Iron distance mara times

Can a few people let me know what the difference their mara times are between doing just a mara and doing it in an iron distance tri. What i would like to know is how much longer it takes you guys so i can get a rough idea what times i should be hitting, for example if you do a 4hour mara it may take you 6 in a iron tri. i dont want fast times. In last years Outlaw i see a few pirates came in the run at around the 6 hour mark, what time would you do just a mara in.

and yes i know everyones a little different - i just dont want to be training for a 4.30 mara and coming outside the cutoff on race dayimage

Comments

  • VLM 2010 3.49

    Outlaw mara 2011 4.43

    But I trained totally differently...i used a run/walk stratergy for the Outlaw...you can't train the same way for an iron distance mara as you would a standalone IMO.

  • VLM 2010 (Apr) 4.01
    Roth mara 2010 (Jul) 4.40

    I did VLM off my IM training with just a few extra long runs thrown in. I also used walk/ran for Roth...
  • General rule of thumb is a well paced IM will see u do 20-30 mins slower. Also depends on bike strength conditions etc.

    I'm the worst person to judge of - only done one standalone marathon, in 2006 and did 4:07 at Austria IM this year but can run 1:25 half consistently.
  • Mine is 27 mins slower, so I fit Doozer's model.

  • My best times are 40 mins apart.

    If you want to minimise the gap between the two the key is bike training rather than run training, although that might sound counterintuitive.
  • What is the ratio for the run/walk?

  • Whatever ratio you find that suits you.

    There is testimony in ultra running training manuals that suggest that 25/5 is the best ratio but this is for ultras and doesn't tend to map well onto IM marathon experience from anecdotal evidence I've read.

    IM run/walks that I have seen (anecdotally rather than in training texts) tend to be much shorter so either 8/2 or 4/1.  Another very common approach is to walk the aid stations to ensure you get what you need into your body.

    Another pirate tends to do a counting thing - 100 steps running to 100 steps walking - a couple of people have had a go with that strategy before.

    I think run/walk is quite personal and I'd have a go to see what best suits you in training. 

    Also, try to start the run/walk before you are so shattered that you can't concentrate.  Again, in stand alone marathon running, the run/walk recommendation is to do this from the very start, even when you are fresh, to get into a routine.  However, most of us are reluctant to do this. So, for example, maybe think about running the first lap and run/walking the other three (assuming a four lap IM run course!)  Have an idea of what you want to do before you set off so that run/walk isn't simply a coping mechanism for when you bonk/can no longer run as this will likely have a negative impact.

  • An hour or more difference for me ;-(
  • Blimey - my stand alone marathon time is 5:40.  I'm going to have to be strong on the bike at Outlaw if I'm going to get my marathon in the 6:10 I'd sort of got in mind. Its going to be a long day.......image
  • Cheers M.ouse, my first IM next year. Brain is in sponge mode.
  • excellent guys   thnx for replies and all the extra info on stratedgy, if i look at training for a 4 to 4.30 i should have a half respectable time, assuming that i get through the bike image

    atm my half mara is at 1.50 so loads of time to improve

     thanks again

  • Don't forget the IM marathon is a different beast to a normal marathon.  Your legs will be knackered after the bike so the best advice I can give you is get used to running at a steady pace when your legs are tired.  Don't worry about speedwork, just focus on strength and endurance.
  • Nutrition is one of the main factors you need to get right

    VLM 2009 3:48

    IMUK 5:50

    Off the bike I was able to do some 10 min miles but after 6 miles my stomach was cramping badly and I had to walk most of the last 20 miles, I put this down to not getting the balance right on the bike between the gatorade on the course and balancing that with water, gels and general nutrition

  • VLM 2011 - 3:22:38
    Outlaw 2011 - 4:30 and change.

    I got into a run/walk early in the run as I was struggling, but later realised that keeping my momentum going was a better idea. Retrospectively maybe I could have gone faster. Next time... image
  • Next time indeed!

    Stratford 11, 3.53
    Outlaw 11, 4.39

    Was disappointed I couldn't do sub 4.30
  • it depends how much you leave on the bike....

    my best difference is just over 50 mins, worst is 90mins. a certain forumite has been known to do a negative split (run slower than the bike) but he always hammers the bike.......

    it's down to bike, experience and psychology
  • SlowEngineer wrote (see)

    VLM 2011 - 3:22:38

    Outlaw 2011 - 4:30 and change. I got into a run/walk early in the run as I was struggling, but later realised that keeping my momentum going was a better idea. Retrospectively maybe I could have gone faster. Next time... image

    hmmm, I did 3:21 this year at Edinburgh, and was hoping to do sub 4 hours at Wales image

    TBH it's unlikely anyway as ive done few long runs since the marathon, and am pish on the bike! Oh well!

  • You are such a fibber about your biking Shaun image
  • haha based on what? Maybe I'm being relative to my running level, but after 100 miles on Saturday I went running for an hour at a pace no where near 4hrs/marathon

  • and as each day goes by I get more and more scared of the wales bike route!! image

    I'm going to short course triathlon next year - and im going to get a dickhead hat, tri bike and everything image

  • My difference between Brighton Marathon and the Outlaw was only 26 minutes.  Walked the aid stations and kept a steady pace for the rest. 

    Hope this helps image

  • Shaun, I would say that I gave too much on the bike - if you pace yourself for the whole event (which is easier with more experience) then your marathon time will be more respectable than mine image

    I'd not done enough distance on the bike really, and so initially feared the cutoff - to compound this I'd lacked in running off the bike. It sounds like you're more prepared than I was! image
  • Scary to think how much faster you would have gone if you'd actually done some training SE image
  • SlowEngineer wrote (see)
    Shaun, I would say that I gave too much on the bike - if you pace yourself for the whole event (which is easier with more experience) then your marathon time will be more respectable than mine image I'd not done enough distance on the bike really, and so initially feared the cutoff - to compound this I'd lacked in running off the bike. It sounds like you're more prepared than I was! image


    How much did you push on the bike? What was your time compared to what you had expected?

    Sound advice, hopefully ill take it all onboard come race day image

  • really interesting conversation....

    i guess balancing how hard you push the bike against conserving the legs is really what IM comes down to

  • I agree MZ.  It's all very well smashing it on the bike, but if you end up doing a 7 hour marathon as a result I think it detracts from the point of the IM.

    Good pacing in the bike means being able to remain strong in the run, and ultimately get a better time overall as a result, and I assume being able to enjoy the experience more

  • My first IM mara was 5.11 off a 3.58 best for that year.

    2nd was 4.29 off a best of 3.47 that year.

    Training was better second time but the bike course was also flatter, this got me onto the run a lot fresher.

  • Being a strong stand alone runner does not always translate to being a good IM runner.

    If you look at Rosey - who by his own admission is not what you would call a fast runner, and definatley not in the CRAB or Cheerful Dave running category.  However he is able to run stronger following a hard bike than these guys because he is a good 'triathlon runner'.    A lot of this comes down to years of training and experience, but also a lot of bike strength that allows him to have fresher legs for the run, and the fact he can handle the hurt locker for longer than most.

    Its about getting over the line as fast as possible anyway, not about what splits you do! (says the person most likely to hit T2 first and blow up on the run hehe

  • Funkin says I may post his times, 'cos he's a lazy git image dictated by himself:

    "Agree with Doozer re: running not always translating to good IM mara times.

    2009:  VLM 3:19, IMCH 3:47

    2010: Roth 3:35

    2011: Brighton Mara 3:25 (ill, hoping for 3:10)

    I therefore deduce I need a long warm-up, as difference between stand-alone PB and IM Mara PB only 16 minutes"

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