RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • AA - Which Fink plan are you following? I'm going to try the competitive plan, lots of training by HR so will have to be very disciplined, my IM is 18 Jun so plan starts November. So I'll be running by Novemberimage. Keep that GFA place, getting in on the ballot is nigh on impossible after they changed the entry limit.

    Nell - Hope you're fully recovered, good luck and enjoy.

    Chick - Open water swimming is definately more fun, be careful with your wetsuit choice, as a female you will be naturally more bouyant and it is possible to be too high in the water. Agreed my hip problem seems worse after long periods of sitting down, but fortunately my job doesn't involve lots of sitting. 

    2old - Looks like a normal taper.  Look out for the sniffles this week.

    So no VLM for me next year, kinda gutted and I only know of one person who got a ballot entry, and she hates running!!! I think the ballot odds have changed from 1 in 5 to 1 in 20.  So if I want to get in I need to run faster.  Looking at the positive it means I can concentrate on IM but will I miss doing a spring marathon. Still biking/swimming and gyming. Hip is definately better so getting there.

  • Nell - really hope Amsterdam went well for you today. 

    Chick - I was doing circuits all summer. And now if I miss a few weeks i ache for days after! I much prefer open water swimming. 

    2old - sounds like the perfect taper! My only thinking was if I got somewhere around 3:30 fit then 3:45 would be more probable. Bit like you say it's unlikely. I think I might do a half in February or march and decide after that. 

    Barry - I'm still reading Be Iron Fit and haven't got to the training plans yet. But like you say lots of HR training...I've got a bit of swim coaching from my ironman training partner tomorrow whose a bloody excellent swimmer in exchange for a sports massage image . I need to sort my technique out before I do much more. I've got a 73 mile sportive in 2 weeks so that's my next goal. And I think I need to get another bike fit! all good funimage

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    AA-if you can put in some decent running in your IM plan you can get  into GFA shape... not long ago you were shelling them like peas .I like the sound of the IM sessions I've read about where you do 2-3 hours on the bike then run 17 miles straight after.imageWould be interested to hear what the IM guy says about improving your swimming.... all tips welcome

    Barry-I'm not sure if the aches and pains are taper madness or my age.Sad you wont be at VLM but you do have a tough target to aim for . Will you do a 'training marathon' along the way?Good to see your niggles are resolving but be careful on your return ,not that I'd take any notice of such advice

    Nell-how did it go in Amsterdam?

    Just a 5k yesterday-7.29 mm av including a 8.19mm warm up. Rest today. Looks like it will be cold and wet on Sunday-dont mind the cold but could do without the wet.



  • 2old - these marathons are ticking round quickly for you this year! Is that number 5 for the year?! 

    so my ironman girl  said I'm not rotating from the hip enough, my head comes out too high to breath, my arms should be horizontal in the water when they enter, my hips need to be higher, my ear needs to be on my shoulder and rotating by the time I bend my elbow and drag. All bloody complicated stuff. The mind boggles!!!

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    AA- only 3 so far, Sunday will be 4.Never done that many in a year but seems nothing compared with some I follow on Strava who do one a week. Your swim coach says the same as my golf coach ...they must both use the same manual .

    Recovering from a very unpleasant massage at the mo. 6 miles later which may be on the TM if this rain continues
  • 2old - Only 3 , with 4 on Sunday is still impressive. Really tempted by spring marathon, was thinking about Barcelona(enjoyed it last time) heart is saying yes but head is saying no, bigger picture.

    AA - Your swimming times are very good already but always room for improvement,  but if you look at some of the elites the technique isn't great, Harry Wiltshire for example is normally first out of the water  but uses a straight arm and not high elbow catch,  I'm just happy getting out if the water.image

    Nell - ?

    Shock Horror -  I ran this morning, don't get too excited only 5 mins very slow jog on treadmill after swim and gym


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    Barry- great news about your TM run. Must have gone well if you are thinking of a spring marathon. Agree what you say about swimming. It's a strange art.

    Did a bit over 10 k last night on the TM , 7.30 mm av and just under 8 today ,6.57mm av with a 20.17 ,5k tucked in the middle. Just a few jogs to do.Looks like pace won't be a problem on Sunday but I have real doubts about my endurance. I'm really unsure what my target will be. Any ideas?
  • Hi Guys, Sorry we had a few extra days at Amsterdam. Busy doing the usual city break stuff and then off to see a cult band The Bathers last night...

