RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • Thank you, that does make sense, I'm taking notes.
  • Minni - There seems to be talk of a 40th anniversary tour in 2013 but no official dates. I could only find some tribute bands. Watching again on my OH's ipad. Now where's my school uniform!
  • In bed drinking tea. Slightly hungover but not much. Should I go to park run or should I drift off back to zzzzzz.......

  • Hungover and sick, enough saidimage

  • What did you decide on spoons?

    I'm still trying to talk my OH in to going for a run or walk......but I don't think it's going to happen!

    Hope you overcome your hangover soon DD
  • Morning everyone

    Managed to abandon the Christmas party before it went all downhill so happy to report no dirty dancing and no hangover. Very proud of myself.image

    Just finished reading Chrissie Wellington's 'A life without limits' and feeling totally inspired. What an amazing woman.

    It's looking nice out there for my 5m xc later.
  • You keep believing what you want to believe Spoons - for me speed work and tempo running are absolutely key to setting pbs and my HR stats have shown that my aerobic engine improves even when I'm not doing the slow stuff. I do think HADD style stuff has its place and I will go back to it for a bit but it's not a time efficient way to train. I do find it frustrating that you constantly twist the facts (ie conveniently forget the 11 and a half mins I took off my HM PB on Furman or the fact that I've only been running 20-25 miles a week of intense stuff since May yet still smashed my HM PB this autumn) to suit your own pre-conceived ideas.
  • One size definitely doesn't fit all. Running long and slow makes me very good at running long and slow. I'm naturally weak in terms of speed and if I don't work on it I lose it. No amount of slow running will make me faster. Tried and tested. I took it very easy and slowly after Copenhagen and it did nothing for me, I actually went backwards. We've agreed on it with Moz and will do more speedwork early on in the schedule this time round. But that's just me, it might work differently for others.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Everyone's different. You definitely couldn't get the PBs Daren's got without the speedwork. If all you do is slow running then you're not going to get any faster but it's getting the right mix of easy and quality to suit the individual. I don't worry about the paces of my long or easy runs now because I know the key to me achieving a faster marathon is the speed work, whereas someone else would have that sorted and need to work more on the HADD type running. Daren, for example if he was marathon training.

    We're all just an experiment of 1, as someone said the other day.

    I'm heading to the hills now for 7m and to see what conditions are like ahead of a proposed 12m fell race tomorrow.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    X post Brolish - we are very similar. Perhaps we could negotiate a discount and share the same schedule!image
  • Lol Minni, I think it could work!image
  • That was my point really - that there could possibly be more than one way to improve! I personally think my HM PBs this autumn have more to do with the long tempos and improving my speed endurance than the HADD stuff. I do think it has it's place though and I will go back to it cos it's nice to have a change as much as anything.

    Anyway, didn't mean to sound so arsey, still got this man flu and toothache so not in the best of moods this morning!
  • Don't be arsey Daren!

    I don't for a second advocate giving up speedwork or tempo runs. Getting PBs like Daren's needs speedwork and tempo runs. I just think that in marathon training especially, most people do their LSRs to quickly and their faster stuff too slowly and end up running everything at the same pace. 

  • Minni wrote (see)
    Ho Ho HOompa wrote (see)

     5 miles on TM for me last night and it was awful.image 1st mile @ 8.00 min/ml, 2nd mile @ 7.00 min/ml then had to jog/walk the next mile as i had a strange tingling/ache right along the length of both feet coupled with aching left ITB???image Managed to get "back in the saddle" so to speak and did the last 2 miles @ 8.00 min/ml pace but it was far from easy.

    Of course it wasn't easy!  You're trying to get back from injury and every time you  run you're getting aches and pains.  You have to SLOW down!  That is too fast!  Neither wonder you're getting pains.  Honestly, slow right down and test everything out and only start to introduce a bit of speed when you're sure everything is ok.  Even if it does take weeks.

    What is it with men that they have to always go so fast?!! image

    DD and others,  Sarah is a GP. (*whispers* perfect ! exactly what we need on this thread). So perhaps she can help out with the manflu that affects so many.  Maybe she has a vaccination......


    sarah osborne 4 wrote (see)
    Hahaha, thanks minni, the cats out of the bag now....had better start reading up on sport injuries! Man flu.... well thats a special illness, despite the high prevalence, we just haven't got to the bottom of why it only incapacitates men making them bed ridden with no real signs of illness!

    I agree with minni HHH, I've only been running a couple of years but coming back from injury and running 7min/ml sounds a recipe for disaster! I don't do any speed training if I have any or have just recovered from any twinges.

    Like Simon says though it could be something as simple as tight shoes (fingers crossed), it's happened to be once when I had my laces far to tight. Seemed to be worse on inclines!

