Comrades 2012

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Comments

  • Carmen23Carmen23 ✭✭✭
    ok - i'm now considering Miami marathon in Jan, following by a cheeky week in Pto Rico or somewhere image
    Anyone done Miami?? i basically need some sun at some point over winter!
  • SuperCazSuperCaz ✭✭✭

    I really want to do Comrades in 2012, but I'm slow and not sure whether I will get in under the cut off.  I have done two sub 5 hour marathons so I know that I can do the qualifier, but I'm unsure whether I can keep the pace up over the full distance.

    Is there anyone else on here that started from a similar background and can advise me on whether I am being realistic and what I need to do in training to ensure that I ahve the best chance of finishing before the cut off?

  • Carmen23Carmen23 ✭✭✭
    supercaz - welcome!!

    I'm slow too and i managed it this year - ok it was 2km shorter than it will ne bext year, but i was really really worried i wouldn't make it as well. my best marathon time is 4;15 on a v flat course - my worst is 4:50 so you can see i am not fast!!

    bruce fordyce thinks the qualifying time should be increased to 5h 30 so that should give you an idea that it is possible for us slow people!

    training wise - i did the bare minimum - didnt get anywhere near the 1000km recommended -- though i am hoping to do it properly next year and actually do some training - but life gets in the way! i say go for it, it was an amazing experience -- obviously if i hadnt made it i would be devastated - but you can always come back and try again - the experience was fantastic and the people are out of this world!
  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    Slot lucky you on the swimming front. I have dabbled with triathlon but my body has had too many injuries to cope with swimming training.

    Can do a 25 mile TT on the bike in 57 mins. Run a 73 minute half marathon but swimming 800 metres takes me 20 minutes. Welcome to nearly last out of the water in every race.

    In 3 weeks I am doing the Alpe D'Huez triathlon and then I am sticking to cycling and running. 2012 will be my last serious Comrades.
  • SuperCazSuperCaz ✭✭✭

    Hi Carmen, well my marathon time is closer to 5 hours than 4:30.  A friend who does marathons in about 3 hours said that it took him 8 hours - so double the distance in double the time plus 2 hours.  That is why I am concerned.  For me that would be very very close to the cut off.

    I'm thinking that I would be comfortable if I could do a marathon in close to 4:30, then I would have a bit of slack if things started going wrong.

    My other problem is that I am also training for some long distance swimming events, so trying to fit in both types of training could be difficult.

  • SuperCaz, welcome! many of us were 'back of packers' in the 2011 Comrades, and we all made it. If you want a heart warming story to encourage you read Clive's post on page (err, dunno, maybe) 112? on the 2011 forum (since he hasn't appeared here for a whiley). To save you hunting - in 2008 when he last did it, his PB was 4.50, he was injured til 5 weeks before the run so had absolutely no decent training, but he made it. So, I'd only repeat what Carmen says, go for it, it is incredible! Aim to get your marathon PB down as that will give you some float, but tbh, it is endurance you need and over the course of preparing for Comrades you will develop that.

    Gobi: 800 mins in 20 mins is OK and I bet you make it up over the bike/run, so! Bonne Chance in Alpe D'Huez!

    SSD: manic wave back image.

    Catch you all again once back from Ruski. ooo, BtW: I tried a wee run today. Leg I THINK is OK, I'll wait til tomorrow to see. Toodlepip.

  • Hi all,

    Supercaz...do it. I started exactly the same....2 marathons, 4 years apart, 4.40 and 4.29 (my qualifier in Oct 2010)...not much running between Oct and Dec (tendonitis) and then did reasonable amount of running between Jan and May (nothing more than marathon though and only a couple of those) but majority on a treadmill too. So I'm sure you'll be able to do it. Best event I've ever done...awesome.

    Not sure about increasing the qualifying time...might give people a false sense of security?

    Gobi - you can't be good at everything but even if last out the water sounds like you can make some time up on the rest so shouldn't rule out tri. Good luck with Alpe D'Huez.