    Hi AA, Swimming sounds far too complicated for me. I think if I ever mix it will be a Duathlon. Although one of the guys at work is into cycle-cross and that looks interesting, I may try and get along as he will lend me a bike.... I read a Matt Fitzgerald's book on HR Training. I am not completely sold but intrigued.

    Hi Barry, Sorry to hear on London...Manchester?

    Glad to hear you are getting slowly back into the running...easy does it

    Hi 2old, Sounds like you are in good form for Leicester. Hoping all the niggles fall away....

    Anyway. We set off to Amsterdam last Friday night and arrived at the apartment in the centre of the city right next to the canal. Super old apartment!

    Saturday spent at the Anne Frank House and then down to the Expo. I was still not sure whether I would be able to make it around the course. I had ran a paranoid 2 miles on the Friday and that was it. I saw a few things in the Expo I liked but did not commit as I thought it would tempt disaster. The Expo was open until 1400 on the Sunday so promised myself a hoodie if I finished on Sunday.

    Sunday morning got up, things felt ok, carb loaded and then headed down to the start. Staying in the centre it was just a 20 min tram ride to the Olympic stadium. Arrived and dropped my bag off, very well organised and as you leave and finish at the stadium, you are picking up your bag where you left it. I had a heat pad on the back and took a couple of ibrufen just before the start.

    I started off and to be honest not sure how the runners were assembled as there seemed abilities of all sorts in my pen. Which suited me as we started I just went with the flow. I was just aiming to run on feel and try and enjoy things. As we started off I felt good and for the first few kilometres was just enjoying the crowds and high fiving the kids which was really lifting me.

    Mile 1-2 was 7:29 & 6:59 which was fine I wasn't really worrying. It is a bit congested on those first 2 miles anyway.

    Miles 3-12 I was varying between 6:40-6:50 and felt really ok and when there was a crowd interacting with them and the weather was great nice sunny day about 13-15 degrees. splits: 6:45, 6:38, 6:44, 6:44, 6:50, 6:45, 6:41, 6:53, 6:44, 6:49 I was really quite surprised at these splits and was just going with the flow.

    Mile11-12 A Bellahouston Runner came up by the side of me and we discussed our injuries, he was aiming for sub 3 but wasn't sure. I advised him to go on as I was no way going there. I just wanted to finish. At Mile 13 I felt the upper glute lower back start threatening so from there I knew I had to just try and manage this. This was coming back down the Amstel towards Amsterdam centre. I still felt good but eased slightly and found doing this just left the injury far in the background as a reminder it was there and nothing more. No pain. Miles 13-21 7:01, 6:57, 6:53, 6:50, 6:51, 6:58, 7:00, 7:05, 7:01.

    Into Mile 22, I started feeling things a bit more and a little bit of ITB made its presence on the left leg, but I was keeping some interaction with the crowd and found when you are smiling you seem to get a shout!

    At water stations I was just going over to the left and stopping for a drink (cups) as I wasn't worried about hitting a particular time. I thought why knock yourself out for a couple of seconds.

    At mile 23 (about 22.5) the 3 hr pacer passed me of which I was quite surprised. but I had no inclination to chase him I just carried on enjoying the moment confident that I could finish this race now. I had saw the family at mile 15 and kicked myself that I didn't go over for a hug. At mile 24 I was surprised to see them again, so I

  • Part 2


    At mile 24 I was surprised to see them agin, so I went over and had a hug. My wife actually thought I was coming over to throw in the towel and was going to send me away!
    Miles 22-26.2: 7:25, 7:33, 7:47, 7:39,8:00,2:12
    The last few miles slowed down through managing the injury and tiredness. But on the whole was still enjoying things and when I could trying to offer encouragement to other runners who were struggling. By this time a lot of runners were passing me..
    Coming through VondelPark at the end was nice and you could hear the crowd at the stadium. Then out of the park and down the home straight to the stadium. On to the track and then finished.
    A strange marathon, I expected to be in a lot of pain and that never materialised thankfully. I enjoyed the marathon and of the two marathons this year this was the one I enjoyed the most and of all marathons ran this is the one I really feel the most achievement from.

    Finish Time : 3:05:22

    So off I went to buy my sweatshirt once I found my legs!

