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Crashed and burned again - why did it all go wrong again?
Last year my excuse was a bad cold (in my defence it really was a bad cold!) this year it was the weather.
Sadly though I don't think this is the reason that my london marathon effectively ended mile 13.
Both last year and this year I ran a good hilly 20 mile race 5 weeks before, this year was 9 minutes faster than the last at 3:46 and I was really hoping for a sub 5hrs London.
So how come I had jelly legs at mile 10 and had to (fast) walk run the second 13? My prep was I thought text book.
I'm now thinking of blaming my 5:23 on coping with the "occassion" of it all.
I did the first half of VLM in 2:23 so on for the sub 5 but the second half in 3 hours, so frustrating. Please someone help me!!!
Sadly though I don't think this is the reason that my london marathon effectively ended mile 13.
Both last year and this year I ran a good hilly 20 mile race 5 weeks before, this year was 9 minutes faster than the last at 3:46 and I was really hoping for a sub 5hrs London.
So how come I had jelly legs at mile 10 and had to (fast) walk run the second 13? My prep was I thought text book.
I'm now thinking of blaming my 5:23 on coping with the "occassion" of it all.
I did the first half of VLM in 2:23 so on for the sub 5 but the second half in 3 hours, so frustrating. Please someone help me!!!
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Troublesome knees,
I feel your pain (well half of it) as I have had similar experiences doing HM's where I crashed at 11 miles for no apparent reason. Training went well, and I had done the full distance comfortably a few times. I am now training for the Edinburgh Marathon and hope the same doesn't happen.
Obviously hydration and fuelling play a key part in a race - presume you took enough water on board? The other thing is how you feel on the day.......we all have good and bad training runs where sometimes you feel great, and other days you find it much harder. The other thing would be pace - did you stick to a set pace or did you go out too fast?
Mannfred
I may have done the first 4 miles a little quicker than intended but only by about 30-45 seconds a mile.
I didn't throw away any of the bottles - I kept everyone until the next water stop and kept sipping all the way round. I did feel slightly wobbly/ disorientated around mile 9 but had a gel and felt better. I knew I needed to take on salt and stopped at St Johns and they gave me a few crisps.
Think it maybe a mental thing - rather than thinking that's 2 miles done, I was constantly thinking that's 24 left!
I don't cope well in heat and can only put some of the blame on that. Doing all training in sub 10 degree temps only for race day to be around 20 degrees both times. Both times I've wanted sub 5 hours.
Don't be to hard on yourself as there were some poor souls who were in a right state and I'm thankful I finished in one piece.
When you say you did your first 4 miles in 'only 30-45 seconds a mile faster than intended', this would be quite a significant stress on your body which is already full of adrenaline and nerves presumably? I wonder if this fast start took it out of you, resulting in feeling weak at 9 miles? Certainly that faster pace would normally be associated with speedwork or tempo runs where you are trying to attune your body to feel more comfortable with a faster pace.
I'm certainly no expert, but wondering if the faster start took it out of you?
thanks for your comments though it's nice to know I'm not alone.
I have also lost the ability to walk today, this morning I was aching badly and had to crawl down the stairs now I don't seem to be able to walk at all, lol.
Sadly I'm back to work tomorrow - really hoping all this tonic water is going to help soon!!
The heat will make a big, big difference.
I was expecting about 5.20 in 2007 but dragged myself over the line in 6.02. The bottom line was that I got blisters at half way (first and only time) then from about mile 15 water was scarce, at one point I passed 2 consecutive stations where they had run out.
From then it was all about getting to The Mall in one piece, I probably walked more than I ran during the last 6 miles.
I spent about a week being really disappointed but the memory I have now was that I had a really, really great day and I also came to realise I couldn't have done any better under the circumstances - hopefully that will happen to you too TK.
BTW I think they said it was 20C on Sunday - cooler than 2007 but more humid.
Hi All
I wonder if anyone has noticed the effect the merging of the Red & Blue starts has?
I was running with another forumite, and we noticed that when the two sets of runners merged, we tended to speed up. We started in Blue pen 9, but as the Red start takes longer to cross the line, we were merging with runners from Red pens 5 and 6, who were going faster than us. Problem was, we started to get dragged aling without realising it for a couple of miles...
I'm not one for being over-analytical, but we noticed a difference.
AndyP - I commented on this to my other half, it did throw me for a while although I did try and keep it in check by checking the garmin.
Last year I was in the red pen and it took over 30 mins to get across the line line, this time in blue and only took 18mins so definitely running with faster people at the 3 mile point.
I think it's time for a different marathon - as magical as london is I think I just find it too intimidating!!
