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Run Walk in IM marathon
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I did the old run walk at the swashbuckler last year. I had great fun watching people come past me on the walk, only to overtake them in the next minute once I was running again.....
run/walk works well on halfs, if you are slow, or of you are quick as well......
If the run is over an hour then a run walk is a good way to go....
Oh, and halfs this year are great prep for a full IM next year
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Bobby is one of the finest coaches that I've had the pleasure of working with. If you get the chance to learn from him then take it!
I have been using this for all of my runs since getting back to balanced training. It is working very well for me.
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Determining where to start with the walk run method would depend on your current level & volume of run conditioning. I generally subscribe the following guidelines:
· If you run regularly (4+ X per week), then use for runs longer than 35 to 45:00
· For experienced runners I would suggest breaking up long runs & tempo runs (the latter defined as half marathon to marathon pace/effort – not off the bike, but flat pure runs)
· I would also highly recommend using the method in your longer bricks where you run more than 35 – 45:00 off the bike
· The basic model I use is 10:00 of running & 1:00 of walking, but I easily adapt this to suit the athlete’s capabilities.
The following ranges are what I recommend from easiest to most skilled:
1. Phase 1: Beginner: This assumes no running at all prior to this. 1:00 run, 1:00 walk, build rapidly (weekly) to 5:00 run, 1:00 walk.
2. Phase II: This assumes low running volume (fewer than 4 runs per week) & looking to build volume. Add 10 – 15% to all runs weekly, but break runs up into 6 to 10:00 sections, with a 1:00 walk. If using 10% increases, then move closer to 10:00 run, 1:00 walk, if increasing by 15%, then stay closer to 6:00 run, 1:00 walk
3. Phase III: This assumes advanced runner looking to increase both volume in long runs & speed in quality workouts. Have the basis be 10:00 run, 1:00 walk & build from there.
In the majority of athletes this is easily rectified by ensuring that the walk stride rate stays high (rather shorter steps & high cadence), that the walk is brisk with a purpose to covering ground, rather than thinking, “ah, rest”!
Also ensure that the arms are kept in running mode—allowing the arms to drop down, slows the stride rate, increases the stride length, which in turn leads to “switching off” & the lengthened levers put the pelvis & hamstrings under increased stress.
By following these guidelines the runner stays facilitated & easily restarts the next section with renewed vigor.
4. Threshold Workouts: I usually break these up into fixed times or distances any way. I design these around a total volume of 30 to 40:00. I find that longer walks here ensure a more rapid progression, i.e. velocity at the same heart rate increases fastest when longer rest periods are incorporated.
Sample workout would be 3X1.5 mile at LT (heart rate or pace, depending on the phase of training) with a 5:00 walk between each.
If the athlete does not have the speed, for example, to complete the quality sections in under 40:00, or is fast enough that the quality work is less than 30:00, then I would either break it up into time sections for the beginner, like 3X10:00, or lengthen the reps for the advanced, speedier runner, like 3X2.2 miles.
5. Tempo Workouts: Here the workout goal would be determined by considering specific event requirements. In the earlier part of this preparation phase I emphasize time sections at a specific heart rate, e.g. for half marathon run 4X15:00 at ½ marathon heart rate, with a 2:00 walk between each. Then in the latter part of the final preparation phase I’d have the same athlete run 3X5km at goal ½ marathon pace with a 2-3:00 walk break between each. I suggest a similar approach to marathon pace tempo runs & IM & ½ IM brick/combo runs. With the marathon I generally keep total volumes below & up to 15 miles (25km).
Gordo Note: 10:1 worked really well for me. I tried 11:15/0:45 and that really increased the demands of the session. For now, 35-40s seems to be "about right" for getting the reset that Bobby talks about.
7. Racing: For runners who run the marathon in slower than 2:30 (at least sub 3:00) & then, by virtue of IM world bests, all IM athletes, I strongly recommend racing the walk/run method during racing as well. Sub 2:30 marathons have been achieved by runners in this fashion. This implies that if you are going to race this way, train this way. However, for the runner who wishes to run considerably faster & is able to run sub 2:30, I would still use this approach on the majority of occasions, but there would have to be long runs & tempo runs that are continuous running.
ADVANTAGES OF THE METHOD:
1. Increased volume (per workout & per week/phase)
2. Reduced recovery time
3. Mentally easier to train & race
4. Faster in the majority of cases
5. Improved lipid metabolism
6. Increased functional leg strength
What’s not to like?
Gordo Note: I noted #1 to #4 very quickly in my own training. The hardest part is the humility required to walk!
