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Riots...
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it's definitely got to be time for water cannons and force now, those armoured police vehicles seemed to work, bring in more of them and army armoured vehicles if necessary. this has got to be brought to a stop. and why aren't they bringing in curfews and dispersal orders. this is absolutely appalling and totally inexcusable. I have the misfortune of workign with a bloke who knows people involved. albeit it not directly. a friend of his was receiving photos of all the stolen goods and footgae from the riots. he thought it was funny, was excited about the possibility of it kicking off again tonight, and said he would do the looting as that was ok
time to get heavy with these twunts
Secondly, and this is going to be an unpopular view- but hey, debate never killed anyone.
These idiots don't have a coherent political agenda but the context of these riots is steeped in politics. The kind of politics that leaves sink estates to rot, kids to go feral, measures you by not what you do but what you can own, pushes a philosophy of rampant individualism and consumerism with a 'fuck you' attitude to those who don't make the grade and then has the rank stupidity to cut the very forces of law and order that keep the majority of us safe in our beds and instead of 'real' police with 'real' powers foists upon us PCSOs and private security.
Then people throw their hands up in disbelief and say 'How can this happen?'. My questions are - 'How could it not happen?' and 'What the hell did you expect?'
IMHO there are plenty of people excluded and genuinely "disenfrenchised" and DON'T behave like this. There are plenty of poor people in this country and it wouldn't occur to then to pelt rocks at police cars, set busses on fire, set people's houses on fire and loot the shops.
These people still have access to free health care, free education etc. I spent too many years doing probation home visits to know that these people are not without means. I saw DVD players and X-boxes in their houses years before I was ever able to buy one.
The difference is their inflated sense of entitlement that makes these people think they "deserve" stuff without putting the effort in, without doing an hours work or a penny in tax. They deserve to have a car so steal one, never mind no licence, no insurance etc etc etc. All the rights with non of the responsibilities.
There are no consequences for their behaviour - that's the problem. Custody now is nothing than a moderate occupational hazard, providing three meals and an opportunity to catch up with some mates and spend the day playing pool.
The brainless twunts who are 'rioting' now do not even know who Mark Duggan is!!!!!!!!!!! For them it's just an exciting week and an opportune moment to do some free shopping. I feel sorry for Mark Duggan's parents, that his death has become associated with all this carnage because I'm pretty sure that's not what they thought "justice" would look like.
WTF...??
So this is all justified and nobody is allowed to have an opinion because you might have once cheated a little on your tax return??
It's this attempt at intellectualising and justifying what is essentially brainless and unjusitifyable.
Let's see them burn down your house and see how you feel then.
Corinth, I'd suggest that a proportion of the parents were lying drunk and/or off their faces on drugs and not giving a flying f**k where their kids were.
Totally agree with your second point though.
Too right they're not my equal!
Heard on the radio that the rioters are breaking into people's homes at random and nicking stuff, while folk are sleeping.
Also heard that they're communicating via Blackberry messenger because there's no trace on the sender's blackberry of any messages sent. Surely someone could ask Blackberry to remove that facility for a while?
Last year a young kid was killed locally (Aamir Siddiqi)because the brainless twats in their local turf wars got him mixed up with someone else. Mistaken identity. Oh whoopsy!!
I bet this happens left right & centre.
Who riots about true injustice? No one.
You could understand it a little more if they were rioting with a "cause". They haven't. They are just stealing (a better word than looting) from and burning shops of locals who have spent years building their businesses and working damned hard to make something out of life.
Why do they need to set fire to an indeendent furniture shop? They don't. They are just doing it for fun which is what saddens me even more than any "anti-capitalist" or "anti-police" issue.
Send in police "snatch squads" to take some of the rioters off of the streets as soon as they start the next one. That will give others something to think about!!!
There was someone on the radio this morning saying she was burgled at 4am and woke to find someone in her bedroom stealing her handbag. Must have been terrifying.
I thought I read that blackberry were suspending the message service unitl it calms down.
This just totally upsets me and is appalling - "society" gone mad. Where is any respect for anything?