    SloTwin - you want to do next year, you know deep down you do....and definitely try triathlon...if you can swim (often the most difficult bit for people coming from running background), you can ride a bike and we know you can run, it's something new to add to your achievements and with 2 low impact disciplines usually results in less chance of injury....having said that compared to just running, it can be a faff having to cart around all the gear to races etc.

    Still not even back running - tried just another short, slow, treadmill run on Fri before a class and by the end of the day my ankle was giving out. Continuing on the cross trainer....ho hum.

    Hope all had nice weekends.
  • Fido2DogsFido2Dogs ✭✭✭
    SN - hope that ankle of yours starts behaving soon
    Gobi - tapering now? Best of luck.

    SuperCaz - The relationship between marathon time and Comrades time is not all that tight (just ask SlowDuck!) so just because your marathons are not that fast it is not NECESSARILY true that you're borderline for getting a Comrades finish. For an 11:59 finish the average speed a runner needs to keep up is 12:45 minute miling.

    What this means in practical terms (fishing out my trusty spreadsheet) if someone can run at 11 minute miles for a total of 30 miles during Comrades, power walk the rest at a scratch over 4 mph, and not spend more than 4 minutes in the bog or otherwise stopped, they can just beat the 12 hour cutoff (assuming they cross the line in 6 mins or less).

    The best way of finding out is to have a go at a few ultras or superhilly marathons - Carmen may not have done a lot of miles in training but what we all noticed was when she did the Sussex marathon (hilly) and the Compton 40 (also hilly) she just chewed those hills up and spat them out again - she is clearly made for these sorts of things! Perhaps you are the same but you don't know until you try.

    (I thought I'd be good at ultras but sure found out different this year! Have got a few things to learn before next June...)
  • Slow DuckSlow Duck ✭✭✭
    SuperCaz- welcome!

    I agree with Carmen, Slotwin, Sam and Fido that if you're sub-5, you should be ok for the 12 hour cut-off. If you get your marathon down to 4:30 you should be aiming for a sub-11 bronze finish. (after all when the cut-off was 11 hours, the qualifying used to be 4:30).

    Having spent the month of June doing very little, I'm planning to start training again tomorrow. Not looking forward to the first couple of weeks - lots of excess weight to get rid of and fitness to regain... image
  • Sam, as a tri girlie, got any to suggest to me as a starter for ten. You know, a really great one with lots of hype image.  Not keen on the sprints, too slow for that, and definitely not in ironman territory, so olympic or half. Completley understand re: ankle. I was a bit too enthusiastic yesterday so am back to no running. You've got time though!

    Yeah, deep down I DO want to do it, but as my body is now pointing out, my biomechanics (cos that is what is was) are not set-up for the repetitiveness of it, and then there is the not small or insignificant issue of obtaining the family's buy-in.............and all that training (on the flat AGAIN for me). Uughhh, have you all already forgotten how many pages we spent on that this year??!!

  • Keith LKeith L ✭✭✭

    Supercaz

    As you may know Comrades seeds people in 20 minute batches based on marathon times.

    The slowest batch is 4:40 to 5 h marathon time and of these (of those who managed to get to start) roughly 53% of people finished. But of the group in the next batch up (4:20-4:40) 79% of people finished in time.

    Take out from that is that finishing with your marathon times is possible and over 1/2 of people manage it. But if you can add a bit of speed to get below 4:40 consistently then you have a better statistical chance.

    Its a great race and well worth doing.

    Keith

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    Slot/Sam - I like competing so am retiring as I cannot do enough training in the water without breaking my body. I have been last out the water in more than one tri and it is safe to say I don't finish last but I also don't get the right buzz.

    800 metres in 20 mins means that a half Ironman swim takes an hour on a good day Giving people I race against a 30 min head start. It is not fun a race being over before it starts.

    After this I will be sticking to running and cycling :¬)
  • Fido2DogsFido2Dogs ✭✭✭
    I would add a note of caution though to what Keith said - a lot of people do their Comrades qualifier untapered, in the middle of training, and on hilly South African courses, so their qualifying times are a bit slower than they could manage if they did proper marathon training with speedwork, tapered, and then ran (say) Amsterdam for a qualifier!

