Marathon Pace

So I've knocked out a 38:38 10k which apparently puts me just under the 3hrs mark for a marathon according to the calculators.

Why then can I not hold 7 m/m for more than a few miles before I'm going over 85% MHR?

I did 10 miles today at the around the above pace and was blowing out my hoop by the end of it. Am I alone or is anyone else having the same issues?

Comments

  • Pammie*Pammie* ✭✭✭

    Could be lots of reasons though 10k and marathon are both endurance events they are also miles apart if you excuse the pun image

    Have you done any marathons before?

    Whats your pb for a half marathon if you've done one?

    Could be you are most suited to 10ks or maybe just short of specific marathon training

    Whats your current training like?

  • do you know how the calculators work? just because you can run that time for 10k doesnt mean you could enter a marathon and run sub 3hrs without the required training

    a sustained run at mp can be quite hard in the midst of training. i dont use a hrm but off your 10k time, a few 7min miles shouldnt be particularly taxing if you're feeling strong

  • Fair points.

    Pammie - Never ran a half or a full. I do 50 miles a week including a LSR of 14 miles, a tempo (10k pace) and 800m intervals.

    CE - I've heard that said before but like you stated, you would think  I should be able to do this. What do mean by 'a few'?

    I have noticed I lose a lot of water through sweat and  this 'cardiac drift' appears to get me too. 

    Like you said though... maybe I'm just not cut out for distance image

  • The calculators can be quite optimistic. They are decent pointers for what is possible, but a marathon is a long way and basically that gives a lot more time for all sorts things to go wrong during the race.

    Secondly, at the start of marathon training it's not unusual to find marathon pace quite tough. I realise you're quite fast with that 38min 10k, but still, you're trying to do 10 miles at marathon pace at the *start* of marathon training? A lot of plans work up to doing 10 miles @ m.p. at the *end* of it! At your level you might be working up to something like doing a run which includes 14 miles mp within it, perhaps, but still...

    Er so basically just because you find it hard now doesn't mean there's no chance you'll be able to do 26 miles at that pace (or within spitting distance of that pace) come race day.
  • 85% MHR sounds about right for marathon pace.

  • You've basically specialised in 10ks then with that training.
    The calculator assumes you're equally well trained for the marathon.

    Sub 3 would be a stretch especially if youve not raced even a half yet.

    Try racing a half and you will get a better idea of how you will fare at a full ? It's hard to predict times from a race that's less than 1/4 of the length.
  • Lots of good points, but one minor question: have you established your max heart rate through a test, or did you stick with the formula? (Mine is about 20 beats different from the formula...)
  • Pammie*Pammie* ✭✭✭

    Another question have you a marathon in mind, and are you following a specific schedule?

    How long is your tempo run strictly speaking it should be the pace you could race for an hour all rested and tapered so possibly you are running this too fast which will effect the following sessions each session no matter how hard it is you want to be recovered well enough to do the next one

  • Sorry for not getting back but whilst most of you have been enjoying the sunny weather I have been at work image

    Fido2dogs - I see your point. I just had presumed the calculators to be more accurate...

    Cougie - I have def specialised in 10k but getting utterly sick of the 'have you ever done a marathon' brigade and thought I should have a crack. I have the PSUK 10 mile road race in Stevenage in September which is a touch longer and may give me an indicator.

     Rennur - Granted I haven't done THE max test but have raced enough to know that the 220- age pretty much covers me as I have only hit my 'max' once.

    Pammie - don't have one in mind but would clearly prefer a flat one out of late spring and summer to avoid the heat which ruins me. I mix up the tempos but usually between 4 and 6 miles and its always too fast if I'm honest. I feel that if I'm not left hanging by the end of a hard session I haven't worked hard enough. I guess liek most of us we want to be consideraly better than we are likely to ever be!

  • The training to hit those predictions will be totally diffferent, ofcourse you cant hold 7m/m for that long..... at the moment but with mara specific training it would come. Its a long road(some bad puns in this thread) and tbh i'd think twice about taking it on just to have the answer of "yes ive done a marathon". Did you ever really want to do one? If not then knock it on the head and continue to enjoy your 10k's.

  • I hate running marathons. Until afterwards when I forget the pain and think it was quite good after all.
  • Pammie*Pammie* ✭✭✭

    You can't guarantee the weather though even marathons held in april /may can be hot so always hard to judge

    4-6 miles @10k pace seems a bit hard better to save that intensity for races. You an still work hard in a session its just training smartly.

    But you have to do whats good for you and what you want maybe look at doing a half think someone mentioned that then reassess from there

  • You know what.. I hate them too! And of course Eddie Izzard has made a total mockery out of the whole affair too. I just feel pressure that I should like and want to do them.

    Thank you for all your comments and advice. Running eh, what's it all about image

  • hows eddie izzard made a mockery out of them?

    i think the fastest he did was 5hours - wont be many east africans losing sleep!

  • There are those with the uneducated opinion that you haven't acheived much having completed your Marathon given that an middleaged, overweight comedian cracked off 43 of them in a row.
  • if someone cant appreciate the difference of an elite running 4:45mm and a fat man running 11:30mm  i probably woulnt spend a lot of time talking to them about marathon running image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Copout...until you train fully for a marathon, your "MP" is just a training tool. Mine comes out as 6.19 pace image I couldn't hold that for a marathon as i think that would be about 2hr 45. I don't run beyond 16miles see.

    First time i started doing MP training, it sounded a very tough session, but now 7miles at MP is a doable, medium hard session. I find a much harder session is  45mins alternating in 5min bursts between MP and HMP!

    I'm sure if you trained properly for a marathon, a few weeks before the race you'd comfortably be able to do 10-12miles at MP in preparation in training.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Cop-out wrote (see)
    There are those with the uneducated opinion that you haven't acheived much having completed your Marathon given that an middleaged, overweight comedian cracked off 43 of them in a row.


    As noble, and for good causes as Izzard's running was, any average reasonably fit person in the priviledged position of having a support team, and not having to work, could do 43marathons back to back if there were no pace objectives.

    Have a go at running 11.30 miling and see how incredibly slow that is.

    However, i know the type of people you're referring to...i have a few at my work who see me run, and ask why don't I do marathons. Then they point to some old boy in the office who's turned out in about 5 1/2hours as an example of why i should be doing oneimage

    Even worse are the people..and I've actually seen a few forumites write this..who think you're not a proper runner until you've run a marathon!

  • Lol the fixation with the marathon is abit ridiculous to say the least, i guess non runners just assume its further and therefore harder - plus you have the whole psuedo mythology, charity fanfare and status posturing of doing one. There's a few people in my life that respond to any talk of running with....so whens the next marathon as if thats the only distance worthy of consideration! I've run 3 marathons and can say easily the 5km i did this last weekend was a much tougher challenge mentally, but tell the average non runner you ran a 5km and they'll assume its something any1 can do.

    As for marathon training, i remember feeling totally destroyed the first time i ran 13 miles in training....it seemed totally inconceivable to me how i could hold marathon pace for a marathon...but with a full schedule it comes...just a question of patience - but to really enjoy a marathon i think you have to buy into it as a target for you and not others.

  • Stevie G - cheers for that input. In many ways you've cleared up the OP. I just needed to hear someone else say it was a tough training pace as I asumed that if you should be able to do the pace for 26.2 miles, 7-10 should be a breeze image Regarding your 45 MP/HMP session, I'm not even giving it another seconds thought image

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