TK - I'm feeling your pain a bit as I was targeting 3:10 and ended up alowing at 4 miles and walkjogging from 16 to finish in 3:50.
You mention that you ran a hilly 20 mile race at about marathon pace 5 weeks before. I suspect that you left your race out on that 20 miler. That's a pretty tough run to do - I wouldn't attempt it - especially if you're not doing relatively high mileage. The fast start won't have helped either and probably contributed to the second half fade.
Good luck with whatever one you choose to do next. I'll give London another go. I think I owe it one now.
I think all of the above make fair points.
But one thing that catches my eyes is that you wrote about a 20 mile hilly race 5 weeks before the marathon and that you did the same the year before. I don't know much about your running but aiming for a sub 5 hours and doing 3.46 in a 20 mile race, does not put you in the elite bracket right? Maybe not even in the regular competer bracket?
If you are not in any of those 2 categories doing a hilly 20 mile race 5 weeks before might not give you enough time to recover properly.
A race after all is not exactly the same as a long run as you normally give your all in a race.
How wonderful to know that I'm not alone Troublesome Knees!
I'd set myself a pretty conservative target time of 4 hours 20 minutes and was running comfortably at 9 minutes 45 seconds or thereabouts for the first 10 miles (about 45 seconds slower than my half marathon pace) and then I crashed and ended up walking and jogging to a rather disappointing 5 hours 13 minutes - not far off 1 hour short of my target. The problem was pain in my knees - if I'd got 2/3 miles to go I'd have pushed through it but with 15 miles to go it was just too much.
My training had gone well although I do wonder if the 20 and 22 mile runs 4/5 weeks before VLM were a good idea.
I have resolved that the solutions to achieving my target time are as follows:
1. strengthen my legs and particularly knees - body balance and yoga classes at the gym beckon
2. lose another stone (16 stones is a lot to carry around 26 miles)
3. do more hill work to assist in achieving 1 above
4. don't change diet too much before the race - I think I overdid the carb loading and felt very uncomfortable on Saturday night
5. find an alternative to the Lucoazde gels - they'd worked fine in training but not even 4 imodium tablets could prevent a dash to the toilets after I'd taken on gels at mile 14 (that cost me a rather unpleasant 10 minutes.)
I don't know if any of these apply to you Troublesome Knees but I do know that I've got to run it again!
So, you ran a hilly 20 miler in preparation for a flat 26.2.
Why?
I live in hills so have no choice but to train in them but find that when I do flat races (and London is about as flat as they come) I struggle dreadfully. If you prep for a specific type of race then you're inevitably going to struggle with the different terrain. Yes, running hills makes you stronger but so does intervals, pyramids, strides and general slogging on the terrain that you expect to marathon on - they're all very different in very different ways. Any alternative terrain/gradient (in my limited experience) only screws with your legs & head - especially if you're only targetting one specific event this year.
Then there's: psychology head f*ck, hydration, pace (my bet is you went off too fast and cocky because of your 'hilly 20 miler') and nutrition/maintenence.
You probably already know where you went wrong, you just need to have a proper reasoned think about it after the cold hard light of the finish line. And consider other marathons. Just because they're there.
Gatton - agree about the time on your feet. I sat on a bin-liner for most of the time I wasin the start area for just that reason.
TK - agree about a different marathon idea. I've entered Brighton 2012 already and will aim for one in the autumn too.
Agree with Clearly
TK - Is the hilly 20 mile run you're talking about The Grizzly?
The 2 things that caught my eye were firstly the fact that you ran the first few miles "only" 30-45 seconds p/m quicker than intended. That really would have taken a bit out of your legs - For me that would have put me on HM pace. I know you hear it all the time and it's easier said than done but the advice that you should take it easy for the first couple of miles, then get into your pace is good advice. If you feel good at 13 then keep your pace going, if you still feel good at 18 then keep going. Only at mile 20 should you consider quickening not the first 4 miles.
The other is if you actually raced the hilly 20 miler. I did the Grizzly which was 5 weeks from the Marathon but treated it as another long slow training run and finished it almost 15 minutes slower than my time at London. If you treated it as a race and pushed yourself up the hills/beaches/bogs then that would have taken your race out of your legs. It certainly made me ache for a few days and like I said, I took it easy.
With regards to the heat - It seems to be a contentious issue at the moment. I'm on the side of the fence that it didn't play a massive part. Those that ran well wouldn't have noticed it, those that struggled early on (due to whatever reason) probably did notice it.
Apologies if this post comes across as a bit negative/nag and I'm sorry things didn't go to plan but hopefully you can take something awaay from this and nail it next year.