    But of course there is no need for speed, you just need to be able to keep going! Walk up the hills, jog down them, try to jog on what few flats there are, manage what you eat and drink so you don't get sick, don't fall over, don't stop, that's it.

    Slotwin - speaking of marathons,reason I like Eindhoven so much is that
    a) it's VERY VERY flat (ISTR you have to go under a railway line @ one point and over a motorway @ another but apart from that...)
    b) you can have your own sport drinks (with gel attached with a rubber band if you like) put out at the drinks tables every 5k and, **and**, they have "spotters" up ahead so that when you get to each table someone has ferreted out your bottle and **hands it to you**, you don't have to slow down even
    c) No crowding, no potholes, few bends, you can run at your own pace all the way with your eyes shut
    d) Pace groups every 15 minutes
    e) A marathon relay going on at the same time (d&e mean you've always got someone to chase who's going at a desirable pace)
    f) music all the way around (literally, as the Dutch death metal shack fades out the brass band doing Beatles covers fades in) and (closed roads) they seem OK if people want to use iPods, so if music helps you've got it
    g) they print your name on your number and there are few enough runners that the supporters will often read this and cheer you on by name
    h) lively but not oppressive support, particularly in the town centre where they'll all have been out drinking since the race started, so you can imagine what it's like when you come through at half way and again at the finish.... (!)
    i) 10am start so no early rising and plenty of time for "the system" to clear hem hem
    j) cheap, well timed flights to & from Stansted so you could do it in a weekend with no time off if I wanted (usually take Fri pm off & fly out that evening though), plus 6 euro bus from airport
    k) hotels close to start point with many cheap, clean, cafes & takeaways selling good plain identifiable image food
    l) fairly reliable weather (Edinburgh I'm looking at you!)
    m) doesn't clash with Abingdon so I can marshall
    n) they sell last year's tech t-shirts at the expo for 5 euro apiece
    o) interesting modern architecture and a little bit of history/museums if you get bored but not enough to distract you
    p) friendly runners
    I mean what's not to like? Ideal for going for that D seeding !
  • Keith LKeith L ✭✭✭

    Fido

    Agree entirely that you can read too much into the stats - but it is undeniable that as you go down the seedings more and more people fail to finish (although bizzarely doesnt hold true for pen A - as I guess they step off and fight another day). So there is a link between your marathon time and your likely Comrades finish - not exact or linear but it is there.

    Not being awkward but doesnt the point your raise (untapered, hilly courses) mean that if you do your marathon on a fast flat course with a taper you need it to be considerably faster than 5 hours to beat the stats?

    DNFs by starting Pen

    A  9%
    B  4%
    C  3.5%
    D  6.2%
    E  Green Number
    F   11%
    G   21%
    H   46%

    Vast majority of people who qualify sometime in the previous 12 months with a sub 4:40 Marathon finish (4 in 5) just over half who qualify with a 4:40+ do so.

    The Comrades stats arent broken down more but I wouldnt be surprised if say people witha 4:50 + qualifying time DNF more than thos ein same pen but with a sub 4:50.

    So if you are close to 5 hours as a marathon PB you can finish just need to tailor your training and I guess ahve a bit of luck on the day.

    K

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    Keith - I think it is safe to say a number of people in the "A" pen take very big risks in search of glory.

    Comrades Qualifiers

    Always find it interesting that people use tapered marathons but then if you have the chance to do it then it makes sense, up until now I was always training for something else. I'm running Snowdon and will be doing a full 2 week taper for it, it is my qualifier because unless I have a real disaster I probably won't run another marathon before Comrades(beyond pace maker duty). I have never run a fully tapered marathon and my qualifiers for Comrades in the past have just been whichever race of any distance got me into the highest pen. When I analysed my potential performance I worked that out against how I performed in 35/40 mile races.(run untapered of course)


    Of course if your training for Comrades is going well the chances are you will run a training marathon faster than you qualifier on the way anyway.
  • Fido2DogsFido2Dogs ✭✭✭
    Keith said if you do your marathon on a fast flat course with a taper you need it to be considerably faster than 5 hours to beat the stats?
    Indeed. I suspect a good number of those SA runners with 4:30 qualifiers might be low 4:0x or sub-4 candidates in optimal conditions.