Thanks so much for all this info - will print your posts OC, and check out Jeff Galloway on t'internet Meldy.
Certainly sounds worth considering, my longer runs are now at 60mins on the Fink program so might even give this a go tomorrow!
That is the plan OC... have my eye on Outlaw. Just need to convince the OHOC - nice post.
Used my walk/run strategy in a 10k today.
OK well it has a couple of steep hills on it and I had to walk some of them. Did pass a running DMVAC lady runner whilst walking fast uphill. Didn't know whether to say anything, apologise, mumble hello, or laugh in her face and say 'call that running'
Meface
Followed the advice of those more experienced than myself and ran between aid stations but ensured I got fluid by walking as soon as picked up fluid.
Worked fine for me and I really felt the benefit in the last hour - even though I was getting slower and slower.
Thanks Gladys for highlighting this thread for me.
Reading and learning.
Some of you saw my whinging on twitter about my longest run todate. 17 long/lonely/hard miles but I got it done. I am doing Outlaw but also Brighton Marathon in April......Brighton being my first ever marathon and entered before Outlaw so I am struggling with wanting to run it as best I can and get a good time or use it as a training run which is what everyone seems to be telling me. I really had intended to race it but after running Sunday and struggling, I am now thinking about withdrawing and concentrating on Outlaw.
I fully intend to run/walk Outlaw but my little brain is struggling with the concept of run/walking Brighton! One of the main reasons for my doubting this marathon running was that once I had stopped at 17 miles, I couldn't believe the intense waves of aching pain running through my legs.....not muscle pull but just aching. So bad that I couldn't walk and had to hang onto a post sobbing!!!!! Never had this before and eventually hobbled the short way home......threw myself through the door and lay on the lounge floor whimpering which turned to sobbing (I jest not) whilst the kids looked on. Through my whimpers I explained that Mum was just aching from running to which I got....."Can you go in another room cos we can't hear the TV." There's me thinking they may panic seeing me in such a state. The aching went within half an hour but I really didn't know what to do with myself. Legs were fine afterwards and today....just turbo'd so I know it wasn't injury but it freaked me out as I couldn't control the tears. Tears I don't do.....swearing is more my thing.
Anyway I ramble on...... I am still undecided as to whether I can change my mindset and use Brighton as a training run and not be disappointed with the time....or to withdraw. Maybe another long run and see how it goes.....not really looking forward to it though.
Thoughts would be muchly appreciated. Thanking you.
I did London marathon in training for Copenhagen last year and I firkin hated it. It threw all my other training out as I had to continue building the bike and have a 'mini peak' just before April in order to taper both run and cycling so that I was suitably rested for London. The mini peak/early spring build was too much for me and I got ill. After that, I had to take the cycling right down and just work on the run for London and I think it had a detrimental effect on the IM training over all.
I wouldn't ever do a spring marathon in training for an IM again, too much for me.
That's just me though, I know other people (Meldy, Holly (?), Cougie, Monique) who do it. I just can't get the balance right to focus on two big objectives and end up in a state.
I do like a good run walk at the end of an IM though.
ad infinitum
M..ouse, I feel I am heading towards a state at the minute.
Plumster....have I not told you to bugger off once this evening.
I am a bit grumpy. I did do a very hard bike and maybe that made it all seem that much worse and my training buddy has done his back in so I was on my own. Not something I tend to be much so that was another downside. I am convincing myself to to another long one without riding hard the day before and see how it goes. Plum you know me well, doubting Thomas I am.
hope that the next one feels better.
And Plum speaks well.
They won't hurt as much next time. Reading your posts, you are well on target for Outlaw, better than many of the rest of us.
Brighton will be fun.
I'm not helping am I?
Saffers, I am not a triathlete yet so my advice is probably to be taken with a pinch of salt. I have run a couple of marathons though and currently cover 30-35 mile a week on the back of long bikes, swimming and turbo.
I have bad runs, everyone does. I ran a very tough HM course yesterday, the day after my longest ever bike ride. Every step, every breath and every bead of sweat was worked for. I felt shit for the whole 13 miles and I can usually step out the door and run 13 miles without breaking sweat.
I also failed on two of my long runs in preparation for the Dublin Marathon last October. One of them was my last 20 miler where I blew up at 12 miles and walked/run home for a total of 16 miles. I was very worried, but was advised to forget it and move on, which I did, and I got round with a respectable time (in my book).
I'd love to do Belfast Marathon in the spring, but training for a long distance running event would take too much out of my preparations for Outlaw. Some can handle both and I might some day, but as a virgin long distance triathlete I can't afford to comprimise the specific, quality training required for my 'A' event.
