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Run Walk in IM marathon
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Meface I think you could safely do 4/1 or 4/2 ..
R/W tried and tested on many an IM and it def works
Your challenge, your terms, your rules.
But I agree with the above photo (retweeted by Jodie Swallow).
Walking is not rising to the challenge.
2004 - Ran about 15 miles then ran/walked (4:25.02 / 12:38:08) = FAIL!
2012 - Ran 26.2 miles (3:29:19 / 10:36:59) = Success!
ditto meface....
in IM Lanza I walked 100m, ran 400m, repeat, for a 4:37 or something (the joys of knee arthritis mean I can't do heavy training millage any more so I save myself for race day
)
A personal worse by about an hour, but I was massively happy as my longest run was 5k.
I found I was fine for the first 2 laps, (20 k)
then lap 3 was bad - could still run but it hurt
Lap 4 was very hard. still 'running' but the missus could walk faster if she put her mind to it
however without conserving myself I would have gone south much earlier.
unless you know you can run well the whole way, the run walk makes massive sense. Plan to run between the aid stations, then walk a minute through it eating and drinking.
Most (80%??) will end up walking so plan for it, start your plan (what ever works for you) straight away and just keep plugging away. You will grind to a halt a lot later / will feel fresher than thos running the whole way... when they walk they really struggle to run again.
rant over
oh and marshallini - with a 3:30 you are in the top 10% of an IM marathon race times.
I ran / walked for a 3:42 and was similarly aiming for a run/walk 3:30 till I broke... Its all about overall speed
walking the whole way..... well you may have a little point, but it depends on you / your fitness history / personal challenges......
At the end of the day it's all about getting to the finish as quickly as possible, and if that means a run-walk strategy, or walking the aid stations, then so be it. Personally I wouldn't start training for an IM with a run-walk as a plan, but I can understand why others do.
I wouldn't regard walking parts of the run as failure either, any more than I would think that freewheeling down a hill on the bike leg was 'failure'. It's about efficiency over the whole course. I've walked aid stations on every IM I've done, and I can pretty much guarantee that it's been quicker than if I'd tried to keep running through.
You also seem to make up an hour on the swim/bike. So it looks like you were in very good shape for 2012.
However when I set the training plan out I certainly didn't plan to walk half of it. But neither did I plan a chest infection and ear infection that basically wiped out about 7-weeks of training. I really wasn't very well - the doctor even said so.
As CD has said it is about the clock and using the reources you have to get to the end as quickly as possible. For me this year with so little run training it is going to mean a lot of walking. Planning this in early to maximise the amount of running I will do is good course management. Running 6 miles and walking 20 is not.
What I was surprised about was the overall pace I acheived with a 4/4 strategy. If I kept that up it would have been as quick as my time at IM Regensburg when I did a 9/1 and was in good shape (for me).
Given I have overtaken Raelert on the run before I can go a bit quicker.
I have also walked past quite a few runners in IMs, which is surely just embarrassing for them. OK they are running in style but if walking is quicker what is the point.
I am big boy and pay for it on the run. My fastest mara is 3:57 (Brighton 2012) so I suspect a 3:30 is beyond my running capabilities in an IM.
Fastest is 12:22 and would love to have been looking at sub-12 but the lack of training due to illness means this year is about course management and getting to the end.
M..eface
I find 8:2 works for me.
Thinking about the dialogue you are having about the amount of walking that goes on blah blah blah, ultimately, if you can make it round in 17 hours (for a standard cut off, other cut off times apply) then you ARE an ironman, regardless of what you, Jodie Swallow, Tom, Dick or Harriet say. Does that mean that you think the cut offs are too generous? In as much as people are making it off the bike within the time limit and then, basically, not 'trying' on the run, they're just noodling around?
Ultimately to said third party athlete, what you think doesn't make the blindest bit of difference but that's sort of how I'm reading it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTn1v5TGK_w
WTC rules explicitly state that you can run, walk or crawl. (BTF/ITU prohibits crawling)
I wish you'd quoted it, I love the word 'locomotion' and I end up singing for ages afterwards.
All the best people got 3:57 at Brighton Marathon 2012. I should've just stayed with you from the beginning!
Is that helpful to the overall thread conversation?
I love the idea of getting the train somewhere and running home. It is always far easier to run having a purpose.
My 'C' goal in a stand alone marathon ('A' being a specific time and 'B' being a PB) is always not to walk but in Outlaw I walked all the aid stations (30-60 seconds a time) after 10 miles and felt far better for it. I was starving by then and sick of gels so it meant I ate properly too.
I think I'll try not to walk again at Challenge Henley but if it comes to it I know it's not the end of the world this time.
I am starting to feel jealous of everyone doing Outlaw...I'll sit down until it passes!
after doing my first 100+ ride on the bike yesterday i am amazed anyone can run anywhere let alone a full marathon.
when the time comes to it i think i will start off running slowly and hope to keep the same pace, apart from at ffeed stations. my fear is once i start to walk i wont be able to start running again
Budjude
I think that is why many practise the walk/run strategy in training to get used to the stop/start.
I have done quite a few ultras and certainly can't run all of a 50 miler, probably shouldn't be allowed to enter but who cares. After many hours of walking a run becomes a break. So I am quite used to the stop/start as have done downhills as runs or downhills/flats as runs depedning on the course and my fitness.
Towards the end of yesterday, walking lowered the heart rate but it seemed each transition required some application of mental strength. Forcing the first few steps of the walk was harder than running. I was almost glad when the run section came again. Walking at that pace is hard but overall I think it resulted in a much quicker overall time than trying to run and slowing to some pathetic hobble.
M..eface
i usually end up walking on my normal running routes due to cattle grids and styles / gates etc. but always find it hard to get back into the stride of running. something i will have to build the training next year.
I need to work on the mental side of things - i was abusing cows yesterday on the etape ride - and i think this routine will help. when i do the HIM this year i plan to just focus on the loop i am on - forgetting just how far i have left. in theory it seems easy, i know in practice it wont be.
99 bottles of beer on the wall can pass some time. As can counting.
I've been doing a few of my longer (1:30+) runs as 1:10 walk:runs on the basis that I'm planning to walk the feed stations at Henley which are between 0.75 and 1.25 miles apart. It certainly feels easier getting back into the running now I've practised a few times. There seems to be a distinction being drawn between a walk run strategy and walking the aid stations are they really different?
id miss the cut off if i stopped to drink that much beer
Yes/No - At 9:1 (don't do 10:1 as the maths is too hard) then walking the aid stations probably is about the same. But at 4:1 you would be walking aid stations + another walk break between them.
At 4:4 I'll be walking half way to the next aid station!
Hal Higdon has some stuff about paces and walk/run splits for different paced runners/goals.
As you came flying past me last year on one of your walk sections meface I wouldn't be overly concerned about it impacting your time, much better to plan it from the start and get to the stage where you have something in your legs / body to run the last 30 mins.
I'm not that worried about finishing. I'm not that worried about Marshallini being quicker than me either.
What did surprise me was how fast it actually was over that distance with a 4:4 strategy. And how easy (relatively) it was given the complete absence of training.
I'll be done around the 13-hour mark give or take assuming bike leg goes as planned.
Just though it might be useful for some of the newer folk to have a read through and find out how the PRo's doit (run all of it) and how the rest of us get through it (walking)
M..eface