Get the armed forces in.
Time for martial law - eg anyone out after 11 is arrested. Yes it's anti-everything and affects everybody but this is currently a lawless society and the mob rules.
I used to live in Beckton, east London, on a new build estate that bordered local housing association. The kids that lived there were scum, seriously. And I mean kids, 10-13 or so. They tormented me and others who lived on the development, wrecked cars, broke windows, etc. They knew the police wouldn't do anything and the local authority was trying to encourage people to move there so wasn't issuing lots of ASBOs. I was always on the phone to the police, who weren't terribly useful. Then one Saturday night, a cop-car patrolling the development caught some kids up to no good. One of the kids phoned his parents and within minutes the place was full of angry people - the parents shouting about how the police were harrassing the kids, it was disrespectful, how it wasn't their fault, blah blah blah. It escalated, more people arrived, more police, and before we knew what had happened, the kids and their parents were streaming around our development, throwing rocks. anything they could get their hands on. It was terrifying.
I remembered this last night watching the news. My view (and I'm usually a lefty liberal) is that there will always be a section of society that can only express itself through violence. And if that violence is directed at people who have more than them, so much the better. This is not a community with justifiable grievances, this is a community with greed.
Well that didn't work *G*
Didn't really mean it, I was trying to make a point that people at the bottom of the heap constantly get messages that they don't deserve stuff. Some of those x-boxes you saw might have been paid for via a job on the side or something. But I bet many were just because the people cut their budget to the bone in other areas. Talking as someone who's income has improved I've found it incredibly easy to spend much more than I used to, just by getting a nice sandwich for dinner each day, buying some smoothies, buying a book first hand instead of second hand etc etc. I bet you could have saved for an x-box if you'd really wanted to, and it's not fair to assume your clients had x-boxes through ilicit means.
It seems you were too self-confident to feel it. But believe me as someone who's been there, if you get messages like that thrown at you all the time it does effect you.
Anyone found guilty of theft, violent disorder related to these riots should have the 50% tariff removed and be required to serve the full sentence. Also they should have all legal aid rights removed.
They should be then tagged for a further year and be forced to wear an high viz uniform marked " Looter" "Rioter" or "Scum"
A former bf of my sister turned down job after job because he thought he was 'better than that'. He also had an inflated sense of entitlement, he 'deserved' a night out and 'deserved' a car. What he actually deserved was a slap.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear... I was their supervising probation officer, and no those things had not been acquired through earnings from a part-time job or other legitimate means I assure you!
These people are brazen and will happily admit to handling stolen goods, stolen stuff swapped for drug debts etc etc.
Just as much as I would supervise people for drink driving (no licence, no insurance) who would drive (despite recent disqualification in court), park on double yellow lines outside the probation office and then have an attitude when challenged about it. This is after you've had the argument that 9am is really too early for an appointment!!
You honestly have no idea.
Disagree. Horrible though this is there's many who wouldn't have been involved unless their mates were, it's going to happen anyway, etc. People doing this kind of acts in normal times are worse in my opinion. I'm sure there's a few people involved who deserve the treatment you are talking about. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to find that many of the fires were started by the same person moving around and using the cover of the riots. And there are people who normally steal who've used the cover too. They are worse criminals than those caught up in the moment.
Nam, the majority of people who fill the lowest strata of society will not be rioting - the people out there will be the foolish young and a large proportion of the criminal element who normally 'work the corners' (Drugs). I totally agree with your assessment of the sense of entitlement some of these people have (Where do you think that comes from?).
Civil society is based upon a balancing act; people need to 'buy into' it for it to work - if you get a large proportion of people excluding themselves (Or being excluded) and going down the route of lawlessness then your governing classes are getting something very wrong. (What might that be?)
There will always be crime, there will always be lawlessness; but riots and large scale looting are surprisingly rare. When they do happen you cannot ignore the conditions under which they happen - that's all I'm saying. It's like fire prevention - you only get fires when the right conditions are there - same with riots
One of the elements has already been identified - policing on the cheap; cuts in numbers and quality. There are many others.