My answer can just be ignored if it is shite.
Saff...to view this from a different angle, this is your first marathon and Ironman, they both mean a lot to you.
I think that everyone else that is giving advice on here had done one before the other so could focus on their "A" race and separate the urge to run both to the maximum effort. Your tackling both "firsts" inside three months.
If you treat Brighton as a very early long training run with a comfortable goal (maybe sub 5hrs) you will run, finish and enjoy it with a view to running a marathon again next year and running a good time.
If, as Mouse says you carry on training hard for Brighton, give the race everything on the day and get a great time you do run the risk of leaving yourself shot for the Outlaw.
I'm running Brighton but i'm RACING Outlaw...i know the difference, so if i miss or cut a long run short then i know it will not hurt my Outlaw target.
If you can't seperate the desire to race Brighton hard then defer it till next year, although i think running Brighton, finishing it in a good time will give you a massive mental boost when your suffereing in the heat on the side of the Trent with the rest of us in July.
Here ends the rambling of a mad man.
Hang on, you ran 17 miles not long after a long ride and your legs hurt? Well duh!!
It sounds like once you'd got over the initial pain, you actually recovered pretty well after the run.
If you're planning on completing Outlaw with a run-walk strategy straight out of T2, then TBH I don't think that running Brighton will affect your Outlaw much at all. That's assuming that you keep whatever long rides you have planned going up until (say) a couple of weeks before Brighton and don't do any silly month long taper. You can use the week after Brighton to re-focus on cycling, because you won't need to be running much that week! Just my opinion though.
Thanks all for your comments and advice. VT'd no answer is shite.....all there for me to read through and work out what is going to be best for me. Easier said than done though.
FF, you talk sense! Getting it into my head that it is a training run and going for a comfortable pace sounds doable. You get the "first" thing and yes two "firsts" is what is making me dither. Like you say though, having done the distance before the Outlaw will do my little brain the power of good.
Cheerful Dave, yes, once that pain had gone I was fine. Turbo and swim today....albeit a bit tired but yes, it was the initial "OUCHIE" that freaked me out.
and I know.....IT'S NOT A KNITTING CLUB.....if it were, I am sure I would find something to whinge about too.
Many thanks all. Feeling better and thinking my decision is made...ish.
Bit late to the conversation but essentially everyone has a point which proves a point in itself that everyone is individual and will suit different approaches
However, I do agree with Mr Foot and Cheerful Dave in that changing your goal and the way you look at Brighton it can have its place in the plan ... use it as a good training run, adjust your goal to a sub 5 and have a swim / bike week following to ensure recovery
Mousey is correct in as much as I have done marathons preceeding IM and I think London was the closest one I have done .... I didnt race it (arguably never have!!) and so I recovered well, BUT it wasnt my first marathon and I had nothing to prove either to myself or anyone else at that stage
In IM however the marathon becomes pivotal to the end goal if you have a time to aim for.
If you can run Brighton as your first marathon and be happy with an adjusted goal and can take it steady then do it but as Dave (I think) says if you cant seperate a hard race from a training run then its not the race for you.
If you are worried that you need to do a marathon distance before Outlaw then I am here to tell you that you have absolutely nothing to worry about, you will be fine, you have no need to have conquered the distance before hand, I have seen you swim/bike/run and you will have a superb race
/the ramblings of a woman on night shift
it's about making the goals realistic to your ambitions and abilities
having 2 A races not very far apart and requiring different training approaches is never easy so use Brighton as a long training run to gauge where you are and then recover and crack on with Outlaw training. if you want to run a faster marathon in the future perhaps ditch the IM distance tri to focus on that. but you find as time goes by your body becomes accustomed to the big training loads and you can start to realistically target 2 A races and do well at both.
I did Brighton and London a week apart before Outlaw in 2010 but to be fair, Outlaw as much later than this year so I had more recovery time. I raced Brighton, and bimbled London and recovered well from both but then I do have a good few years of training and racing under my (ample) belt
Thanks for the advice.
I am changing the way I am thinking and intend using Brighton as a training run and do not intend to race it. I shall be looking at how my week after should be as I don't want to be a cripple and unable to train for Outlaw or I shall be whinging on twitter again.
I don't feel I "need" to do a marathon before Outlaw but I am sure that going the distance will keep my little head in the place it needs to be in for me to keep feeling confident.
As Meldy has said on more than one occasion, I will be fine.
Thanking you all.
* but I know shite ...
She's got a point though.....