The 20 mile race was Rhayader round the lakes, because of where I live most long routes will involve a hill (in fact if I run from home it's impossible to do a flat run) I tend to drive to a local town and run along a river route for a flat one. I live near the welsh border to give you an idea of the terrain.
I can confirm that I did try hard in the 20 miler as I wanted a confidence booster and getting the pb certainly did that but I can assure you I didn't feel cocky however the first 5 miles may have been a tad to quick for me if I'm being honest. However reading through training info I thought 5 weeks before would be plenty of time for recovery.
Clearly I'm not an elite - I started running 2 1/2 years ago but run 3 times a week with a club and in the past year have done 4 half's, 2 10milers and the 20miler (and of course the 2 marathons). I actually felt really good after the 20 mile race with no aches the next day.
My fastest half is 2:10 (flat).
Gilly - I'm not offended, I knew I would get a straight answer from the forum!
AndyP - I also sat on a bin liner at the start as the coach dropped us off so early, I brought my ipod along purely for the wait at the start as don't like running races with it.
Simon - Thank you, and your not alone in needing to lose a little weight, was hoping to lose half a stone before race day but it didn't quite happen!
I didn't use the lucozade gels as stuck with the gels I'd trained with and had 3 on the run and sports beans.
I had to eat breakfast at the hotel at 5 which is of course over 4 hours til the start but I did have a couple of bananas whilst waiting.
I'm thinking Loch Ness for my next marathon attempt and then maybe go back to London in a few years.
I guess I needed a little perspective - I did after all do a pb by 9 minutes. And yet we always want more!
I have only ever done a HM and can only dream of achieving what you guys have done- so top beating yourselves up over it (easier said than done I know).
Hi
Reading all the low points ( post-marathon blues?) Have to share mine.
Nearly missed the start due to long wait for train at Lewisham to Blackheath. Had 2 minutes to spare to walking to start line so no mental prep, shoes were not tied up how I like them, felt drained at the start stressing about getting to start on time ... flipping disaster.
Aimed to do half marathon as I usually do but at 8 miles my tendonitis decided to say hello, probably due to trainer not tied properly.
So got round on a wing and a prayer. 5.20.19. Cried like a baby over the finishing line and vowed NEVER NEVER NEVERNEVER to do another one....that lasted a day and I now I want to do the New York Marathon next year to put right what went wrong. Can you understand that fellow runners? Because my non-running family and friends can't.
It was the most surreal experience; amazing and awful at the same time.
It was great to 'bump' into andyp and mattysmum....what were the chances of that?
The crowd was amazing, totally amazing. Thank you to those who could see my pain at times and called out with encouraging words.
Can't believe it's all over.......................
On the day I was good through the half turning in 2:05. But from about 15 on I suffered and from about 18 got cramp in my left ham so had to run/walk 8 miles! I crossed the line in 4:50 and was disappointed. But here's the thing:
I have chatted with so many people since the day and told them I ran the marathon. To the average person the effort is running 26.2 miles. It is we runners who put the boundaries of time on ourselves. I have learned that it was tough ( I made it, hundreds didn't), it was hot, it was brutal, it was humid, it was the single hardest physical challenge I have done, but I did it. WE did it. Take the experience as feedback and next time try something a little different, but hold your head up and be proud of your achievement!
I've read that they reckon that it takes at least 5 or 6 marathons to get a feel for how to run one, pace yourself, get prepared properly etc etc.
I ran FLM in 2007 and the heat killed me, but also the travelling down, collecting number, trekking across London, catching trains, little sleep the night before .... so stressful and so tiring (before even running the race!). Since then, I've pb'd at Windermere and beaten my London time at Snowdonia on two occasions!
So, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, put this one down to experience, definitely consider running a smaller marathon with fewer logistical problems (I've heard the Wales Marathon is brill!) and have another go!
Remember, it's not just the London marathon that's 26.2 miles
PS Can definitely recommend Snowdonia - little chance of overheating there!!
I'm going to crack it one day!
Phatboyrunning - Yes we did indeed do it
Resolution for next time - stop fretting so much about the time!
You are all absolutely right! My family, friends, patients, neighbours etc are in awe of me- a marathon is a days entertainment on the telly, watching completely mad people running a completely mad distance!
We have done it, another thing to tick off the list.
I've entered Brighton 2012 this evening, New York is for holidays.....well..you never know.
Onwards and upwards.
xxx
It was 24 degrees in the shade according to my hubby who was parked near Regents Park, which means it was considerably hotter in the full glare of the sun.
A lot of people struggled in the heat, which is why so many were collapsing by the side of the road during the race.
Sorry I know Marathon's over now but did anyone else have problems with the trains getting to their starting venue. There was an article in my local paper about that and I thought I and the 'Super Mario 'plus 2 others were the only ones?