    Amsterdam is a good marathon course. the conditions on the day were PB friendly too. If it was windy, that could cause problems on the Amstel river part. The city itself is great and people friendly. Myself I am really pleased with the result, well more than pleased as a week earlier I thought this would not happen.

    As I sat up at 0200 in the morning on the easy chair of the apartment looking out onto the canal as the DOMS had kicked in. I had a lovely big cheesy grin on my face image

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Nell- glad you survived the trip...we thought you'd got lost in the red light area or buying tulips. Looks like you did the right thing running conservatively - eventually-avoiding injury , having an enjoyable run and after all that achieving a very good time . I wondered if the wind could be a problem after experiencing it sight seeing there a few weeks ago. Still it's a race I'd like to do year maybe. What's next on your list ?

    Rest day for me. Not enjoying this taper .

  • Nell - what a well run sensible marathon. You did so well to reign it in and run on feel. The stadium is a nice finish hey! Glad you got your hoody!

    2old - are you aiming for a pb? and taper madness is kicking in if you are questioning your endurance!! You have bucket loads of that now...

    barry - go you on the treadY!! Hope it all felt ok and no after affects. Come back slowly. 

    52 miles and 2200ft on the bike for me today. Hit 6 nasty hills but managed to get up then all. Legs felt tired this afternoon. Swim tomorrow...gonna practice my new technique image

  • HI 2old, Hope you are feeling good for Sunday? The weather is looking not too bad...Yes thoroughly recommend Amsterdam. everything about the trip worked out just fine image

    If I am not back on again as I have some scheduled work tomorrow which could turn into a nightmare...Good Luck Sunday image

    Hi AA, Yes I enjoyed the stadium...well done on the 52 miles. I have been to the shop to buy a new cycling helmet today as my son lost mine... must make the effort and get out on the bike more!

    Next up for me, resting this week, I have the Lasswade X-Country on 30 Oct and then the Mens 10K in Edinburgh on 6 Nov. So I will just try and keep ticking over for them. Not going to knock my pan out though. Main objective is to get fully over the injury image


  • Nell - Great report, very well run race, and a time most of us can only dream of even when fully fit. Successful race if you have a big grin after  Think i'm going to bite the bullet and so no to a spring marathon though that will probably change several times over the next few months.

    AA - impressive bike miles.

    2old - Good luck and enjoy for Sunday.

    15 mins slow treadmill this morning.image

  • Barry - remember the 10% rule with the running. Hope it's going ok. 

    2old - good luck tomorrow. Hope all goes to plan. 

    28 miles on the bike this morning. Run planned for tomorrow. Swim on Monday. Fun all this mixing it up stuff!!! 

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    AA- excellent cycling by you the last couple of days. You'll need them with the long winter on its way .The variety of tri training is fun. Not going to be a pb attempt tomorrow , I'm just going to go with the flow.

    Barry - thanks. Enjoyment will be my plan. Happy to see another run for you

    Nell - once this is over I'm going to tick over too as I've got too many niggles going on especially my hip/back . Was there a big crowd in the stadium ? So you go and see cool bands and I go a different way- saw the Four Tops, The Temptations and Tavares last night and the fact I knew so many songs indicated how old I am.

    Now in Leicester and about to look for somewhere to eat. Not sure I will get much sleep as there's a big wedding going on at my hotel. Maybe I'll gate crash.
  • Hi 2old, Hope you got some sleep and good luck today. I quite like The Temptations image....Yes there was a big crowd in the stadium it was really busy as the HM started around 1330-1400. I didn't envy them on that as it had warmed up by then!

    Weather is not looking too bad for you this morning...

    Hi AA, You seem to be enjoying things again which is great to hear image

    Hi Barry, Progression being made on the running? I understand on the changing mind. Maybe once you get back to running and get a good base in over the Autumn/Winter you can make a call?

    Long day working yesterday, going to try and get my son out on the bikes this morning. Nice morning here, I am resisting the run image

  • Well done, Nell. Lovely race report too. Hope you massage to get rid of the injury.

    AA: that swim talk sounds like my coachimage I can to the rotating part fine on my strong (right) side but struggling with the left. Same with the high elbow. Not easy, this swimming lark...  I've booked another technique course starting on 31 October.