    But what we're all trying to say is this.

    What can happen at Comrades is that you run at your natural ultra pace and then stuff goes wrong - you fall over or your old war wound starts giving you super mega grief or you get sick or the runs. If this happens to two people then the one who was further ahead when it all went pearshaped might be able to walk to the end but the other might miss the cutoff. So when things go wrong the slower runner has a smaller time cushion and so is more likely to DNF.

    But consider a 3rd person, not a fast runner but otherwise healthy and good at stepping round potholes - if *they* have a good day they overtake both of the others!

    As Keith said - a bit of luck image
  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    Ok I didn't DNF but I was that injured runner.

    2005 - 3.07 marathon PB and a 10.52 getting injured inside 30kms. I was actually inspired to carry on by a South African (Pro 12 hour man) who offered to come back out and walk to the end with me as I limped along. I actually beat him as I was fitter but very humbling indeed.

    The fact is I made half way in 4.30 so as Fido said had so long to make the finish I could actually walk. Never ran a step until HillCrest and at this point reaslised my knee could take up hill running. Given it was a down you can imagine what my day felt like.
  • Interesting debate re qualifying times. My personal experience is in line with what someone said already. My qualifier was done at Abingdon in October on the flattest course I have ever seen (not been to Berlin) with a good taper. I ran a fairly hilly marathon in February at the end of a 120km training week (with 2 marathons on the 2 previous Sundays) and bettered my PB by 5 mins. If your Comrades training is going in the right direction you should be able to run pretty close to what you ran in say October when you run an untapered marathon a few months into some solid training. Good marathon times do not however translate into good Comrades times if you have a bad day, as I can sadly attest to.

    The fact that Comrades was a disaster has not been all bad. I have still been able to run in June and although life has been quite hectic with moving countries again and changing jobs, I have still managed to keep up some level of fitness. I had an awful (but still fun) run at the Wimbledon Park run on Saturday. First time I have done of them, it is quite good fun. Was on course for a second place finish but really struggled in the last km so had to settle for 3rd. I have lost a bit of speed but nothing that a few good weeks of training won't cure.

    My target marathon for the second half of the year is Leicester in October. Has anyone done it before? 

  • SuperCazSuperCaz ✭✭✭

    I've been doing a few off road marathons this year, to try and build up my endurance.  But to be honest, the training has all gone to pot, and I've been injured, so I have been lucky to finish each marathon.  None of them were good times and I think they have knocked my confidence a bit.

    I have three more marathon distance events left this year, including Abingdon which I hope will be my qualifier. I have just quit work so I will have more time to train, and more energy as the stress of my job was really sapping my energy, so with a bit of luck I will be able to give Abingdon a good go.

    As a first time entrant, I can't enter until later in the year, so I should have a better idea of whether I am capable before making the decision to enter.

  • Slow DuckSlow Duck ✭✭✭
    Fido - Eindhoven sounds really good. I can't do it this year as I'm doing the Liverpool marathon on the same day, but I'll add it to my "to do" list...

    Agree with Keith about tapered flat marathons - my thoughts are that they're useful for getting into a higher starting pen (especially crucial on the Down runs) but that in terms of the Comrades stats you might want to consider yourself one pen back to get a more realistic prediction...

    Gobi - I think you're spot on about "if you're training is going well..." - I ran a PB for a marathon with no taper at Brighton this year... and went on to take 45 minutes off my best Up time...

    SuperCaz - entries open on 1 September for everyone...

