan. I've not downloaded the data yet but I did 6 @ 8:45, 4 @7:50, 4 @ 8:33, 4 @ 8. My shoulder was painful for the last 8 miles but not unbearable and certainly no worse now. The first MP miles felt easy but the second lot were very tough.

  • Also agree relationship between ssx'er and mentor very important too
  • Don't we all assume as novices that we will simply continue to get better by just going out there and running? Eventually you stagnate, if your lucky you join a club, or read a book, or pay attention to the forums or otherwise you continue as was or give up.

    At some point many of the older posters on these forums took a long hard look at themselves and asked the question as to what exactly it was they had to do to improve. I well remember the moment I realised it wasn't just going to happen on its own it was after a very disappointing Dartmoor Discovery Ultra when I realised I simply wan't fit enough. At that moment I vowed to do everything I had to do to get better.

    My point is that I don't think that Alison on the other thread hasn't quite made that connection yet, the realisation that improving is going to be hard work hasn't quite sunk in. You either realise that there is no quick fit solution or you don't make it. Unfortunately in todays quick fix society the answers are supposed to be quick and simple without requiring any actual effort. You see that attitude everywhere in modern society.

  • Just got time for a quick post after my run and before I pick children up, in, like... 2 mins.

    16 mile with 12 at MP.  Did 4 @ 9.30 pace and felt tired with heavy legs.  Had arranged to meet my Man Friday and another Man Some-Fridays for the remaining 12  and they knew the score.  Paces:  7.53;  7.46;  7.53;  7.31;  7.41;  7.30;  7.56;  7.31;  7.49;  7.48;  7.51;  7.42  average pace: 7.44.  I simply wouldn't have managed it on my own and pleased its done.  I'd been feeling really  nervous about it for some reason.

    Be back later to catch up with the goings-on... 

  • Fantastic run, Minni - you must be deservedly well chuffed!

    (Maybe I'll stick to posting about running for a bit).
  • Minni - That's a corking run. You are on the way to a massive PB. Have a lovely relaxing evening and a glass of wineimage

  • Minni - storming splits there, smashing the MP.  What a great confidence boost!

    DD - think you just described where I am right now.  Done a few marathons, keep getting PBs and relatively respectable times, but never really committed to the training.  I've got lots of excuses and a nagging feeling I could go faster.  This forum has really sparked my motivation to properly commit this year (thanks again all), and I'm interested to see what happens...  (ps. on track for a 40mile week image )

  • Minni that's the reward you get for putting the hard work in. That run is a true reflection on your current fitness and was no fluke
  • Minni - fantastic! Hope you get a chance to sit back and relax later on.

    CG - your commitment when you're still not right is a lesson to everyone.

    As a Sports Therapist I see a lot of "keen" marathon runners who think they can easily knock 20 or 30 mins off their first couple of marathons by thinking alone. It rarely happens to te degree that they expect as they don't want to commit to training as hard as they need to to do it.

  • Well done Mini on such a fantastic run, you must be well chuffed image
  • great running Minni...........especially after feeling heavy legs at the beginningimage

  • Well done Minni - Fantastic run.

    My Lsr done tonight 18 miles at a nice steady pace - this is the 3rd 18 mile run and finished with a good uphill and knew I could of gone on.  Probably do a 7 mile race on Sunday.

  • I keep thinking about tri as I joined a swimming club last year. I 'm still rubbish compared to the masters but I'm loads betteer than I was and can comfortably swim FC for an hour non stop (100 lengths).

    I was going to sign up for a pool tri this summer, but I'm also thinking about my firat ultra. I have chosen one one the same day and the reality it, I'm a runner first. I also worry about the time and financial commitment as all the cyclists I know spend fortunes on gear and spend hours on loooong bike rides. With a young family I'm not sure I can commit to this yet.

    I'm having a night off tonight and am going to try a long run in the morning.

    Minni - well done on hosting a great thread. Good running too.
  • Dubai Dave wrote (see)
    Minni: IM is like running a sub 3-30, you have to believe, you have to buy into the dream. Through marathons, Comrades, Ridgeway and now a IM I have never once thought I couldn't do it, self belief, mental strength is every bit as important as training. BELIEVE.Failure is just not a option.