    Hope your next run is more successful

    I consider myself officially told off! image

    I lose speed really quickly though if i don't do at least one tempo run per week, preferably an interval run as well.

    Plan is for 12 miles SLOWimage tomorrow morning, so we'll see if i get "funny feet" again?

  • Also there is a definite place for MP work in long runs, but not in all long runs and not until January as we are currently in base training. 

    This morning's park run was 5km of mud and hills. More of a XC race really. I did 23:41 which sounds rubbish but actually isn't that bad for the course and conditions. 

  • Sarah- you ran 12m at your target mara pace at this stage and it felt ok? Wow, you might want to revise that target! What pace did you run @ exactly?
  • Good luck tomorrow HHH with the SLOW 12miles, fingers crossed you will have more "happy feet" rather than "funny feet".

    I do like a bit of cross country....makes the road racing much more easier!

    Brolish, someone else has just said the same too, although as I only did my first marathon in 3:47 the thought of a sub 3:30 sounds challenging enough as I know how much I struggled with those last 6 - 10 miles. What would you have recommended? I was running a 7:50 min/miles.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Are daren and  spoons fighting?  Its ages since we've had a fight on the thread!

    Sarah - 7:50 is faster than MP for a sub 3:30 marathon.  As has just been said you need to make sure you run your easy stuff easy and the fast stuff fast.  Its all about balance.   Your easy miles probably need to be closer to 9m/m.  I know that will feel so much slower but honestly its worth it.  Both myself and Brolish when through a period of having to slow down our longer runs and it was almost wrist slashing stuff but we would both now agree it is the right thing to do.

    I wouldn't get too hung up on your marathon time right now.  Wait and see how you feel come Feb/March.  I am concentrating on the BM at the moment and my sessions are based around that, with marathon training probably starting in a couple of weeks time.  I'll use my race times between January and March to see what kind of time is realistic for the marathon. 

    I'm opting out of the fell race tomorrow after doing 7 in the hills with this to run on:


     will do 16 lsr instead.

  • That looks life threatening!

    Thanks minni, i will take my next long run a bit steadier. I guess apart of me wants a good time/PB for BM next year, but the marathon is my biggy so I should really be putting that first, so I will slow down.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sarah - you'll still get a good time/PB at BM with this kind of running so long as you're doing some quality sessions too.  Last year I went from 1:36 to 1:32 in one go after just a few months of running like this.   Remind me again what your PB is?

  • image shit, Min, that looks well scary!! My 10k course may look similar tomorrow. It"s compacted snow right now at -5 degrees but a warm font with rain is expected tomorrow morning and we all know what that means! They may cancel it tomorrow morning, who knows.

    Dubai Dave wrote (see)
    Just back from social pished and unable to speak anymore with sore throat But didn't didn't do dirty dancing!

    disappointed in you, DD image

  • Minni - What's the matter with you? I thought you northern lassies were tough??image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    We are tough Oompa but we're not stupid!image

    Chick - careful if conditions are bad tomorrow.

    Slightly concerned that we haven't heard from O4S for a couple of days.....
  • SBC I hope they do cancel your run in those conditions, it sounds suicidal!

    Minni, my PB for a half is just under 1:36, course was undulating and it was shortly after a 2 week holiday and a break from running (wasn't safe to go on my own, had no one to go with and there was no gym at my hotel, it was awful, i was like a bear with a sore head). What would you suggest for the other quality sessions?
  • Sarah- what I'm trying to say is that if you can run 12m at this pace before you even started training and are finding it rather easy I think you have a good chance of smashing your target. Looks like your hm time is also up for an updateimage Have you heard of 'Advanced Marathoning' by Pfitzinger and Douglas? If not, I would definitely add it to your Christmas shopping list. It has great schedules and lots of useful info. A few of us used their schedules and have been very successful. Even if you end up being coached and get a programme written for you it's still worth giving it a read.
  • The grey seals are all having their pups at the minute so we've been out for a walk this afternoon having a look. Very cute. 

    Off to running club Xmas party tonight and I may have a beer or three....

  • 5m xc done. Mr B didn't want to let me back into the house again, too muddyimage And then I had a long hot bath (sorry Shaggy!).

    I actually really enjoyed it today. Was told not to race it by the boss but run at around MP effort. Probably went harder than that but held back a bit which was nice for a change. My usual approach to xc is to go out like a bat in hell and try to hold on for dear life which guarantees a rather painful experience.
  • Chick- good luck tomorrow if it goes ahead and be careful!
  • Aw, thank you Brolish. I havent heard of it but i will certainly add it on to my ever expanding Christmas gets longer every year, although this year most of it's content is running related. Congratulations on a good run.

    Spoons, The seals sound lush, adult seals scar me a little but the pubs are so cute. Hope you have fun at your Xmas party.
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