    Busy week at work but I got some good mix of training in. 5 miles plus yoga on Monday, spin class + short run Tuesday, 6 miles Wednesday, circuits Thursday, swim on Friday, bike ride + 3 miles yesterday. Nearly froze to death on the bike. How do people manage long rides in winter?? I wore wind stopper tights + jacket, an icebreaker merino underneath, buff and gloves, but was frozen to the core after 2 houes.image

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    I am now a big fan of Leicester. Had a very enjoyable race today .....quite low key for a change ...went into it pretty laid back about expectations and ended up with 3.05.49. image45th overall and 4th in the 50plus age group. My second fastest marathon this year/ever.The hardest parts of it all were the drives there and back...I hate the M6 in Cheshire image. Enjoying a beer now. Report to follow. 

    Nell - must have been quite a buzz running in the stadium . I ran in and out of  the Warrington WolvesRugby stadium in a HM last year a bit pointless really 

    Chick- I followed you run for years in sub zero conditions without a single complaint From you ...what's happened image?

  • Well done, 2old image And you nearly didn't go ... 

    Swim this morning. I actually overtook 2 blokes who were even slower than me image or maybe I'm getting better. Yeah, right ...

  • Hi Chick, Looks like you are getting a good mix there. Hopefully the less running miles and cross training will be just the tonic for you? Glad to see you are back enjoying things, and I will take the latter are getting faster image

    Hi 2old, well done on the marathon that is a great time and place image Glad you enjoyed the run...very interesting on your approach. As I was out for 2 weeks before Amsterdam and still not sure whether I would finish I had the same laid back approach and believe it really helps. I approached London looking at a time this year. Yes, I finished 2:56 and a PB, but out of the two marathons this year I view Amsterdam as the achievement and most enjoyable. Actually I view Amsterdam as my biggest achievement in marathons....meant to say Barry, I did not take the Amsterdam time lightly, really pleased with it, as I didn't think I would get anywhere near that time. But like 2old, I believe it is how we approach these events...

    Where did you start and finish in Leicester 2old?

    Yes stadium was a good finish as AA mentioned, especially with the crowd.

    Took my son out for a cycle yesterday and that was about it. Must look at getting some running in this week as I have a 10k cross country this Sunday. Need to get stretching. Still  a few aches here and there. image

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    I wasn't sure if I was going to run Leicester Marathon until two weeks ago having just come back from two weeks holiday. I'd trained on the treadmill whilst away but hadn't done any long runs and found the 20 miler on my return pretty tough and I was only left with a two week taper. Anyway I realised I was overthinking it and decided to give it a go. The usual taper niggles and sleepless nights made me feel less than confident even if my final runs were fast and felt comfortable. 

    My hotel was a fifteen minute walk from my hotel which was just as well as I overslept on the morning of the race. I arrived at Victoria Park in good time and had a chat with a few people and decided that I would aim for just under 3.15 and see how I got on. It was chilly and there was a light drizzle- perfect.  The start area was relaxed and we were soon away. The first six miles was shared with the half marathon runners but there was no congestion. Mile 1 was downhill though  I held back ,I didn't want to destroy my quads so early. I had to hold myself back as I felt the pace was too slow and resolved to stay around 7.10 mm. We were running into the wind and I hoped it would push me along on the way back- it didn't. After about 3 miles I was running and talking to a guy from London who was aiming for 3.08 a new pb. I said I  expected to blow up towards the end as happened in Liverpool .We ran together for six miles but he decided to slow his pace and I went on. The splits for the first 6 miles were 6.54,7.07,7.06,7.02,7.00,6.57 easily on target if not a bit fast. 
  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Leicester report part 2-