  • SuperCazSuperCaz ✭✭✭
    Interesting Slow Duck.  That's not what the web site said when I checked a month or so ago.  Maybe they changed it.  Thanks for the heads up, as I would be gutted if I missed out purely because I got the wrong date!
  • Slow DuckSlow Duck ✭✭✭
    SuperCaz - this is the upto date announcement on entries for 2012...http://www.comrades.com/predefined.aspx?Page=5491
  • Keith LKeith L ✭✭✭
    Definitely won''t be running Comrades in 2012 now as have been accepted to run the Brathay Challenge so thats ten days in May taken care of and a bit of recovery afterwards image
  • Any other London folk doing JP Morgan tonight? If so, enjoy the crowds. At least it looks like it won't be wet.
  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    I shall enter in Spetember then :¬)

    Good luck Keith I know a lot of people who have done it. Not something I have any desire to do though.
  • Keith L - Good luck with that and I hope you have an injury free buildup to it.
    What you don't think that it would be good Comrades training? You'd have a couple of weeks to recover. Just think of it as doing all your long runs in a week, rather than a couple of months. Oh wait, you did that this year anyway!!
  • Carmen23Carmen23 ✭✭✭
    hello all!!

    I need a big virtual slap and push to get me off my massive and growing lard ass and go for a run! i have NO motivation but also want to - bizarre!

    So speedy, a higher starting place is more important for the down - just cos it's longer? i'm already panicking about not being fit enough to do an autumn marathon! i really want to do eindhoven -- work says they'll let us know our rota asap...

    supercaz - we all persuaded you yet?

    keith - i have no idea what you've signed up for in may so will go and google it, but i'm sure it's something impressive! good luck!!
  • SuperCazSuperCaz ✭✭✭

    Carmen, I am going to do Comrades, but the question is whether it will be 2012 or 2014 (I have another big commitment for 2013 so it won't be that year).

    I've been suffering with a hip problem that has required a lot of treatment.  I can still run marathons but I need to take them a lot slower at the moment. That's one of the reasons why I am worried about the cut off.  I am doing a marathon as a training run in about a month so I will see how that goes before committing.

    Hubby was looking into flights last night.  He's talking about going along for a holiday even if we don't enter this time.  We want to use some air miles so we need to book the flights very early on.

  • Dobrautra, or however you say good evening in Russian (you'd have thought I would have learnt that by now). Back home and within reach of the internet. Still not running, getting p-eed off now. I have patience, but....come on!! So, Carmen, I have an excuse image.

    That said, yesterday I thought I was never going to get the opportunity for anything again as 7 of us got stuck in a lift for an hour, and losing the electricity supply also meant having no air ventilation too. None of us knew the calcs for how long it takes 7 people to consume a limited air supply, but we didn't want to find out. All I can say is that it was crowded, it was dark, it was hot and got hotter, and there was absolutely no way out without help, and we had no idea if that was coming. You certainly learn about your ability to keep a lid on your fear, and dream of running through wide open spaces with lots of fresh wind on your face!

    Yeah, Speedy, what's this about higher starting pens? I have a vague recollection about you saying it before and it being about the roads in PMB being narrower so it taking longer to get over the start line. Have I recalled that correctly or just made it up?

    Supercaz: hope the hip problem sorts itself out. Fizz had hip problems too but got it sorted and did well (VERY well, all things considered if you read her race report).

    Carmen: if you come and do Eindhoven we can have a husky reunion! I can pay for you. Already done the deed for Fido. I'll come and watch and hand out your drinks since it is in-between Berlin and Snowdonia marathons for me. Mind you, in view of my current pitiful running conidtion I may not be doing either. image

    Right, off to see how difficult it is to get a second passport. Enjoy your running, all those who are.

  • Slow DuckSlow Duck ✭✭✭
    Carmen, Slotwin is spot on - getting in a good pen is more important on the Down because the streets at the start in Pietermaritzburg are a lot narrower than in Durban. So not only are the seeding pens a bit narrower and longer than for the Up run (which means it takes longer to get across the start line unless you're at the front of pen A), the streets are a lot more crowded for a lot longer.

    Slotwin - how horrible - I hate using lifts - that's exactly the sort of scenario I fear (in my imagination it also involves being stuck in with people with bad hygiene and flatulence) - hope you're ok...

    SuperCaz - hope your hip gets sorted quickly.

    Keith will be running a marathon a day for ten days in a row! Good luck!
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