    DD are you American?!

    sprint Tri was Ok 1 minute slower than last time, swim and run quicker, bike slower, T1 slower as took time to get wetsuit off (normally don't need one here) Anyway 1-26 for 750M swim/ 26K bike / 5.4K run 14-45/44-20/22-30 the rest was transistion. A ok day but not great.

     How do you approach races DD, considering how many you do.  Are you always looking for an improvement, or is it easy to accept this is not always possible?   Wetsuit - is the sea cold over there at the moment?

    caterpillar girl wrote (see)

    I'm afraid I just lost it on the other thread<img src="/forum/smilies/embarassed_smiley.gif"> I should have checked on here first and shown some of Sue's remarkable restraint. I blame my long run for giving me lots of thinking time to get annoyed.

    18 miles for me today: 6 easy to steady, 4 @ MP, 4 easy, 4 @ MP was the plan. I've not downloaded the data yet but I did 6 @ 8:45, 4 @7:50, 4 @ 8:33, 4 @ 8. My shoulder was painful for the last 8 miles but not unbearable and certainly no worse now. The first MP miles felt easy but the second lot were very tough.
    CG its great to see you back running (and getting feisty!)  I feel there's an imbalance in the world when you're not reporting your epic runs.  I hope the shoulder continues to get better and you get back on track.  If today's session was anything to go by you've not lost much.
    Dubai Dave wrote (see)

    Don't we all assume as novices that we will simply continue to get better by just going out there and running? Eventually you stagnate, if your lucky you join a club, or read a book, or pay attention to the forums or otherwise you continue as was or give up. At some point many of the older posters on these forums took a long hard look at themselves and asked the question as to what exactly it was they had to do to improve. I well remember the moment I realised it wasn't just going to happen on its own it was after a very disappointing Dartmoor Discovery Ultra when I realised I simply wan't fit enough. At that moment I vowed to do everything I had to do to get better.

    That's me.  When I ran 3.43, then 3.41, then 3.31 I thought all I needed to do was continue running marathons and I'd continue to get faster.  I too have had to take a reality check and I'm pleased I did.<img src="/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif" alt="" title="" border="0">

    kfc - we both sound like we're at the same place with the above.

  • Thanks for the well dones for today's run. I do feel really pleased - when I met the boys I gave it the old 'I'm not feeling good', 'might be slow' etc and they pushed me on. I finished feeling really good but then a couple of hours later the doubts start to creep in.... could I have continued, what if I'd got cramp etc. Then I'm telling myself I couldn't have done that a couple of months ago.... us runners are never easy on ourselves...

    Spoons - good luck with the run tomorrow. I am very impressed with your swimming image
  • Minni - I know I'm better than average but the reality is compared to everyone else in the swim club I am rubbish! You should see my butterfly! I don't enjoy it as much as running, but I think the overall fitness benefits are probably better which is why I do it. I think it improves my running.
  • I hate swimming, hat off to you guys thinking of trying a tri.

    Have woken up with a head cold here image

    Planned run this morn p&d same as Mini's 16, with 12 at m.p. Going to head out still but will see how it goes, hate running with a blocked up nose!
  • The run might clear the blocked nose.  Good luck.  I'm so pleased I got mine out of the way yesterday.  My legs feel a bit stiff this morning!
  • Minni: great ruuning, well done, you are going to blow 3-30 apart.

    Minni wrote (see)
    DD are you American?! 

    As  a proud Cornishman I take exception to that remark, but you do have to believe there is no point in standing on the start line and thinking "maybe I will run 3-30 today" it has to be " I will run sub 3-30 today".

     How do you approach races DD, considering how many you do.  Are you always looking for an improvement, or is it easy to accept this is not always possible?   Wetsuit - is the sea cold over there at the moment?

    Minni: I don't look for improvement all the time, I hope for improvement but am philosophical about it all, you can't put in the training hours I put in and expect to PB without a rest. The sea is probably about 21C thats cold enough for me.

    Spoons: try a sprint tri I gaurentee there will be folks on mountain bikes, yes you can spend a fortune on bikes but you don't have to. You don't need to cycle loads for sprint and Olympic tri's. And your swimmimg is plenty good enough, you will be mid pack.

    I was out on my bike for 5.5 hours this morning in a sand storm, still spitting out sand.

  • Dubai Dave wrote (see)

    Don't we all assume as novices that we will simply continue to get better by just going out there and running? Eventually you stagnate, if your lucky you join a club, or read a book, or pay attention to the forums or otherwise you continue as was or give up.