    At this point the the half marathoners split off to their return and we went off into the country. Now I was running with a guy in an orange t shirt and another in a yellow top and we stuck together for the next 12 miles or so with Orange often taking the lead until he pulled on ahead of us. The route was undulating but there were no serious hills and the variation seemed to suit me . I expected a decent hill at the 14th mile but didn't really notice it.  Half way came and I saw my time was about 1.32. If I could maintain this I might finish with a decent time. The route continued to wind along lanes through the pretty country villages with marshals controlling traffic where roads crossed.By the 20th mile I'd left Yellow top behind. The splits to this point were 7.02,7.09,7.02,6.58,6.55,7.00,7.00,6.56,7.05,7.02,7.00,6.57,7.08,6.59.  At this stage the race winded through a country park, very pretty ,lakes ,statues and traffic free and from there we were soon into another park. By this time I had caught and passed Orange and started passing a few others. A Marshall said I was 56th so that made the next few miles interesting. I was passed by a Stilton Runner and thought I'd try and keep him in sight.I wasn't keen being beaten by a cheese.The next 3 splits were 7.07,7.13 and 7.06  By now we were in the last 3 miles and going through the city. After a few subways which slowed me up I was running through the modern pedestrian shopping area past shoppers and people in cafes and bars. The route was starting to go up hill and at this stage I passed Stilton and several of the half marathon stragglers.  The final mile went up a narrow passage through the pretty Georgian section of the city .The spectators ' support pushed me up that hill and soon I reached the road at the top with 0.2m to go. I stopped briefly then pushed to the finish.My garmin said 3.05.50 and I was very happy. My final splits were 7.18,7.28,7.27 and 6.57. I finished 45th overall and 4th in the 50plus age group and a slightly positive second half.It was my second fastest marathon in 16 years after VLM in April ( ps London finished in 3.12. ) I'm glad I decided to run this marathon. It was very friendly ,low key ,very well organised, well marshalled , reasonable support along the way ,an interesting and varied route , not over hilly but not too flat- definitely a pb route. 

    Finish time 3.05.49.  

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Nell- started  and finished in Victoria Park. A bit like liverpools Sefton Park only smaller. I see you only beat me by a few seconds image. I learnt a lot from this one too. 

    1. Pacing correctly -evenly-makes the final few miles less painful  2. Trust the training  3. Consistent mileage is best  4. Don't worry about a short taper 5. Chill it's only running 6. Carbo load and hydrate properly and rest  the day before ....don't underestimate how much  you need. 7Drink little and often throughout the race. 8. Use others to pull you along so you can relax your concentration.

    Now I want to do another. April seems too far off. 

  • Perfect pacing 2old. Wowzers. I get the thing about being relaxed. If I ever get running fit again I won't care about a time anyway. No matter what I get - it'll always be a post-injury PB image

    Were there really half marathon runners still on the course as you were approaching the final couple of miles image? Jeepers, but they must have been mega slow...

    Spin class & short run on treadie this morning. I seem to hate treadmills less these days image

  • 2old - very impressive, think you nailed it.

    chick - your swimming is coming on well, i'm loving the TM.

    30 mins easy indoor bike and 30 mins easy TM yesterday.  swim and gym this morning.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Barry-thanks,its good when it all falls in place rather than apart. Looks like you are learning to love the TM as well as Chickimage. This weekend I'm off to the part of the world where you are doing your IM next year.

    Chick-yes there were a lot of HM runners towards the end.I think I passed the first of them about 5 miles from the end.Respect to them for getting out there. Looks like you are developing a talent swimming.

    5 miles recovery yesterday and 8 today-a bit faster than I intended-7.14mm av including a warm up mile. I planned to swim but couldn't face the pool full of half term holidaying kids 

  • Hi 2old, Great review and well run. Good points there, number 5 was the big one for me in Amsterdam!

    Back into the running already. ever thought of a rest? image

    Hi Chick, Every time I go near a TM nowadays, I seem to develop an injury shortly after....just coincidence? Not sure image

    Hi Barry, Good to see you coming back slowly....image


    Out Tuesday evening for an easy 5 miles, and out with the club Wednesday night. Legs aching a bit after getting back into the gym earlier this week.

    Cross country meeting this Sunday afternoon, weather looking not too bad.

  • Cross Country yesterday. No mud, sunny and warm day....something missing!

    Great day. Six miles, coming in on 38:56. The conditions were that good I ended up running in my racing flats image


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Nell-very nice cross country there...I'd be very happy to doing that time on a road. You may have something about TMs and injury- a GP friend told me that there is greater risk of repetitive injury with them as there's very little variation in the point of impact. I rested this weekendimage

    Didnt run this weekend but did some easy walking in the Northern Lakes.Glorious weather and scenery...can see why it inspired poets.

    17k last night 7.04mm av

  • 17k so shortly after a marathon is insane, 2old image

    I get blisters on treadmills I painfully found out... I think it's probably the constant incline in combination with sweating like a pig image

    Nell: that's a swift 6 miles image

    Started my advanced swim training yesterday. It's bloody hard. Drills, drills and more drills. And all of it over 50m ... the beginners' was held in a 25m pool image

    Spin class + short run today. Yoga tonight. Keeping myself from mischief image

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