    At some point many of the older posters on these forums took a long hard look at themselves and asked the question as to what exactly it was they had to do to improve. I well remember the moment I realised it wasn't just going to happen on its own it was after a very disappointing Dartmoor Discovery Ultra when I realised I simply wan't fit enough. At that moment I vowed to do everything I had to do to get better. My point is that I don't think that Alison on the other thread hasn't quite made that connection yet, the realisation that improving is going to be hard work hasn't quite sunk in. You either realise that there is no quick fit solution or you don't make it. Unfortunately in todays quick fix society the answers are supposed to be quick and simple without requiring any actual effort. You see that attitude everywhere in modern society.

    Very good point, and I think I'm only beginning to grasp that with my training. The issue is though, unless I'm wrong, Alison is only training for her second marathon and it can be hard to grasp the reality until you've arrived at the finish line without carving off the chunk you'd imagined.

    Sue totally agree about the value of choosing regular contributors. I wonder if the winners (in all years) grasp how much it's about the forum, or if they just think it's a prize from a magazine. The other huge benefit in my point of view is that you can appreciate more how people are gaining from the mentors. If you know nothing about them as a runner and little about how they trained for previous marathons it's more difficult to judge were gains are being made and what they could be down to.

    It does sound like RW are trying to iron out some of the issues (while also inserting new ones) and to be brutal I do think holiday should have been taken into account.  

    Any Minni, apologies for derailing, but also it goes to show what a great thread you and DD are running. 

  • As  a proud Cornishman I take exception to that remark, but you do have to believe there is no point in standing on the start line and thinking "maybe I will run 3-30 today" it has to be " I will run sub 3-30 today"

      'Failure is not an option' is a standard quote I use to my children (in an American accent) which comes from our visit a few years ago to the Kennedy Space Centre. Its very inspiring to say but my children usually just roll their eyes!!!

    Wobbled I would be jittery if I had a holiday planned right now simply because I am 100% focused on this goal.  I have a girls weekend (actually only one night) in a couple of weeks ago and I'm even feeling anxious about that and making sure I can still fit all my runs in!

  • Copied from the marathon thread:

    20 miles done and dusted this morning in the rain. A mixture of on and off road. Average pace 9:34. I found it tough after some time off and the two clubmates I was running with kept sprinting off too fast. I feel great now it's over of course. I'm back! image
  • I think you can accept that you might miss a week due to illness or innjury somewhere in the schedule and hope you are lucky...............a holiday unless you are strict can be too much............2 years ago I went on hioliday for whitsun for the week with the family.at a peak training week for Ironman...........

    On one day I dissappeared at 6 am for an 8 hour bike ride..............on other days I was out at 6 am to fit in my runs before they woke up.( doing this on alternating days with my OH as he likes to get his runs in)............I did my one long run the day before going on holiday and I did the other the day after I got back.......I managed to keep up training with as minimal discuption to the family as possible..........although I did nod off in the afternoon after a lunchtime pint on a few daysimage

  • Well done Mr Spoons, great news that you are back into it.

    Tried the m.p within 16 miles, wasn't a complete disaster - did a 5 mile warmup at 9.17 and last 11 averaged at 8.15. Pleased considering + legs felt strong. Best part - now i can have a lie in tmrw, instead of getting up early for a long run image
  • Seren - sounds like my holidays (although I don't bike). 3.5 hour long runs cause enough family disruption.
  • Kiwi: Nice effort

    Spoons: Glad that your back on track

    Seren / Spoons : I always  train on holiday unless I'm skiing which is training on its own, out the door by 0500 and no one is any the wiser!

  • Spoons - great run after your time off, and as you say, even better now its over!  Will you be back on schedule next week?

    Kiwi - you will enjoy that lie in in the morning!  Brilliant running with your head cold.  I think the next MP run is not for about another 4 weeks.  Thank goodness!

    I almost never run on holiday.  I always intend to be cba when it comes down to it.  I did run twice in America last year but it was so hot I could only manage a couple of miles at the most. 

  • Minni - I think/ hope I'm OK and will do a full week, although I may take the speedwork sessions a little easier than normal. I'll see how I go.
  • Mini/D.D, thanks. I am now armed with super strength multi vits + sudafed from Boots. I for one am glad that P&D has a recovery week scheduled for next week.

    Good luck everyone else for your long runs/races tomorrow.
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